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Author Topic: Border cities, proximity to major cities  (Read 13946 times)

Zack Bass

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2003, 12:09:11 pm »


I'm in perfect agreement with Zion about not wanting to commute to downtown Boston.  But he suggested that the #s posted at the top of this thread were primarily to reflect "entertainment" and "perk" value of MSAs.  That is what I said was cynical.


Maybe so.  I bet he just made the same mistake I made.
I've heard lots of people talk about moving to places like Washington, D.C. and mention that they can do this or that in New York City.  Not once have they mentioned actually intending to work in New York City unless they intend to live pretty close.  In fact, when I lived in Amherst people used to talk about going to Boston for this or that, but they never commuted to a job there.

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guy777

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2003, 12:13:00 pm »

Quote
My father commutes 127 miles each way (254 miles round-trip)

That is fine, but I said, "many people not all people". Most people would not be willing to travel to work that far including me.
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Zack Bass

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2003, 12:14:18 pm »


Most of us city folks would gladly move to a much smaller city if we could still travel to a large MSA by driving 1-2 hours.  I happen to enjoy many things about big cities and it will be hard to cut back on them


Try to think back to the time you wrote this.  Did you have in mind "entertainment value and other perks", or commuting daily for employment?

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freedomroad

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2003, 01:49:43 pm »

FreedomRoad,   I am sorry but I have to laugh a little at the filters you put this analysis through.

Also, the whole concept of an MSA is somewhat artificial.  In terms of population and commerce, the Boston MSA is many times larger than the Fort Collins MSA.  Additionally, the boundaries are arbitrary.  Manchester is 53 miles from Boston, and Fort Collins is 64 miles from Denver, not a big difference, yet Manchester is considered part of the Boston MSA, and Fort Collins is not.

Also, if one considers Denver to be "near" Wyoming, then one must also consider Providence, Burlington, and Portland to be "near" NH.

Well, there are stats that say Ft. Collins is part of the Denver MSA, but most do not.

Denver is around 1 hour 40 min from Wyoming.  The problem with Providence, Burlington, ad Porland is that they are not major MSAs.  If you are going to say the are, you also need to count the Billings, Rapid City, Greeley, and Boulder MSAs as being near Wyoming.  Of course, these are not Major MSAs, either.

Also, about Ft. Collins, it terms of new projected jobs, it is a major MSA.  For example, it expects to create more future jobs in a short period than all of NH.

I agree that Boston is larger than Ft. Collins.  If you include southern NH as being part of the Boston MSA, than the Boston MSA is quite a bit larger than the Denver MSA; however, Denver is still a major MSA.

Also, about Boise, yes, it is a growing city and had a nice market, however, it is not as big as Spokane, which is not even a Major MSA.
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2003, 03:08:09 pm »

Also, about Boise, yes, it is a growing city and had a nice market, however, it is not as big as Spokane, which is not even a Major MSA.
Major cities, "Major MSA's", major metropolitan areas.  What was the question?

Yes, Boise is slightly smaller than Spokane,WA.  Within the city limits of Boise, Yahoo! lists *only* 100 dining establishments, 57 bars and pubs, 12 Fast Food restaurants, a major regional/international airport, 37 gas stations, 7 car dealers, 12 medical centers, 44 hotels, 10 golf courses, 19 libraries, 38 grocery stores...

My contention is that no matter how you present the story,  only a certain slant is presented here:  when speaking of population issues, you suggest that Idaho is not-in-this-lifetime possible for the FSP because it has too many people, its cities are too big for us to even get a handle upon, there are so many people, etc... but then when it comes to examining what each state's cities may offer us as far as jobs, trade and comforts and ammenities, suddenly you say that big over-powering city of Boise is not even a proper MSA, it can't even be considered, it offers us "nothing".

I completely agree that Wyoming offers us a tremendous advantage for its population, but those MSA's that are out of state do present a bit of trouble in selling them as places to find jobs and regular offerings because the commute is so far in snowy weather.  And if they are so close, then there is also the issue of 'creeping statism'  and statist immigration so often promoted.  I am not saying you are wrong, but it kind of has to be one way or the other, not both as long as certain states shine.

Quote
My father commutes 127 miles each way (254 miles round-trip)

That is fine, but I said, "many people not all people". Most people would not be willing to travel to work that far including me.

Now read the second part to my statement, notice I said that this particular 254 mile commute involves 'rarely so much as a single snowflake' and compared that to all of our snowy states-- I was actually reinforcing your point that such long commutes are not only difficult, but impractical in our chosen states.

I know, I once commuted 42 miles each way to work, and it was a terrible drain on my schedule!

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« Last Edit: July 07, 2003, 03:11:48 pm by exitus... »
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Give me some men who are stout-hearted men Who will fight for the right they adore. Start me with ten, who are stout-hearted men And I'll soon give you ten thousand more...--O. Hammerstein

freedomroad

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2003, 03:11:32 pm »

Also, about Boise, yes, it is a growing city and had a nice market, however, it is not as big as Spokane, which is not even a Major MSA.
Major cities, "Major MSA's", major metropolitan areas.  What was the question?

Yes, Boise is slightly smaller than Spokane,WA.  Within the city limits of Boise, Yahoo! lists *only* 100 dining establishments, 57 bars and pubs, 12 Fast Food restaurants, a major regional/international airport, 37 gas stations, 7 car dealers, 12 medical centers, 44 hotels, 10 golf courses, 19 libraries, 38 grocery stores...

My contention is that no matter how you present the story,  only a certain slant is presented here:  when speaking of population issues, you suggest that Idaho is not-in-this-lifetime possible for the FSP because it has too many people, its cities are too big for us to even get a handle upon, there are so many people, etc... but then when it comes to examining what each state's cities may offer us as far as jobs, trade and comforts and ammenities, suddenly that big over-powering city of Boise is not even a proper MSA, it can't even be considered, it offers us "nothing".

I am not attacking Boise and this has nothing to do with WY.

Boise is not a Major MSA, it is very simple.

Cheyenne is not a Major MSA.  However, Denver and Salt Lake City are major MSAs.  Boston is a major MSA.  Philly and DC are major MSAs.  
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2003, 03:16:38 pm »

O.K. then I will answer your own rhetorical question,
Quote
How will the Free State become a regional business leader if there are no near-by large MSAs?

Easy:  through increased freedom.  We can do without those big oversize statist MSA's if we have our own good-sized city to start-out with.

(I actually agree with you that Cheyenne would be a great way to start, but many "big-city" people don't seem to want to tackle it, so I offer Boise as an example of an alternate)

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Give me some men who are stout-hearted men Who will fight for the right they adore. Start me with ten, who are stout-hearted men And I'll soon give you ten thousand more...--O. Hammerstein
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