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Author Topic: What laws will there be if any?  (Read 14430 times)

Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2003, 04:19:41 pm »

Thing is, criminals will be very, very hesitant to use guns if they think that someone's gonna be firing back.  There are a huge number of criminals who are not going to risk their life for the crime.

Exactly!  If everyone knew that everyone else was carrying a weapon and was willing to use it to protect themselves, most criminals would not commit crimes.  Of course, there are always the insane sorts who will kill themselves just to commit a small insignificant crime.  But those people are pretty rare - except in the Middle East. :) :) ;)
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

John-Wiltbank

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2003, 12:33:36 am »

Gandalf, who is smiting you?  I think we need to start a campaign to raise your karma!

Anyways, your comment is right on.  What frustrates me is why some of my friends (one in particular) absolutely, positively WILL NOT understand this point.  They just refuse.  No matter how many different ways it is explained to them, they simply hate the idea of everyone having guns.

I guess the word is "hoplophobia":  Irrational fear of guns (hoplo- from the Greek for weapons).

John Wiltbank
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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2003, 05:18:37 pm »

Sup, dudes and dudettes!

Hey, John, I also have a friend who hates the Idea of people having guns and he wants to take them all away.  He says that when he becomes president of the United States ( ;D :o ;D)  he's going to pass an international law prohibiting the use of Fire Arms in military conflict.  He also says that the founding Fathers wrote the Second Amendment to protect only the single-shot flintlock rifles of their time.  However, I know this is wrong by the following statement:  "...Secure the Blessings of Liberty to OURSELVES (as in the people who lived at the time of the Revolution) and our POSTERITY (the people that live today) do ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America." -- the Preamble of the Constitution.

If anyone objects, then fine.  It matters not to me.    



Mithrandir, Gandalf Grayhame  
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

telomerase

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Gun Control laws
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2003, 03:11:41 pm »

Switzerland hasn't been in a war for 200 years, and their crime rate is a low as it gets. They have very strict, statist gun control laws: if you refuse to keep a machine gun, mortar, or assault rifle in your home, you go to prison. I don't support this rampant gun control, but there's no arguing with the results.

Anyway for the Free State I think we can rest assured that gun control laws will not be much of an issue; most of the proposed states don't have much gun control anyway.
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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:Gun Control laws
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2003, 10:20:03 pm »

Switzerland hasn't been in a war for 200 years, and their crime rate is a low as it gets. They have very strict, statist gun control laws: if you refuse to keep a machine gun, mortar, or assault rifle in your home, you go to prison. I don't support this rampant gun control, but there's no arguing with the results.

This, I believe is a violation of a person's right of Free Choice.  The thing that I am against fully is the fact that the Federal Government puts restictions quite the opposite to Switzerland by saying that you can't own cirtain guns.  Let me tell you about a law in California.  The Yugoslavian 7.62x39 SKS rifle, semi-automatic, with bayonet, sniper scope, and Ten Round Magazine is a legal Rifle.  You May own this Rifle in California.  Same Rifle with non-fuctional Grenade Launcher, Forty Round "Bannana Clip", and Pistol-Grip is an out-lawed illegal "Assault Rifle".  Tell me, where in the Second Amendment does it say that the People cannot own cirtain weapons?  To my rememberance there is no such statement.  
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Anyway for the Free State I think we can rest assured that gun control laws will not be much of an issue; most of the proposed states don't have much gun control anyway.

Hopefully 8)
Mithrandir, Gandalf the Awesomely White

P.S.  If this Post seems Harsh and Offending to anyone, I am honestly very sorry; there was no offense meant whatsoever.  I merely state the truth.  Thanks a bunch!  ;)
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

arclight

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Re:Gun Control laws
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2003, 06:59:58 am »


This, I believe is a violation of a person's right of Free Choice.  
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Violation of a persons CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, not choice. Citizens have a choice to excersize their rights.

You should ask your friends if the US is a democracy. If they say yes, ( most will), then slap them. Constitutional republic! Anyway...
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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2003, 10:59:38 am »

Yippee!!

It's good to know that I'm not the only one on this messed up speck of galactic dust who thinks.  There are so many people who say: "If the Government says it's good it must be.”  The monotonous beat of Life must from time to time be disrupted and shaken.  The thing is, once life is shaken, it settles down really fast.  I have discovered that
 Life is like a bottle of oil-based salad dressing; if you don’t use the dressing for a while, it begins to separate, with the oils on the top and the water below it.  But when you use it you must shake it to mix things up.  More People need to use the Salad Dressing of Life.  They need to stir stuff up and interrupt the Status Quo.

Well, contemplate that,


Mithrandir, Gandalf the Astonishingly, Awesomely,  Amazingly White  
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

RidleyReport

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2003, 01:27:17 am »

Gandalf I know we haven't talked much but it's great to see you've been here and active for a whole year now just like me.   You know, you don't have to confine yourself to the youth forum...you're welcome on all the others too.

Dada
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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2003, 01:45:46 pm »

You know, you don't have to confine yourself to the youth forum...you're welcome on all the others too.

Thanks for the warm welcome! :)  I like to post on the youth board to get good info to the youth-er people who post on the Free State Forums.  And I do post elsewhere in places like the Off Topic Forum.  I think (very often in fact :) ) that it is a good Idea to make the Youth more educated.

Gandalf the White  (Or if you Prefer, General Glorifeld Blackwood of the Rebel Army of Denland.  But that's aside the point, now isn't it? ;) )  
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

Mirage_10

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2003, 04:14:35 pm »

Hi-

I'm new-ish.  Ive done a lot of reading but no posting.  Gandalf, I think that we need more people like you in this world.  We need people who think.  I agree with all of the things that you have so far said.

Good day

Mirage
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John-Wiltbank

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2003, 10:30:28 pm »

The question of the thread is "What laws will there be, if any?"

Well, that depends if we're successful or not, but if we are, I would say not very many.  And, also important, not very many mean police men with itchy trigger fingers enforcing any bad laws we may forget to repeal.

Free State Project members will differ in the answer to whether there should be any state laws at all.  But certainly we are all against murder, pillage, arson and ransacking.  Whether those acts can be better prevented by their potential victims or by a group of politicians is another question.

Of course, keep in mind that there is a group of people who do these things (kill, burn, steal, etc.) far more than any private individuals.  And on a much larger scale.  What group is this?  The politicians, and the government employees they command.
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Freestate

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2003, 05:47:06 pm »

Hi all,
A decision will need to be made on the age people become responsible for themselves.  I hope all of us would agree that a five year old child could not run around with a gun or go into a bar, it becomes much more debatable at 12,14,16...  We need to decide the age at which a person legally "owns" their own life.  before that age, the parents would control the child's life, and after the age is reached, that person would have the same legal status as someone who is 25.
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Neo-Jeffersonian

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2003, 11:44:20 pm »

Hi all,
A decision will need to be made on the age people become responsible for themselves.  I hope all of us would agree that a five year old child could not run around with a gun or go into a bar, it becomes much more debatable at 12,14,16...  We need to decide the age at which a person legally "owns" their own life.  before that age, the parents would control the child's life, and after the age is reached, that person would have the same legal status as someone who is 25.

This is indeed very true.  I would be frighted to to a five-year-old kid wandering about with an S&W .357 revolver tucked into his belt, drinking a glass of whisky, and driving a motorcycle.  This just doesn't seem appropriate.  A specific age of majority must be found.  The only problem is, I believe that the current age of majority (18) is controlled by the Fed Gov.  So, in order to lower the Age of Majority, the Free State would need to directly oppose the government.  Not that it's a bad thing to show the Fed Gov opposition, but one must be carfull when trying it.  

I agree with what you say, Freestate.  It appears that you are well-educated on the topic.  

Good day to all,
Gandalf
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"I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"--Patrick Henry, 1776

"It is the path of least resistance that makes rivers and men crooked." --Unknown.

John-Wiltbank

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2003, 12:21:23 pm »

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Hi all,
A decision will need to be made on the age people become responsible for themselves.  I hope all of us would agree that a five year old child could not run around with a gun or go into a bar, it becomes much more debatable at 12,14,16...  We need to decide the age at which a person legally "owns" their own life.  before that age, the parents would control the child's life, and after the age is reached, that person would have the same legal status as someone who is 25.


Several people have given their ideas on this in the Age of Majority thread.  For Jews, at age 13 you are a full adult(although that means less for Jews living in America and other restrictive countries, as the mitzvah is not legally binding).  The Jews are one of the longest-lasting cohesive cultural groups around, so clearly they have been successful and the younger age of adulthood has not wreeked havok.

I personally think that the child and their family can decide.  If the five-year old wants a gun, she can have a gun.  The youngest and smallest among us probably need them more than anyone.  However, at that age, unless the parents feel she should have a gun and do the training and things neccesary to make that happen, it's very unlikely a child this young will take the initiative, earn $200 and buy one herself.

Once upon a time 100 years ago, it was a common sight to see a couple 9-year-old boys walking down the street with rifles.  If anyone noticed or thought anything of it, it was with approval and fond memories of going out and hunting rabbits themselves as a boy.  Age is sometimes hard to estimate, so if you would be frightened to see an armed 5-year-old, you would probably be frightened also to see an armed, short, 9-year-old.  I don't think we should be afraid of things like that.

The attack of the crazed machine-gun-toting kids may make an interesting science fiction movie, but is an impossible scenario.  One needs only a little bit of understanding of human nature to realize this.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2003, 12:22:40 pm by JohnWiltbank »
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Zack Bass

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Re:What laws will there be if any?
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2003, 12:36:18 pm »



Once upon a time 100 years ago, it was a common sight to see a couple 9-year-old boys walking down the street with rifles.  If anyone noticed or thought anything of it, it was with approval and fond memories of going out and hunting rabbits themselves as a boy.  Age is sometimes hard to estimate, so if you would be frightened to see an armed 5-year-old, you would probably be frightened also to see an armed, short, 9-year-old.  I don't think we should be afraid of things like that.
The attack of the crazed machine-gun-toting kids may make an interesting science fiction movie, but is an impossible scenario.  One needs only a little bit of understanding of human nature to realize this.


Is human nature in Central America and Africa so different from human nature in the U.S.?

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