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Author Topic: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism  (Read 3170 times)

antistate1190

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FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« on: January 17, 2011, 01:34:07 am »

Quote
The Limits of Libertarianism
Posted on January 11th, 2011 by James Banks   

Libertarianism is the new Trotskyism, argues Christopher Beam in a recent New York magazine essay. It is appealing even to those unfamiliar with its basic tenets because of its outsider status, but also far beyond anything that could possibly be realized.

[snip]

But even if Beam goes too far in dismissing libertarians as utopian and out-of-touch, it is still difficult to imagine a robust libertarian movement in the United States (at least in a form of which the Cato or Independent Institute would fully endorse). Libertarians might have the best ideas when it comes to the legalization of marijuana, the TSA, or the Federal Reserve. A central problems for libertarians is one of outreach rather than policy. Among politicians with libertarian tendencies, there is not one who could not be described by Russell Kirk’s famous statement: “men and women who accept the label “libertarian!’ [but who] are not actually ideological libertarians at all, but simply conservatives under another name.” The Republican Liberty Caucus—the closest thing to a libertarian organization in Congress—does have a few members (such as Jeff Flake and Ron Paul) who have supported libertarian policy recommendations like opposition to the Iraq War, but the caucus does not have a single member who would endorse a libertarian perspective on abortion.

Given that the country seems more devoted to economic liberty than social conservatism, it is possible that libertarians might eventually become a sizable part of either the Democratic or Republican coalition. The larger problem for libertarians, though, is more substantive: because they are so vigilant in their opposition to expansive government, libertarians often end up overemphasizing its significance. This mistake does not show up in their specific policy proposals, however, and thus libertarian institutions that emphasize policy over political activism fare better; libertarian politics, however, often end up embodied in initiatives like the Free State Project that have difficulty germinating into a mass movement.

Movements like these aren’t “crazy,” “impossible” or “utopian.” They seek to implement policies which are not so far beyond the pale of what an average American would be willing to live with. But the lengths to which libertarian activists go seem out of proportion from the perspective of the general public; why move to New Hampshire or a seastead in the ocean when the average citizen’s most intimate, obnoxious interaction with government occurs only once a year (in mid-April) and he is still free to express his opinion at the ballot box? For this reason, some politicians and voters will always channel their inner-libertarian (when organizations like TSA exist to hate)–but being fully possessed by that inner-libertarian is as rare as channeling him is common.

???
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antistate1190

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rossby

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2011, 01:48:59 am »

Quote
The Limits of Libertarianism
Posted on January 11th, 2011 by James Banks   

Libertarianism is the new Trotskyism, argues Christopher Beam in a recent New York magazine essay. It is appealing even to those unfamiliar with its basic tenets because of its outsider status, but also far beyond anything that could possibly be realized.

[snip]

But even if Beam goes too far in dismissing libertarians as utopian and out-of-touch, it is still difficult to imagine a robust libertarian movement in the United States (at least in a form of which the Cato or Independent Institute would fully endorse). Libertarians might have the best ideas when it comes to the legalization of marijuana, the TSA, or the Federal Reserve. A central problems for libertarians is one of outreach rather than policy. Among politicians with libertarian tendencies, there is not one who could not be described by Russell Kirk’s famous statement: “men and women who accept the label “libertarian!’ [but who] are not actually ideological libertarians at all, but simply conservatives under another name.” The Republican Liberty Caucus—the closest thing to a libertarian organization in Congress—does have a few members (such as Jeff Flake and Ron Paul) who have supported libertarian policy recommendations like opposition to the Iraq War, but the caucus does not have a single member who would endorse a libertarian perspective on abortion.

Given that the country seems more devoted to economic liberty than social conservatism, it is possible that libertarians might eventually become a sizable part of either the Democratic or Republican coalition. The larger problem for libertarians, though, is more substantive: because they are so vigilant in their opposition to expansive government, libertarians often end up overemphasizing its significance. This mistake does not show up in their specific policy proposals, however, and thus libertarian institutions that emphasize policy over political activism fare better; libertarian politics, however, often end up embodied in initiatives like the Free State Project that have difficulty germinating into a mass movement.

Movements like these aren’t “crazy,” “impossible” or “utopian.” They seek to implement policies which are not so far beyond the pale of what an average American would be willing to live with. But the lengths to which libertarian activists go seem out of proportion from the perspective of the general public; why move to New Hampshire or a seastead in the ocean when the average citizen’s most intimate, obnoxious interaction with government occurs only once a year (in mid-April) and he is still free to express his opinion at the ballot box? For this reason, some politicians and voters will always channel their inner-libertarian (when organizations like TSA exist to hate)–but being fully possessed by that inner-libertarian is as rare as channeling him is common.

???


What of it?
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antistate1190

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2011, 02:06:49 am »

Quote
The Limits of Libertarianism
Posted on January 11th, 2011 by James Banks   

Libertarianism is the new Trotskyism, argues Christopher Beam in a recent New York magazine essay. It is appealing even to those unfamiliar with its basic tenets because of its outsider status, but also far beyond anything that could possibly be realized.

[snip]

But even if Beam goes too far in dismissing libertarians as utopian and out-of-touch, it is still difficult to imagine a robust libertarian movement in the United States (at least in a form of which the Cato or Independent Institute would fully endorse). Libertarians might have the best ideas when it comes to the legalization of marijuana, the TSA, or the Federal Reserve. A central problems for libertarians is one of outreach rather than policy. Among politicians with libertarian tendencies, there is not one who could not be described by Russell Kirk’s famous statement: “men and women who accept the label “libertarian!’ [but who] are not actually ideological libertarians at all, but simply conservatives under another name.” The Republican Liberty Caucus—the closest thing to a libertarian organization in Congress—does have a few members (such as Jeff Flake and Ron Paul) who have supported libertarian policy recommendations like opposition to the Iraq War, but the caucus does not have a single member who would endorse a libertarian perspective on abortion.

Given that the country seems more devoted to economic liberty than social conservatism, it is possible that libertarians might eventually become a sizable part of either the Democratic or Republican coalition. The larger problem for libertarians, though, is more substantive: because they are so vigilant in their opposition to expansive government, libertarians often end up overemphasizing its significance. This mistake does not show up in their specific policy proposals, however, and thus libertarian institutions that emphasize policy over political activism fare better; libertarian politics, however, often end up embodied in initiatives like the Free State Project that have difficulty germinating into a mass movement.

Movements like these aren’t “crazy,” “impossible” or “utopian.” They seek to implement policies which are not so far beyond the pale of what an average American would be willing to live with. But the lengths to which libertarian activists go seem out of proportion from the perspective of the general public; why move to New Hampshire or a seastead in the ocean when the average citizen’s most intimate, obnoxious interaction with government occurs only once a year (in mid-April) and he is still free to express his opinion at the ballot box? For this reason, some politicians and voters will always channel their inner-libertarian (when organizations like TSA exist to hate)–but being fully possessed by that inner-libertarian is as rare as channeling him is common.

???


What of it?

It's basically writing the FSP off as a failure or would-be failure. Bad publicity.
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rossby

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2011, 02:26:12 am »

It's basically writing the FSP off as a failure or would-be failure. Bad publicity.

Didn't realize there was such a thing. :P
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 02:33:08 am by B.D. Ross »
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antistate1190

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2011, 03:06:03 am »

It's basically writing the FSP off as a failure or would-be failure. Bad publicity.

Didn't realize there was such a thing. :P

OK but giving the FSP a bad name by writing it off as something "bound to fail" might turn people away from it.
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10stateswithnh

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2011, 08:17:54 am »

I bet most of the people reading the article never heard of the FSP. Therefore, anyone who does hear about us from the article, and doesn't sign up because they think we're a failure, is someone we wouldn't have had anyway. If they do check us out and find out the reports of our failure are greatly exaggerated, then it is a gain for the project.

Hopefully it's not too late but I posted a comment anyway correcting them about the "failure" of the FSP.
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Bryce in Rochester
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2011, 12:30:27 pm »

Because the author by his statement 'why move to New Hampshire or a seastead in the ocean when the average citizen’s most intimate, obnoxious interaction with government occurs only once a year (in mid-April) and he is still free to express his opinion at the ballot box?', is expressing that only the federal government is of concern.

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rossby

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2011, 01:15:54 pm »

I bet most of the people reading the article never heard of the FSP. Therefore, anyone who does hear about us from the article, and doesn't sign up because they think we're a failure, is someone we wouldn't have had anyway. If they do check us out and find out the reports of our failure are greatly exaggerated, then it is a gain for the project.

Exactly.
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Alex Libman

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2011, 02:23:23 pm »

More comments from the peanut gallery, which should be ignored if we are to ever get anything done.

... except for this one thing I've noticed...  Since when is there a "libertarian perspective on abortion"?!  This issue is very complicated...
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rossby

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Re: FSP mentioned in article bashing libertarianism
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2011, 02:29:28 pm »

Since when is there a "libertarian perspective on abortion"?!  This issue is very complicated...

There isn't. But the article wasn't exactly... well written. And I don't mean pro- or anti-libertarianism. Just, uh, middles school-ish quality.
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