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Author Topic: I'm about ready to sign up  (Read 5310 times)

Sebastian

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I'm about ready to sign up
« on: June 29, 2003, 09:41:38 pm »

Hi all.

I've just about convinced my wife that we need to sign up. Have not taken quite enough time to study all the interesting material yet, but am getting there.

Personally, one of the most important things for me is the price of housing. I want to own a house and feel financially secure. I plan on saving up about $10k a year in the coming years, which, by the time the FSP move would happen, would give me about $60-80k saved. Wyoming seems to fit those numbers best (about $170k), whereas New Hampshire doesn't ($350+k). I realize the average income in NH is higher than in WY, but I think my initial investment will get me further in WY, and will enable me to spend more time focusing on the political aspect of FSP.

I don't really care about any other criteria, as I think that if for example the projected job growth in state A is higher than that of state B, state A will attract more activists, but we'll be able to make a change in the job growth in state B (we are libertarian-minded after all) thus gaining support of locals (they'll benefit from new jobs as well) and require less activists as a result. Either way, we'll do fine.

Hope to spend a lot of time browsing these forums.

Sebastian

(PS I'm currently a permanent resident of the US, not yet a citizen, but I don't think that matters, right?)

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LeRuineur6

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2003, 11:21:51 pm »

Quote
Personally, one of the most important things for me is the price of housing.

When it comes to promoting liberty, this is not one of the most important things, that is, unless you're retired or want to live in a mansion.  But that still has nothing to do with liberty.  That only has to do with you.

Quote
I don't really care about any other criteria, as I think that if for example the projected job growth in state A is higher than that of state B, state A will attract more activists, but we'll be able to make a change in the job growth in state B (we are libertarian-minded after all)

Jobs are a different matter entirely.  Without jobs, most of us cannot move nor find success if we do.  In VT and WY, for instance, students graduate from school and then they must move out of the state in droves.  And we aren't moving to a state in order to warm up the economy... so that we can move to the state and warm up the economy.  That just doesn't make any sense.

Which comes first, the moving or the warmed-up economy?  Which came first, the chicken or the egg?  It's like moving an egg into a state and saying it will hatch soon so there will be more chickens when, in fact, the "economic" egg must be incubated for quite some time in a state like VT or WY because the jobs simply aren't there for us to take.

If you are a hard-working activist who is willing to temporarily sacrifice a few square feet on your house, then I really hope you do sign up!  We need you!
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LisaLew

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2003, 12:19:47 am »

Hello Sebastian---

I think your concerns are valid on the two hot contenders for FS.  I, too, have taken a look at the housing in both WY and NH, and the housing cost concern me as well.  While owning a home is not a "necessity",  having housing is, and even renting a house or apartment is daunting in NH.  And property ownership is a liberty issue, IMO, because as long as you cannot afford to purchase a home or property, you are at the mercy of your landlord-- your dwelling is not yours, it is theirs to do with as they see fit.

I hope you are able to complete your saving goal, and no matter where FS is, it will help you along immensely.  In NH, you will just be living in a condo ( a bit of humor-- not completely serious with that statement).
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Sebastian

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2003, 08:38:54 am »

Quote
When it comes to promoting liberty, this is not one of the most important things
Yeah, I'm gonna promote liberty as an urban outdoorsman. Not. My home is to be my base of operations. A cheap home will allow me to work less and focus on spreading liberty more.  A mortgage of $1000 a month as opposed to $2000 a month means I could make do with an income of about half. As mean household income in WY isn't all that much lower than it is in NH ($40k as opposed to $46k), I'll go for the $1000 mortgage payment. I'll be able to apply for lower-paying jobs and thus greatly increase my chance of finding a job.
Quote
Which comes first, the moving or the warmed-up economy?
Depends entirely on the philosophy. Are we moving to a state where things are already good, and try to make things slightly better? Or are we moving to a state where things may not be all that good, but we're going to try to drastically improve things? Which will be a better example to the rest of the nation? Of course, if we have to take into account that moving to a state where things aren't all that good could lead to failure, which would make for a really bad example...
Quote
If you are a hard-working activist who is willing to temporarily sacrifice a few square feet on your house, then I really hope you do sign up!
How about a hard-working activist who wants to move out of the mold-infested, crumbling down rental he currently lives in, and just wants ANY decent size-doesn't-matter house?
If a 'mansion' in WY costs $170k as opposed to in NH $360k, I assume that a size-doesn't-matter house in WY will be about half the price of one in NH as well. Give me that $100k house and I'll be fine. Got one for $50k? Great, I'll take it.

I really don't want a mansion. I don't plan on having kids, but I am tired of the place I live in now and want to own my own house. I accept my current living conditions only because the rent is cheap, which allows me to save up for a house.

Sebastian
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jgmaynard

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2003, 04:10:02 pm »

My gf and I have a house in Keene....... A fairly expensive part of NH...  We pay about $1000/mth in mortgage for a three bedroom two story house with 1/4 acre of land...
Up north a bit, or even between cities, the properties get larger. A friend of ours lives in Temple, and is certainly not rich (she is the administrative assistant - close to mayor) of a town, and has ~ 30 acres in Temple, 45 mins from Manchester and Keene.
Rick LaPoint's parents are selling a place in Lancaster (the site of the Escape :D) for $170,000.... Two floors, three bedrooms, two baths, 2 acres of land.
Check out the classifieds at http://www.theunionleader.com .

JM
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LibertyLover

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2003, 06:02:24 pm »

Jobs are a different matter entirely.  Without jobs, most of us cannot move nor find success if we do.  In VT and WY, for instance, students graduate from school and then they must move out of the state in droves.  And we aren't moving to a state in order to warm up the economy... so that we can move to the state and warm up the economy.  That just doesn't make any sense.


I've read this argument a lot--that the projected number of jobs is an important consideration and that more projected jobs is always better, but I'm not sure that is true. The most important thing is to pick a state where 20,000 new residents can make a major difference. If we pick a state that is going to attract 40,000 new statist residents because of its great economy while we are moving in our 20,000, we may find ourselves overwhelmed by "progressive" activists who want to take advantage of whatever gains we have made toward freedom.

The way I see it, I can find ways to be personally free just about anywhere. The reason for moving to the Free State is to prove that freedom works for everybody. Less government means not only greater personal freedom, but also greater peace and prosperity.

If freedom does create wealth, the problem we encounter may be too many mouchers moving in rather than too few jobs for freedom loving people. That's why I prefer a smaller state where freedom loving people will start moving right away because they know they can make a difference with far fewer than 20,000.

It seems to me that worrying about who is going to create jobs for us shows a defeatist attitude that could be self-fulfilling. Of course, I'm sure someone will say I'm too optimistic or even reckless.  ;)
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JasonPSorens

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2003, 08:50:38 pm »

Hi Sebastian - Welcome to the forum!  Just wanted to answer your question about being a permanent resident.  There's absolutely no reason why you couldn't sign up for & participate in the FSP.  We have some members who are neither citizens nor residents of the US yet.
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LeopardPM

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2003, 10:19:42 pm »

Hi Sebastian!

BTW: being a libertarian means you have the freedom to make choices depending on 'WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU', so if owning a larger house is more important than having a more pro-lib environment, go ahead.  I trust you will be actively participating in expanding the lib ideas to others and voting lib, otherwise you would be more of a lib free-rider than a member or friend FSPwise...

Welcome again!
michael
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Sebastian

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2003, 07:54:46 am »

Quote
so if owning a larger house is more important than having a more pro-lib environment
I don't want a LARGE house, I want A house :)
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LeRuineur6

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2003, 05:47:27 pm »

Sebastian,

Please see my reply to your post on this new thread:

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2231&start=0

I started a new thread because it contained too many goodies to put on this section of the forums.   :)

Thanks.
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Sebastian

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2003, 07:59:19 am »

Quote
There's absolutely no reason why you couldn't sign up for & participate in the FSP.  We have some members who are neither citizens nor residents of the US yet.
Great. Besides, I don't think it'll be too much longer before I can call myself a citizen of this great country.
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larry

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2003, 12:33:57 am »

Quote from: Sebastian  

Sebastian

(PS I'm currently a permanent resident of the US, not yet a citizen, but I don't think that matters, right?)


[quote

Hell no, it doesn't!!

I've personally invited some Iraqis to join the FSP, to escape
the dominion of the Neocons, and Buck Fush -  and a friend from Peru who has no "papers" yet.

All Ya gotta do is love liberty with all of your heart, as I see it.

libertarian larry



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silverfish

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Re:I'm about ready to sign up
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2003, 06:29:14 pm »

I have been lurking about here for the last few months (I think I signed up for the BB at the end of January but dont hold me to it) and have held off signing up. I guess I haven't gotten fed up enough yet. You would think that I wouldn't have any trouble getting pissed at the state of the state I live in (The Peoples Republic of California). I am getting close to the brink. I am fairly certain that I wont end up making up my mind by the time the vote comes around, and I may never officially sign up, but there is a good chance that you will see me in the state of choice soon!

Personally, having followed all the state selection rhetoric, and doing some of my own fact checking and soul searching I like NH the best. And the reasons are personal, and also liberty. The fact that I have family that lives near it helps it for me (and I realize that my in-laws are of no interest to you, so no need to flame). But it would certainly help me and my family make that decision. Also I could set up residence in that state nearly immediately, since my wife's mother owns property in the mountains there.

I am rambling mostly because I have about 6 months of pent up lurking to release. I may have to post a few more times before a coherent thought comes out!

To others in California, we should check into getting a group rate on moving vans.
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