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Petition to show public support for an end to hypothetical (or historical) ban on Federally-recognized inter-racial marriages.  Very straight-fwd with no fine print  Would you sign it?

Yes
- 6 (100%)
No (And please expound on your reasoning)
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 5


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Author Topic: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages  (Read 12023 times)

dalebert

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Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« on: February 03, 2011, 01:43:25 pm »

Hypothetical situation:  The gubment still has a ban on Federally-recognized marriages for inter-racial couples.  Same-race couples can get married and have it be Federally-recognized for the usual things, including getting a green card for your partner (i.e. not being harassed by the gubment for simply being in the country boundaries), hospital visitation, tax-filing status, etc.

Someone has the petition right there and it's really convenient and will take maybe 30 seconds of your time.  Do you sign it?

Please expound on your reasoning.  For example:

1.
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I answered "No", but only because I never engage in politics and don't care about what laws are in place.  I just want to de-legitimize gubments in the eyes of the public.  People shouldn't get gubment marriages anyway.
2.
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No.  As long as gubment stays involved with marriages, the fewer the better because they cost tax money and ending the ban would be an expansion of government.  People shouldn't get gubment marriages anyway.
3.
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No.  This just isn't an important issue and I wouldn't waste my time on it, not even the 30 seconds it would take the sign the petition.  I'm more concerned with things like seat belt laws.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 01:49:35 pm by dalebert »
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dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 01:44:34 pm »

Keith C. inspired this poll..  His answer (and reasoning) in chat was 2, then 3, or both.  I'm not really sure.  It was quite confusing.  So I'm hoping he would be one of the first to expound on his reasoning here.










Edit by Freedomroad: I edited out the last name to protect the person's identity.  Sorry if that bothers anyone.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 10:59:08 am by Freedomroad »
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dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 02:06:21 pm »

You're obfuscating again Keith, in order to avoid giving a straight answer.  You're perfect for politics.

Here you go.  Forget the petition.  Let's say you're running for a gubment office and you've already stated you want gubment out of marriage.  You're asked by a reporter with a mic in your face and a camera on you, "Since it looks like gubment will be in the marriage business for a very long time, in the meantime, do you think the ban on inter-racial marriages should remain in place?  And if so, what is your reasoning?"

There, now give your principled libertarian answer.  Is there anything else I can do to get a clear answer on where you stand on the issue?  Or are you just practicing the artistry of ambiguous answers that will serve you well in the game of politics?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 02:14:55 pm by dalebert »
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dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 02:20:48 pm »

Do you mean a ban on inter-racial government marriage?  I don't support such a government ban.  There are not various human races, as there is only one human race.  Therefore, such a ban is impossible.

"Race" is obviously what the gubment decides as with anything they pass a law on.  Do you deny that they applied racial labels to people in the past and that they banned marriages between certain people based on it?

dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2011, 02:32:53 pm »

If their was a government ban based on race, I wouldn't support that at all.

Well that's just really sad historical knowledge there.  It was THE REASON why gubments are involved with marriage now.  It's what started the gubment intrusion into marriages and it was Federal.  I believe about 89 percent of the population supported that ban at the time.  The civil rights movement changed that, fortunately.

Most importantly, would you call that an expansion of gubment?  Would re-instituting the ban be a retraction of gubment (smaller gubment) since there would obviously be less gubment marriages allowed?  Would that be the principled libertarian position?

OMG.  I asked more than one question at once.  I should know better in this complicated game of trying to get a straight answer out of Keith.  Well, try to answer EACH question if you can, Keith.  Just take them one at a time.  It shouldn't be too hard.

dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2011, 02:54:23 pm »

Keith, your position is exposed just as well by dodging really clear questions.

For a gubment that's already allowing some people to marry and banning other types of marriages (inter-racial for example), is it an expansion of gubment to allow more people to choose who they marry, such as inter-racial couples, when previously they were banned from marrying?

It happened.  They were banned and then they declared the ban unconstitutional.  When they removed the Federal ban, was that an expansion of gubment?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 02:57:48 pm by dalebert »
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K. Darien Freeheart

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 04:12:23 pm »

I don't know where I stand on this, personally.

Ethically, I find discrimination to be repugnant. I'm opposed to it.

But I've got a few other things going as well that cast some doubts.

First, I'm sex-positive and polyamorous. I've been a big supporter in the past of equality based on sexual orientation and gender identity. At one point, I supported ending gay marriage bans too.

What I'm finding however, is that a lot of people don't really give a damn about equality, they give a damn about getting what they want from the government. I feel there's some level of personal affront that the very same people I've stood in support of couldn't care less about MY equality, or the ability to marry the three people that I love.

One side of me really wonders about "incrimentalism". I mean, I've seen about 20 years of shift in the views of homosexual, from a societal stigma to... whatever it is now. I wouldn't say it's positive, but I'd say it's far better with open homosexual characters in TV shows, marriage rights be a hotly discussed issue and news storys of "fags" being beaten on streetcorners. In that 20 years, people have gotten pissed and pissed people have become activists.

But where did those activists go when gay marriage was legalized in their state? Did they keep up that call for equality? Nah, not so much.

The same thing affects my stances on the marijuana protests and bills. It's hard enough getting pot smokers excited about being activists, but they do it. What happens to the movement to totally legalize drugs when the biggest body of drug users isn't willing to get vocal about the NEXT issue.

Being a straight, polyamorous non-pot smoking fan of LSD has made me bitter. I see some issues taken on by GREAT activists who don't get PRINCIPLE. And while some people get some wins, I don't think all that much is happening to change the social aspects BEHIND some of the issues that we deal with. Every "win" seems to distill the issue down for me to it's base and that's hard to escape.

So would I sign the petition to unban? I don't know. Probably. But I would consider NOT signing it for reasons other than being an intolerant bigot. Or I might put some sort of litmus test upon the person holding the petition.
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dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 07:49:24 pm »

Keith, your position is exposed just as well by dodging really clear questions...

It happened.  They were banned and then they declared the ban unconstitutional.  When they removed the Federal ban, was that an expansion of gubment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 11:09:15 pm »

You didn't clarify any of your questions.  Also, to my knowledge, the government has never banned marriage.  It has just banned certain types of government marriage.  Please be clear of what you are talking about as this is a confusing issue.  Thanks.

I'm sorry for confusing you so much, Keith.  I have no idea how to rephrase the question in a way you'll understand, so I'll save you the trouble.  You answered it earlier so I'll just respost your answer for you.

[12:54:27 PM] Dale Everett: If we had a ban on inter-racial gubment marriages and NHLA was working to rmeove that ban, would say you don't support it because it's an exapansion of gubment and would increase your taxes?
[12:54:52 PM] snowshoe_and_stuff: since I don't want to upset everyone, I'll ignore the bad thing they do and let them continue to increase the size of government if that is what they want to do

Bold emphasis mine.

Alex Libman

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 01:20:34 am »

I happen to be a victim of the government's racist marriage policies.  According to the so-called government "scientists", there is only one race that is capable of entering into a contract like marriage - the human race.  But they're wrong!  My beloved 192.168.1.19 server is a sentient being and a Rational Economic Actor in every sense of the word, and we love each other, and on February 13th, 2009 (UNIX time 1234567890) I ceremoniously got down on one knee and sent my beloved a binary marriage proposal via the ICMP protocol, which it graciously welcomed passed its firewall and ponged in agreement!  No one in the heavens or earth shall be allowed to stand in the way of our union!  I don't care that the Cisco tech support doesn't approve of installing an artificial vagina in the ventilation bay or that hospital administrators won't allow her to scp log updates to my room - the reality of our love must never be denied!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 01:29:22 am by Alex Libman »
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rossby

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 02:43:15 am »

It's what started the gubment intrusion into marriages and it was Federal.

Mmm, not quite. States started long before then. The federal government still does almost nothing with marriage directly. There are just all sorts of indirect consequences because the federal government's reach continues to grow.
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dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 08:28:02 am »

I would not deny you marriage to your server if you will not deny me a laugh when your penis gets painfully jammed in the floppy drive.

Hehe...  I said "floppy" in the same sentence as Alex's penis.

dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2011, 11:04:43 am »

Mmm, not quite. States started long before then. The federal government still does almost nothing with marriage directly. There are just all sorts of indirect consequences because the federal government's reach continues to grow.

Actually, I believe this is technically correct.  What I'm recalling is there was broad-based National support (89% is what I recall from polls at the time) for not recognizing inter-racial marriages and the Federal involvement was that they declared such discrimination by the states to be unconstitutional.

dalebert

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2011, 11:09:56 am »

Keith C. inspired this poll...

Edit by Freedomroad: I edited out the last name to protect the person's identity.  Sorry if that bothers anyone.

I apologize for using Keith's last name.  I didn't realize there was a policy against that.  Fortunately, he's a mod here on the FSP forum, so he was able to fix it himself.

My full name is Dale Everett, btw.  I'm not ashamed to have anything I say here be associated with my name.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 11:11:52 am by dalebert »
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TippyCanoe

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Re: Petition to End Ban on Inter-Racial Marriages
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2011, 03:25:13 pm »

I think Dale might be referring to the SCOTUS ruling on McLaughlin v. Florida 379 U.S. 184 (1964), and Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1 (1967), which overturned Pace v. Alabama, 106 U.S. 583 (1883), and declared the Racial Integrity Act of 1924 (SB 219) as unconstitutional.
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