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Author Topic: How can we abolish NH property tax?  (Read 30161 times)

MaineShark

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2012, 10:03:11 pm »

Alternative sources of conventionally government services need to be provided by other sources or non-libertarians will act as though this is a fight of life and death. If these sources exist just point them out.

They do.  For example, arbitration.

However, I doubt that will convince many Statists.  Statism is a religion, and logic won't change their minds.  The fact that something is a heresy against their doctrine is probably worse, in their minds, than if it did not exist.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 12:04:41 pm »

How would 'arbitration' lower our property taxes? As far as I know, I don't pay for civil suits.
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MaineShark

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2012, 02:08:54 pm »

How would 'arbitration' lower our property taxes? As far as I know, I don't pay for civil suits.

Yeah, those courthouses and all the workers there from the judges on down are just free... ::)
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

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John Edward Mercier

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2012, 04:12:26 pm »

When I go to civil court someone always has to pay the court fees...
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MaineShark

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2012, 03:36:29 pm »

When I go to civil court someone always has to pay the court fees...

That's a small fraction of the actual cost of the court.  Sort of like the co-pay that a patient with insurance pays at the doctor's office: it's a small fraction of the yearly cost of the insurance policy, and only exists to prevent ridiculous levels of abuse of the system...
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

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John Edward Mercier

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2012, 03:48:43 pm »

The other costs of the Court would be offenses.
Not sure that an offender would willing submit to arbitration rather than just walk free.
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MaineShark

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2012, 03:52:38 pm »

The other costs of the Court would be offenses.
Not sure that an offender would willing submit to arbitration rather than just walk free.

We're not talking about criminal, with the discussion relative to judge.me, since they cannot arbitrate criminal cases.

We're talking about civil cases, which cost far more than the tiny fees charged.  If you eliminated civil cases from the NH court system, the system could probably be shrunk by at least 50%, if not more.  Go look up the budget of the judicial branch and chop it in half, then tell me how much court costs...
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

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rossby

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2012, 06:24:32 pm »

The other costs of the Court would be offenses.
Not sure that an offender would willing submit to arbitration rather than just walk free.

We're not talking about criminal, with the discussion relative to judge.me, since they cannot arbitrate criminal cases.

We're talking about civil cases, which cost far more than the tiny fees charged.  If you eliminated civil cases from the NH court system, the system could probably be shrunk by at least 50%, if not more.  Go look up the budget of the judicial branch and chop it in half, then tell me how much court costs...

Most civil cases already go through mediation or arbitration. Part of the problem is the mentality: a whole lot of people want to have their day in court, rather than fix the problem constructively.
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MaineShark

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2012, 06:37:27 pm »

Most civil cases already go through mediation or arbitration.

I doubt that's true.  A large number, maybe, but I doubt it's a majority, or even close.

Part of the problem is the mentality: a whole lot of people want to have their day in court, rather than fix the problem constructively.

Agreed.  Hence why there should not be a "public option."  A system which does not exist, cannot be abused.  As long as that system exists, it will be abused, just like any other form of socialism.
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

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John Edward Mercier

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2012, 09:03:48 pm »

Even in arbitration, which would require both parties either to volunteer... or have to be enforced by the government... the arbitrator isn't going to be inexpensive. I think you would need to raise court costs, thus making arbitration less expensive... or some other means... to get people to choose that path.
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MaineShark

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2012, 11:45:57 am »

Even in arbitration, which would require both parties either to volunteer... or have to be enforced by the government... the arbitrator isn't going to be inexpensive. I think you would need to raise court costs, thus making arbitration less expensive... or some other means... to get people to choose that path.

Did you even bother to go to the link I posted?

$300, total (ie, $150/party).
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

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rossby

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2012, 12:54:21 pm »

Most civil cases already go through mediation or arbitration.

I doubt that's true.  A large number, maybe, but I doubt it's a majority, or even close.

It's pretty much every case these days. (And it depends on the nature of the case.) Though parties can opt-out. If the judiciary didn't use ADR, the court system would fall apart because it's simply too expensive.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 01:31:59 pm by Rossby »
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TJames

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2012, 12:51:56 am »

You don't need to point that out to me at this point. But thanks I can now use this site in a debate. I think you should point this out to the public because I think 25% of the population is wired for nonviolence and that might be all we need to go stateless.

For the minarcist, just keep watching Stefan Molyneux. Arbitration was the only thing I took issue with voluntarist on until now.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2012, 12:21:37 pm »

Even in arbitration, which would require both parties either to volunteer... or have to be enforced by the government... the arbitrator isn't going to be inexpensive. I think you would need to raise court costs, thus making arbitration less expensive... or some other means... to get people to choose that path.

Did you even bother to go to the link I posted?

$300, total (ie, $150/party).
So you sue me. Why would I be willing to put out $150 rather than just sit back? The arbitrator doesn't have any authority without the force of government.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: How can we abolish NH property tax?
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2012, 12:25:02 pm »

You don't need to point that out to me at this point. But thanks I can now use this site in a debate. I think you should point this out to the public because I think 25% of the population is wired for nonviolence and that might be all we need to go stateless.

For the minarcist, just keep watching Stefan Molyneux. Arbitration was the only thing I took issue with voluntarist on until now.
Most of the towns/cities can't even 'abolish' the extra expenditure to local schools. Trying to abolish something at the County level is even harder... and jumping from one flawed system to another won't work, so every conceivable kink needs to be worked out before a public proposal is submitted.

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