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Author Topic: Border cities, proximity to major cities  (Read 13948 times)

Adam Selene

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Border cities, proximity to major cities
« on: July 06, 2003, 11:42:18 pm »

#1 Delaware

Wilmington is 31.5 miles from Philadelphia

#2 New Hampshire

Manchester is 53.3 miles from Boston

#3 Wyoming

Cheyenne is 47.2 miles from Fort Collins and 102.9 miles from Denver
Evanston is 82.7 miles from Salt Lake City

#4 Idaho

Coeur d'Alene is 32.9 miles from Spokane
Moscow is 10.0 miles from Pullman and 86.8 miles from Spokane

#5 North Dakota
#6 South Dakota

Grand Forks (ND), Fargo (ND) and Sioux Falls (SD) are all near the Minnesota border, are all more than 250 miles from Minneapolis.

#7 Maine
#8 Vermont

#9 Montana
#10 Alaksa


The miles are driving miles (taken from MSN Mappoint), not the way the bird flies.

I ranked WY higher than ID because of the greater importance of Denver and Salt Lake versus Spokane.

I ranked ND and SD higher than ME and VT because their cities are much closer to the border.
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freedomroad

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2003, 02:52:31 am »

#1 Delaware

Wilmington is 31.5 miles from Philadelphia

#2 New Hampshire

Manchester is 53.3 miles from Boston

#3 Wyoming

Cheyenne is 47.2 miles from Fort Collins and 102.9 miles from Denver
Evanston is 82.7 miles from Salt Lake City

#4 Idaho

Coeur d'Alene is 32.9 miles from Spokane
Moscow is 10.0 miles from Pullman and 86.8 miles from Spokane

#5 North Dakota
#6 South Dakota

Grand Forks (ND), Fargo (ND) and Sioux Falls (SD) are all near the Minnesota border, are all more than 250 miles from Minneapolis.

#7 Maine
#8 Vermont

#9 Montana
#10 Alaksa


The miles are driving miles (taken from MSN Mappoint), not the way the bird flies.

I ranked WY higher than ID because of the greater importance of Denver and Salt Lake versus Spokane.

I ranked ND and SD higher than ME and VT because their cities are much closer to the border.


This is very important to some people.  I would go so far as to just look at Major MSAs.  Cities like Philly, Boston, and Denver.  Only 3 of the candidate states, DE, NH, and WY are very close to major MSAs.

Most of us city folks would gladly move to a much smaller city if we could still travel to a large MSA by driving 1-2 hours.  I happen to enjoy many things about big cities and it will be hard to cut back on them (via airplanes, all of the states are near large cities).

I am not saying this will change my vote in any way.  However, it is nice to know that if the project ends up in WY or NH there will be a large MSA near-by.  On the other hand, if the project ends up in a state like Montana, we will be very isolated from all large cities and forced to travel via airplanes.  This could really hurt MT in some people's eyes.  How will the Free State become a regional business leader if there are no near-by large MSAs?

With DE you have 3 near-by large MSAs.
With WY you have 2 near-by large MSAs.
With NH you have 1 near-by large MSA.
With the other states, nothing.

The above 3 states could experince great trade and regional power growth while none of the other states offer that to us.
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guy777

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2003, 10:38:59 am »

Quote
Cheyenne is 47.2 miles from Fort Collins and 102.9 miles from Denver
Evanston is 82.7 miles from Salt Lake City

Fort Collins is not a major city and I can't imagine many people traveling 164 miles a day to work for Salt Lake. For that matter, 206 miles a day to Denver.
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ZionCurtain

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2003, 10:45:22 am »

Quote
Cheyenne is 47.2 miles from Fort Collins and 102.9 miles from Denver
Evanston is 82.7 miles from Salt Lake City

Fort Collins is not a major city and I can't imagine many people traveling 164 miles a day to work for Salt Lake. For that matter, 206 miles a day to Denver.
To be honest I can't imagine anyone driving 106 miles a day to Boston either. I think the purpose of the post was to reflect access to major markets for entertainment value and other perks.
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guy777

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2003, 10:45:43 am »

Adam Selene, you seem pretty objective from your posts. Where do you live in Costa Rica if you don't mind me asking?
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Kelton Baker

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2003, 11:17:49 am »


Fort Collins is not a major city and I can't imagine many people traveling 164 miles a day to work for Salt Lake. For that matter, 206 miles a day to Denver.
My father commutes 127 miles each way (254 miles round-trip) between St.George, UT and Las Vegas, NV and has been doing so for over 11 years, and continues to make the drive several times a week even as he nears retirement.  It's OK, if you don't mind the gas and oil expenses and buying a new set of tires every year, and a new car every three.

--Of course, my father makes this commute and rarely sees so much as a single snowflake during the commute even during the middle of winter!!!,  --we can't say that about even one of our candidate states, they all have roads that are sometimes impassable until the snow plow comes through, then the salt-shaker truck ,then the second snow plow then the sanding truck, repeat steps 1-4.



With DE you have 3 near-by large MSAs.
With WY you have 2 near-by large MSAs.
With NH you have 1 near-by large MSA.
With the other states, nothing.

The above 3 states could experince great trade and regional power growth while none of the other states offer that to us.
FreedomRoad,   I am sorry but I have to laugh a little at the filters you put this analysis through.  "With the other states, nothing." ??? While Boise is a bit out by itself, it is the one of the largest and most busiest cities among our candidate states, it already offers us great trade and regional power growth because of its location as a major business hub yet is somewhat isolated from non-commerce influence by other large cities, it has far-and away the best airline service of any of our candidate states and it is actually located within state, unlike Boston, Salt Lake City, Denver, Philadelphia and other cities mentioned.  

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Karl

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2003, 11:28:13 am »

To be honest I can't imagine anyone driving 106 miles a day to Boston either. I think the purpose of the post was to reflect access to major markets for entertainment value and other perks.

Luckily, NH has enough jobs so that this isn't necissary for most people.  Besides, there are many jobs north of Boston, including hi-tech companies along I-95 and Highway 3 that are much closer to NH than downtown Boston that would cut said commute in half.

And no, the purpose of the post was not to reflect "perks" and "entertainment value" as you cynically claim, but to reflect job and business opportunities offered by major MSAs.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2003, 11:29:01 am by Karl »
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Karl

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2003, 11:43:13 am »

FreedomRoad,   I am sorry but I have to laugh a little at the filters you put this analysis through.

Also, the whole concept of an MSA is somewhat artificial.  In terms of population and commerce, the Boston MSA is many times larger than the Fort Collins MSA.  Additionally, the boundaries are arbitrary.  Manchester is 53 miles from Boston, and Fort Collins is 64 miles from Denver, not a big difference, yet Manchester is considered part of the Boston MSA, and Fort Collins is not.

Also, if one considers Denver to be "near" Wyoming, then one must also consider Providence, Burlington, and Portland to be "near" NH.

Manchester has an excellent regional airport, too.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2003, 11:45:31 am by Karl »
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ZionCurtain

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2003, 11:43:48 am »

To be honest I can't imagine anyone driving 106 miles a day to Boston either. I think the purpose of the post was to reflect access to major markets for entertainment value and other perks.

Luckily, NH has enough jobs so that this isn't necissary for most people.  Besides, there are many jobs north of Boston, including hi-tech companies along I-95 and Highway 3 that are much closer to NH than downtown Boston that would cut said commute in half.

And no, the purpose of the post was not to reflect "perks" and "entertainment value" as you cynically claim, but to reflect job and business opportunities offered by major MSAs.
How do you know that it was to reflect jobs and not other reasons? Maybe it was maybe it wasn't. I was not being cynical at all just giving my opinion.
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Mainer

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2003, 11:45:06 am »

What message will we be sending when after establishing our free state, we have to commute out of state to find work?  Isn't the goal to attract the businesses to come to us, instead of the other way around?
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Karl

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2003, 11:48:31 am »

How do you know that it was to reflect jobs and not other reasons? Maybe it was maybe it wasn't. I was not being cynical at all just giving my opinion.

That was the most obvious reason, and you knew it -- that is why you made a point to suggest a cynical non-obvious reason.  Give me a break.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2003, 11:49:14 am by Karl »
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Zack Bass

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2003, 11:51:29 am »

What message will we be sending when after establishing our free state, we have to commute out of state to find work?


No message at all.  Our goal isnot to send messages, only to gain Freedom.  We have no reason to do PR on the Statists in other areas.

Quote

Isn't the goal to attract the businesses to come to us, instead of the other way around?


If I were a business and I saw people in an area commuting far to find work, I'd see that an a great incentive to come in and exploit their need for local employment.
The Market works again!

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JonM

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2003, 11:51:58 am »

Quote
Cheyenne is 47.2 miles from Fort Collins and 102.9 miles from Denver
Evanston is 82.7 miles from Salt Lake City

Fort Collins is not a major city and I can't imagine many people traveling 164 miles a day to work for Salt Lake. For that matter, 206 miles a day to Denver.
To be honest I can't imagine anyone driving 106 miles a day to Boston either. I think the purpose of the post was to reflect access to major markets for entertainment value and other perks.

Many people commute from New Hampshire to Massachusetts to work.  I know a few that will go all the way into Boston, knew some who actually went south of it years ago.  Many don't drive into Boston.  Depending on how early they are willing to wake up, they either stop in Andover (not but a few miles from the border on I-93) and take the commuter rail into Boston, or if they're a late riser, they drive into Woburn and take the commuter rail from there (the parking lot in Andover tends to fill up early from what I am told).  And there are plenty of towns south and east of Manchester that make more sense to live in if you're going to work in Massachusetts.

Those who work on the major technology loop that is Route 128 (I-95 to those from out of town) generally come down Route 3, which has been undergoing a widening project for the last couple of years, or I-93.  The lucky ones will get off at I-495, where tech companies started locating some years ago.  128 can get a bit...crowded during rush hour, but nothing like what I've seen in California.  If you want to see what traffic is like at any particular moment: http://www.smartraveler.com/scripts/bosmap.asp?city=bos&cityname=Boston

Since there are so many alternate ways to get where you're going on secondary roads, checking that before heading out can at least keep you moving, if at a slower pace.  Owning a GPS can be very useful.

For those that love Broadway, New York City is, depending on how fast you're willing to risk going through Connecticut, and general traffic, a 3.5-5 hour drive.
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Zack Bass

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2003, 11:56:40 am »



How do you know that it was to reflect jobs and not other reasons? Maybe it was maybe it wasn't. I was not being cynical at all just giving my opinion.


That was the most obvious reason, and you knew it -- that is why you made a point to suggest a cynical non-obvious reason.


ZionCurtain's post did seem reasonable to me, not cynical.  It does seem inefficient to drive that far in the Boston area just for a job... why not move closer, if you're doing it that often?  And I am definitely not being cynical.

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Karl

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Re:Border cities, proximity to major cities
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2003, 12:01:32 pm »

ZionCurtain's post did seem reasonable to me, not cynical.  It does seem inefficient to drive that far in the Boston area just for a job... why not move closer, if you're doing it that often?  And I am definitely not being cynical.

I'm in perfect agreement with Zion about not wanting to commute to downtown Boston.  But he suggested that the #s posted at the top of this thread were primarily to reflect "entertainment" and "perk" value of MSAs.  That is what I said was cynical.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2003, 12:04:04 pm by Karl »
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