Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?  (Read 9895 times)

freedomroad

  • Guest
Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« on: January 05, 2011, 04:40:56 pm »

I don't know how to target this demographic but maybe someone has some ideas.

Opinion: MIT’s Libertarians
23 percent of students identify as libertarians
By Ethan A. Solomon
OPINION EDITOR
January 5, 2011

http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N61/libertarian.html


Also, it looks as their is some type of pro-freedom radio show out of MIT.
The Real News Show on WMBR MIT Student Radio - bringing you the stories ignored by corporate media.
http://realnewsshow.blogspot.com/
Logged

Sovereign Curtis

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
  • I <3 PorcFest
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2011, 04:43:06 pm »

ooooh, good target for some PorcFest outreach!
Logged
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

antistate1190

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1053
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2011, 06:06:41 pm »

I don't know how to target this demographic but maybe someone has some ideas.

Opinion: MIT’s Libertarians
23 percent of students identify as libertarians
By Ethan A. Solomon
OPINION EDITOR
January 5, 2011

http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N61/libertarian.html


Also, it looks as their is some type of pro-freedom radio show out of MIT.
The Real News Show on WMBR MIT Student Radio - bringing you the stories ignored by corporate media.
http://realnewsshow.blogspot.com/

What are you waiting for? Invite them up to NH and suggest they start forming jobs in the state.
Logged

anon37268573

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 553
  • First1000
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 06:17:57 pm »

I don't know how to target this demographic but maybe someone has some ideas.

Opinion: MIT’s Libertarians
23 percent of students identify as libertarians
By Ethan A. Solomon
OPINION EDITOR
January 5, 2011

http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N61/libertarian.html


Also, it looks as their is some type of pro-freedom radio show out of MIT.
The Real News Show on WMBR MIT Student Radio - bringing you the stories ignored by corporate media.
http://realnewsshow.blogspot.com/

A large percentage of MIT community members are libertarian.  That's especially true of the (Sloan) business school.  The same goes for Stanford.

The problem with recruiting at MIT is that New Hampshire just sucks ass as a place to start a high tech company or as a place find a high tech job due to issues like:
  - Insanely high corporate/business taxes (rated worst in the nation by the Tax Foundation)
  - Lack of infrastructure and lab space
  - Lack of existing high tech companies in NH
  - Lack of flexible housing (very few apartment buildings (especially with reasonable rents - partially due to high property taxes))
  - No real Venture Capital or Angels to speak of (other than Boston based VCs & Angels)
  - High taxes on success (wealth taxes: dividend income, interest income, property tax, car value tax)
  - Lack of social/night life (most NH communities are either rural or bedroom and want to stay that way) (also higher restaurant taxes than MA)
  - Very small gay (male), Asian, and Indian, population (lack of diversity)
  - The advanced average age of NH residents
  - Old fashion laws/policies (NH won't take FAXs because they don't trust the "new" technology of FAX machines)
  - Logistically non-ideal (expensive to ship goods to and from compared to IL, OH, CA, KY, etc.)
  - The weather (I don't really have a problem with it.  But, I hear this over and over again.)

Aside from all that, SFBA being the center of the Universe and having a ~0% unemployment rate for technical workers right now basically assures there will be very little to no success in recruiting.

Believe me, I've been trying to recruit at MIT for years.  New Hampshire just isn't taken seriously because of all the problems I highlighted.  The state does not want high tech companies or high tech workers.  It wants to not change at all.  It wants no new development and no new people.  It's worry and focus are about keeping its town centers like the "quaint New England town centers of the 1700's & 1800's".

No one can create large numbers of jobs in NH until NH stops stopping people from creating large numbers of jobs in NH.

I've even tried recruiting in my social network in SFBA.  But, people that are libertarian enough to want to leave SFBA have been heading to WA and other surrounding states.

I think the best thing to do would probably be to focus on the UMASS schools, try and find some libertarian clubs there.  Especially, UMASS Lowell since it's already near the border.  I just don't think students that go to MIT are going to sacrifice their chances for success in life by moving to NH no matter how strongly they feel about libertarian values.

I know there's been some success with MIT staff.  But, I think a lot of those people will eventually wind up moving out of NH due to the lack of transportation infrastructure between NH and Cambridge.  I can't even imagine how bad I93 will be traffic wise in 10 years.  There is no way MA will have the money or ability to widen I93.  Even NH can hardly handle the task - projected completion date for widening I93 in southern NH is more than 15 years out.  There's no way I93 from Cambridge to the NH border could handle another 20-30 years of similar growth.  Regardless, when ever the transportation problem comes up the politicians talk about stupid rail projects that won't even be able to handle .5% of the commuters on I93 during any current given rush hour (basically fewer people than probably called into work sick that day).

Logged

antistate1190

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1053
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 07:24:21 pm »

The problem with recruiting at MIT is that New Hampshire just sucks ass as a place to start a high tech company or as a place find a high tech job due to issues like:
  - Insanely high corporate/business taxes (rated worst in the nation by the Tax Foundation)
  - Lack of infrastructure and lab space
  - Lack of existing high tech companies in NH
  - Lack of flexible housing (very few apartment buildings (especially with reasonable rents - partially due to high property taxes))
  - No real Venture Capital or Angels to speak of (other than Boston based VCs & Angels)
  - High taxes on success (wealth taxes: dividend income, interest income, property tax, car value tax)
  - Lack of social/night life (most NH communities are either rural or bedroom and want to stay that way) (also higher restaurant taxes than MA)
  - Very small gay (male), Asian, and Indian, population (lack of diversity)
  - The advanced average age of NH residents
  - Old fashion laws/policies (NH won't take FAXs because they don't trust the "new" technology of FAX machines)
  - Logistically non-ideal (expensive to ship goods to and from compared to IL, OH, CA, KY, etc.)
  - The weather (I don't really have a problem with it.  But, I hear this over and over again.)


Free staters will counter the high business and property taxes. Maybe some agorists can build some clubs or small shops in the cities (Manch and Keene and maybe Concord) so they'll be more "cultured" like Boston.

Creating jobs and building a strong economy is the only way NH will succeed in being financially independent.
Logged

rossby

  • Director of Development
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4801
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 08:50:40 pm »

The problem with recruiting at MIT is that New Hampshire just sucks ass as a place to start a high tech company or as a place find a high tech job due to issues like:
  - Insanely high corporate/business taxes (rated worst in the nation by the Tax Foundation)
  - Lack of infrastructure and lab space
  - Lack of existing high tech companies in NH
  - Lack of flexible housing (very few apartment buildings (especially with reasonable rents - partially due to high property taxes))
  - No real Venture Capital or Angels to speak of (other than Boston based VCs & Angels)
  - High taxes on success (wealth taxes: dividend income, interest income, property tax, car value tax)
  - Lack of social/night life (most NH communities are either rural or bedroom and want to stay that way) (also higher restaurant taxes than MA)
  - Very small gay (male), Asian, and Indian, population (lack of diversity)
  - The advanced average age of NH residents
  - Old fashion laws/policies (NH won't take FAXs because they don't trust the "new" technology of FAX machines)
  - Logistically non-ideal (expensive to ship goods to and from compared to IL, OH, CA, KY, etc.)
  - The weather (I don't really have a problem with it.  But, I hear this over and over again.)

There're people actively working on several of these points.
Logged

anon37268573

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 553
  • First1000
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2011, 10:19:42 pm »

There're people actively working on several of these points.

The problem is that we activists need to succeed, not just try.  My point is that, from my experience, it seems to be wasted effort to go after the top performers until there's a good environment for them.  We don't even have any good corporate tax related victories to point to, yet.

Most students at MIT are going one of five places:  hedge funds, top tier tech, academia, abroad/home (mostly China), or start-ups.  Hedge funds usually means NYC, .ch, London, or Chicago.   Top tier tech usually means SFBA.  Academia is where ever a position/funding is available (no real choice for the student).   And, start-up means SFBA.

For example, take start-ups, even if we could convince a number of students to start their companies in NH, they'd face pressure from investors to move to SFBA (like Facebook and countless others).  They really have no choice to stay in a location like NH if they want to scale their company.

Even if a start-up founder wants to avoid SFBA at any cost, every major city and every state is competing to be the location for them.  That's true of existing large employers as well.  Look at the loan RI gave Schilling's game company.  Or, all the tax credits Mass has given to bring companies in from other states.  NH doesn't have the government infrastructure to "buy" corporate residents like that.

That's why I say it's better to focus on local schools, like UMASS Lowell. State school graduates are often stay in the local area and go to any multitude of places for employment/income.

What we really need is more voters so that we can have more influence on state corporate taxes.  It doesn't matter who those people are (MIT students or high school drop outs) as long as they become NH residents and vote libertarian.  We also need a louder voice to help kill bills like the gay marriage repeal and to introduce and push through legislation that stops punishing people for being successful.

Our metric of success needs to be number of movers that regularly vote after moving.  These are generational problems that are going to take tens of election cycles to work through.  But, the more voters we can get on our team, the sooner it will happen.  In the 1960's no one would have believed that SFBA would become the technology capital of the world.

That said, I don't think we'll see high success rates recruiting at places like MIT for at least another 10 or 20 years.  Even if California needs to double all their tax rates due to their current insolvency, it would still the best place to launch a start-up or run a top tier tech company.  Because, the infrastructure of human, cultural, and physical capital is there.  The improved chances of success for a start-up are still worth the high tax rates because of the dramatically increased chances of success in SFBA.

There's only about 900 of us movers...  pulling from libertarian groups at state schools in surrounding states and libertarian groups in general society in surrounding states is likely to bring the highest recruiting success rate per mover.

I don't want to seem like I'm trying to stop anyone from recruiting at MIT.  By all means, go right ahead.  I just wanted to share my experience of trying and my understanding of why there was such a low success rate for me.

Logged

John Edward Mercier

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6534
  • Native
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2011, 11:12:51 pm »

What makes them 'top performers'?
Logged

anon37268573

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 553
  • First1000
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2011, 02:00:26 am »

Top performance.
Logged

John Edward Mercier

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6534
  • Native
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2011, 05:37:46 am »

In what?
What is it that they have making them so desirable to NH?
Logged

anon37268573

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 553
  • First1000
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2011, 03:40:24 pm »

In what?
What is it that they have making them so desirable to NH?


Wealth creation.
Logged

rossby

  • Director of Development
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4801
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 05:20:05 pm »

There're people actively working on several of these points.

The problem is that we activists need to succeed, not just try.

Success will be had. But not overnight.
Logged

Bazil

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1027
  • not the spice and not the country
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 10:20:22 pm »

I don't know how to target this demographic but maybe someone has some ideas.

Opinion: MIT’s Libertarians
23 percent of students identify as libertarians
By Ethan A. Solomon
OPINION EDITOR
January 5, 2011

http://tech.mit.edu/V130/N61/libertarian.html


Also, it looks as their is some type of pro-freedom radio show out of MIT.
The Real News Show on WMBR MIT Student Radio - bringing you the stories ignored by corporate media.
http://realnewsshow.blogspot.com/

A large percentage of MIT community members are libertarian.  That's especially true of the (Sloan) business school.  The same goes for Stanford.

The problem with recruiting at MIT is that New Hampshire just sucks ass as a place to start a high tech company or as a place find a high tech job due to issues like:
  - Insanely high corporate/business taxes (rated worst in the nation by the Tax Foundation)
  - Lack of infrastructure and lab space
  - Lack of existing high tech companies in NH
  - Lack of flexible housing (very few apartment buildings (especially with reasonable rents - partially due to high property taxes))
  - No real Venture Capital or Angels to speak of (other than Boston based VCs & Angels)
  - High taxes on success (wealth taxes: dividend income, interest income, property tax, car value tax)
  - Lack of social/night life (most NH communities are either rural or bedroom and want to stay that way) (also higher restaurant taxes than MA)
  - Very small gay (male), Asian, and Indian, population (lack of diversity)
  - The advanced average age of NH residents
  - Old fashion laws/policies (NH won't take FAXs because they don't trust the "new" technology of FAX machines)
  - Logistically non-ideal (expensive to ship goods to and from compared to IL, OH, CA, KY, etc.)
  - The weather (I don't really have a problem with it.  But, I hear this over and over again.)

Aside from all that, SFBA being the center of the Universe and having a ~0% unemployment rate for technical workers right now basically assures there will be very little to no success in recruiting.

Believe me, I've been trying to recruit at MIT for years.  New Hampshire just isn't taken seriously because of all the problems I highlighted.  The state does not want high tech companies or high tech workers.  It wants to not change at all.  It wants no new development and no new people.  It's worry and focus are about keeping its town centers like the "quaint New England town centers of the 1700's & 1800's".

No one can create large numbers of jobs in NH until NH stops stopping people from creating large numbers of jobs in NH.

I've even tried recruiting in my social network in SFBA.  But, people that are libertarian enough to want to leave SFBA have been heading to WA and other surrounding states.

I think the best thing to do would probably be to focus on the UMASS schools, try and find some libertarian clubs there.  Especially, UMASS Lowell since it's already near the border.  I just don't think students that go to MIT are going to sacrifice their chances for success in life by moving to NH no matter how strongly they feel about libertarian values.

I know there's been some success with MIT staff.  But, I think a lot of those people will eventually wind up moving out of NH due to the lack of transportation infrastructure between NH and Cambridge.  I can't even imagine how bad I93 will be traffic wise in 10 years.  There is no way MA will have the money or ability to widen I93.  Even NH can hardly handle the task - projected completion date for widening I93 in southern NH is more than 15 years out.  There's no way I93 from Cambridge to the NH border could handle another 20-30 years of similar growth.  Regardless, when ever the transportation problem comes up the politicians talk about stupid rail projects that won't even be able to handle .5% of the commuters on I93 during any current given rush hour (basically fewer people than probably called into work sick that day).



Some places in NH are havens for hi-tech like Nashua.  Lots of hi-tech companies there, lots of housing and not too bad commute to the Boston area.  There is even a Bus that goes down to Boston from Nashua.  Maybe that's the area to focus on attracting MIT people to.
Logged
"If it ain't broke, fix it till it is!"- The government | "Politicians are like diapers, they need to be changed often, and for the same reasons!" -  a friend

dalebert

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1761
    • Flaming Freedom
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2011, 08:57:42 am »

Opinion: MIT’s Libertarians
23 percent of students identify as libertarians

Doesn't surprise me that much.  Nerds and techy types definitely seem disproportionately libertarian.

anon37268573

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 553
  • First1000
Re: Lots of MIT students are libertarian?
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2011, 11:43:43 am »


Some places in NH are havens for hi-tech like Nashua.  Lots of hi-tech companies there, lots of housing and not too bad commute to the Boston area.  There is even a Bus that goes down to Boston from Nashua.  Maybe that's the area to focus on attracting MIT people to.

The Nashua bus is state subsidized.  It still costs $5 each way.  That's currently more than gas to drive yourself in a Japanese sedan costs.  The bus drops you at South Station.  So, you have to buy two subway rides a day in addition to the bus fare (another $1.70 - really $3.40 but MIT pays 50% of T-Pass costs) to get to MIT.  So, $11.70 a day in commute costs (not counting driving yourself to the NH welcome area off RT3).  The total commute time would probably be about 2:30 each way (~21% of the day - ~28% of waking hours if you sleep 6 hrs) .

Don't even get me started on what a cluster f*ck disaster the MBTA is.  A drop of rain hits the ground or a flake of snow and they see huge delays if they're even able to run at all- not to mention what happens when some idiot loser too lazy to use a gun or a rope jumps in front of one of the trains and they have to "investigate" it.  The MBTA is largely unusable.  I rode the MBTA to work everyday for ~5 years.  It was painful.

What will the commute cost be if the state subsidy goes away?  As a FreeStater in NH, I'd really like to see the subsidy go away.

I don't know of any high tech companies in Nashua.  I know of a few software companies.  But, I wouldn't call them high tech- not by any stretch.  There are no VC funded techs founded by PhD's that I know of in Nashua.

Maybe someday, NH can start buying land from other states.  Like, parts of Maine and western Mass.  It can bring those areas under NH laws and make those areas more economically vibrant and give people that need to commute to Boston more convenient areas that are reasonable to live in.  My fingers are crossed.

Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up