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Author Topic: Introduction to Libertarianism  (Read 14834 times)

Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2003, 10:55:50 pm »

BRAVO!!!!

all of that should be written in the Constitution of the United States! :) :)

I would most definitly agree with what you said, John.

Gandalf, Dude-Who-Wears-White-Clothing
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

MajesticLeo

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2003, 07:51:22 am »

e he doesn’t want people to think.  He happens to also be a school teacher and an ex-navy commander, so that explains everything to me.  


I realize at my advanced age I know much less than you do at this point in your life. Perhaps you could explain it to me???  

As a retired Navy Lt. Commander, I would be interested in this particular stereotype.  I was also a teacher, albiet at the college level.  Perhaps you should consider that disruption of the process, while personally satisfying for your ego, only decreases the opportunity for others to learn??  
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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2003, 10:54:26 am »

[Perhaps you should consider that disruption of the process, while personally satisfying for your ego, only decreases the opportunity for others to learn??  

Indeed....  However, I have come to think that the Government schools often teach watered down or incorrect information.  For example, I know a kid who attends a government school and he has been taught that the United States has not lost any freedom in the 227 years of its existance.  He has also been taught that the Second Amendment is stated as follows:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the Government to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The real one is as follows:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

If the Ex-Navy commander that I know is a school teacher then I see it that he is teaching what the Government tells him to teach, neither more nor less.  According to my research, the Government just wants the people to be robots that they can program not to think of their own or to seek the truth.  If this is the way he teaches (and it is) then he is making these little robots and giving them the wrong info that the Fed Gov wants him to.  Therefore, I belive it is necessary for the process to be disturbed.  It will make people think.

In conclusion...
This is not meant to be offensive in any way, shape, or form.  What was listed above is opinion based upon peronal experience and fact.  If any have questions or comments please feel free to ask.  Thank you,

Gandalf the White.  
« Last Edit: September 08, 2003, 10:56:36 am by Gandalf the White »
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

Ichthus

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2003, 02:43:40 pm »

I have to disagree with one of the premises of the Flash presentation, and if anyone knows what my name means, they already know what can of worms I'm going to open up.

I am a Bible-believing Christian.  Now, those of you who haven't stopped listening, hear me out.  On the basis of my faith, I believe that everyone is created by God in His own image, and that no one has the right to ownership over himself, for ownership belongs to the Maker.  This also implies that no one, including God, has the power over any person to force them to do something against that person's will.

That being said, I support the FSP whole-heartedly, I'm a staunch Constitutionalist, and I will not force others to believe what I believe, but I welcome a fair and balanced debate over religion.  I'll respect your view, even if I think that it's wrong, and I'll take criticism straight on the chin.

I agree that the current political system is nowhere near what the Framers intended, and I believe that we should push to abolish all laws that are not in accord with the Constitution, including several of the Amendments (but none of the first 10).  WE should once again make government subservient to the will of the people.

In regards to the FSP, I believe that it would be a good idea to pick either MT, WY, ND, SD, or AK as the Free State.  There's one main reason for this.  Along with the freedom-loving Provinces of Manitoba, Sascatchawan, and British Columbia, those States form a contiguous entity that, if enough progress was made, could eventually secede peacefully from their respective federal governments and form their own sovereign confederacy.  With the multiplicity of natural resources and trading options afforded by that area of North America, this is a very viable option.

OK, that's enough rambling.  I'll set myself for the scathing criticism that I know is coming.  Pro Christo et Libertas!
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"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited to it by the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the People."
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Zack Bass

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2003, 03:19:37 pm »



I believe that everyone is created by God in His own image, and that no one has the right to ownership over himself, for ownership belongs to the Maker.  This also implies that no one, including God, has the power over any person to force them to do something against that person's will.


No it doesn't.
The statement you just made ("ownership belongs to the Maker") implies that you are the Property of God, you are his Slave, and he has the power and the authority and the right to Force you to do any damn thing he likes.  You know that God has all the power in the world, of course he can Force you to do his bidding and your opinion about it changeth nothing.

You have no ownership over yourself, but God does.

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lloydbob1

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2003, 05:51:53 pm »


That being said, I support the FSP whole-heartedly, I'm a staunch Constitutionalist, and I will not force others to believe what I believe, but I welcome a fair and balanced debate over religion.  I'll respect your view, even if I think that it's wrong, and I'll take criticism straight on the chin.


It is a good thing, Ichthus, that you will not force others to believe what you believe.
you are free to discuss almost anything on this thread, including religion, but, there is a another thread for it's discussion.
Lloyd
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Ichthus

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2003, 05:28:06 pm »

Quote
The statement you just made ("ownership belongs to the Maker") implies that you are the Property of God, you are his Slave, and he has the power and the authority and the right to Force you to do any damn thing he likes.  You know that God has all the power in the world, of course he can Force you to do his bidding and your opinion about it changeth nothing.

You have no ownership over yourself, but God does.

I apologize for not making myself clear.  God does have all the right to force us to do what He wants, but He won't because He respects our right to make our own choices, even when they are contrary to what He wants.

With that clarification, I intedn on generally vacating this message board for others, especially the religion board.  Feel free to post responses, and I'll check in periodically.  Keep standing for our God-given freedom from the tyranny of others!
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"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited to it by the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the People."
- Amendment X, Constitution of the United States of America

Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2003, 10:29:37 am »

Ichthus,

I believe that a person has the right to practice any religion they want.  I am glad that you do not wish to push your ways onto others.  I think that the U.S. could use any sort of person who is willing to fight for their rights, whether they're God-given or not.  
    However, I strongly believe that if one does not own their own life then they're are a slave.  I refuse to believe in any god or government that doesn't allow me to own my life.  
    Furthermore....

The Statements above are not meant to offend any on the boards.  They simply State opinions.    
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

SBottari

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2003, 03:33:23 pm »

Ichthus,

I would like to know what you think of praying then?  Asking God for something that you want or want to happen -  so is it mutual consent then with which if He decides He wants to do; He will?  Because from this argument I could come up with the premise to create an argument for His non-existence. (The fact, that all prayers that are answered, are not answered consistently)

I don't want to attack your beliefs but that presentation comes out perfect to me and that you do not own yourself but you have free-will is tacit slavery.   It's like you still have a chain around your neck of infinite length that God can grab whenever he has a fancy to do so, but he won't.  Somehow that doesn't sit right with me.  

I'm an objectivist and a libertarian, and if we didn't have possession over ourselves?  What are we living for?  We are the product of our choices, and our choices produce our property; therefore, we are our property.  

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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2003, 10:51:11 pm »

We are the product of our choices, and our choices produce our property; therefore, we are our property.  


Here, here!!

Very good Logic!  If I can't own my life then I am not really living, save by leave of a master who has the right to dispose of my life any time they wish.  This is no way to live.  It is not Justice for a god, government, or even just a person to enslave anyone.  I believe that a god, government, or person who claims the right to the lives of others is corrupt and Evil and should be overthrown as quickly as possible.  I, of course (mostly directed to Icthus) do not want to assail the ways or beliefs of others.  Nor do I want to force others to believe the things that I do.  I just want to put into the world my ideas, whether or not people agree with them.

Gandalf the White    
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

Freestate

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2003, 05:39:15 pm »

Hi all,
I think this sounds like a good philosophy, but i have some questions.  What are your views on capital punishment, abortion and limited taxation?
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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2003, 11:51:23 pm »

Hi all,
I think this sounds like a good philosophy, but i have some questions.  What are your views on capital punishment, abortion and limited taxation?

Sup,

I hope I can answer some of your questions, Freestate.
I think that capital punishment is perfectly fine, under cirtain circumstances.  If a man killed another man, the killer deserves to die.  However, I think that you must first make absolute sure that the aledged killer indeed commited the crime.
   As to abortion, I am pro choice.  If someone wants an abortion, that's their business, not anyone elses.  
   I'm sorry, but I'm not sure what limited taxation is.  Perhaps you could explain.

The Grey Pilgram
« Last Edit: September 26, 2003, 06:44:15 pm by Gandalf the White »
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

Freestate

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2003, 06:24:31 am »

Hi all,
I think this sounds like a good philosophy, but i have some questions.  What are your views on capital punishment, abortion and limited taxation?

   As to abortion, I am pro choice.  If someone wants an abortion, that's their business, not anyone elses.  
   I'm sorry, bt I'm not sure what limited taxation is.  Perhaps you could explain.

The Grey Pilgam
Hi all,
First to address abortion, there is scientific evidence proving that a fetus is actually a highly developed human quite early in a pregnancy.  I mentally equate abortion as the same as killing a 6mo., 1yr... baby.  I think that laws need to exist to reasonably limit a parent's authority over thier child.  If these laws don't exist, at all ages, there would be no problem murdering your 10yr old kid.  In every aspect but law, this is the same as an abortion.
Limited taxation is the reality that some tax is required,
I was just wondering if libertarians are against all tax or just against excessive tax
Thanks for your clarifications.
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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2003, 11:28:46 am »

I, at least, am against excess Taxation.  I hope the rest of the Free State Project does.  


Gandalf
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

Zack Bass

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Re:Introduction to Libertarianism
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2003, 08:13:37 am »



If a man killed another man, the killer deserves to die.... If someone wants an abortion, that's their business, not anyone elses.


What if a woman killed a man?
What if a woman killed a teeny tiny baby?

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