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Author Topic: Free Keeners aren't making friends  (Read 27632 times)

antistate1190

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2010, 02:49:20 am »

He might want to review the make up of the State... we're pretty much all bred from immigrants.


OK I can accept that fact. But most of the immigrants moving to America now are very anti-libertarian. Im an anti-statist and I want to see all borders gone but for the time right now it bothers me that immigrants move to America from other places and then vote for more welfare and government services. That means higher taxes for us and bigger government. Dont get me wrong. I'm against closing the borders and borders in general. But I get upset by how anti-libertarian immigrants tend to be.
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greap

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2010, 07:44:24 am »

He might want to review the make up of the State... we're pretty much all bred from immigrants.


OK I can accept that fact. But most of the immigrants moving to America now are very anti-libertarian. Im an anti-statist and I want to see all borders gone but for the time right now it bothers me that immigrants move to America from other places and then vote for more welfare and government services. That means higher taxes for us and bigger government. Dont get me wrong. I'm against closing the borders and borders in general. But I get upset by how anti-libertarian immigrants tend to be.

I would absolutely love for you to justify that point because as far as I am concerned its absolute shit.

The strongest support for entitlement has always been from the middle classes deciding the working class "should have service x", immigrants almost entirely fall in to the working class category.
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creaganlios

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2010, 08:00:24 am »

I am aiming for Free Nashua types to have a bit of a higher profile than the Free Keniacs!  ;D

http://freenashua.com


From what I've heard Nashua is becoming more and more like Massachusetts esp. with all the immigrants moving there from Latin American countries. Nash needs to be free as well but it's becoming a haven for statists. I wouldn't let that discourage you tho.

We need to strategically pick free towns. Keene, Nashua, Concord, Manch, Grafton, Seabrook, Dover-Rochester, Laconia-Belmont, Lancaster, Conway and everywhere else.




Yeah, none of those brown-skinned people there.... ::)



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JasonPSorens

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2010, 08:28:04 am »

And it's known immigrants are one of the least likely groups to support libertarian causes. Most of them are dependent on the state for welfare money.

{{citation needed}}
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

creaganlios

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2010, 08:52:06 am »

And it's known immigrants are one of the least likely groups to support libertarian causes. Most of them are dependent on the state for welfare money.

{{citation needed}}

That's obviously how Gary Johnson got elected in New Mexico.   ::)
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rossby

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2010, 09:03:08 am »

I am aiming for Free Nashua types to have a bit of a higher profile than the Free Keniacs!  ;D

http://freenashua.com


From what I've heard Nashua is becoming more and more like Massachusetts esp. with all the immigrants moving there from Latin American countries. Nash needs to be free as well but it's becoming a haven for statists. I wouldn't let that discourage you tho.

We need to strategically pick free towns. Keene, Nashua, Concord, Manch, Grafton, Seabrook, Dover-Rochester, Laconia-Belmont, Lancaster, Conway and everywhere else.

Yeah, none of those brown-skinned people there.... ::)


Can we go a thread without a reference to immigration turning into an issue of skin-color discrimination?
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2010, 10:04:11 am »

I am aiming for Free Nashua types to have a bit of a higher profile than the Free Keniacs!  ;D

http://freenashua.com


From what I've heard Nashua is becoming more and more like Massachusetts esp. with all the immigrants moving there from Latin American countries. Nash needs to be free as well but it's becoming a haven for statists. I wouldn't let that discourage you tho.

We need to strategically pick free towns. Keene, Nashua, Concord, Manch, Grafton, Seabrook, Dover-Rochester, Laconia-Belmont, Lancaster, Conway and everywhere else.

Yeah, none of those brown-skinned people there.... ::)


Can we go a thread without a reference to immigration turning into an issue of skin-color discrimination?

Why do people believe falsehoods about immigrants if not because of some collectivist antipathy? And "antistate" did refer especially to immigrants from Latin America.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

rossby

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2010, 10:33:30 am »

Why do people believe falsehoods about immigrants if not because of some collectivist antipathy? And "antistate" did refer especially to immigrants from Latin America.

So what? Latin America doesn't have a monopoly on brown skin.

Maybe he just doesn't like piƱatas or mariachi bands. Or he thinks illegal immigrants are takin er jurbs. Perhaps his opinion is simply based on bad information. Or he thinks illegal immigrants should maybe immigrate legally. Maybe he doesn't want "American culture" to change. He can be wrong or misguided or have his own personal opinions. That doesn't make him a skin-color racist.

Now, xenophobe...
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antistate1190

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2010, 12:50:54 pm »

Your misunderstanding me. I'm not against immigrants. I'm not for sealing up borders or kicking anyone w/ "brown skin" out of NH. All I'm saying is we need to look at the reality. Immigrants are known for voting for statist candidates b/c they want more gov. services. If cities in NH like Nashua keep voting for statist policies how can we expect to create a voluntary society in NH?

I'm not just saying this about immigrants. I'm saying this about all people in NH who vote statist and I want a solution to this problem that does NOT require kicking anyone out or sealing anything up. What would be a solution?
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2010, 01:04:38 pm »

I don't think any. Voluntaryism is a positive subset of anarchy. Voting sort of works against that regardless of candidate.
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WendellBerry

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #40 on: October 20, 2010, 01:04:52 pm »

Quote
If cities in NH like Nashua keep voting for statist policies how can we expect to create a voluntary society in NH?

I'm not just saying this about immigrants. I'm saying this about all people in NH who vote statist and I want a solution to this problem...What would be a solution?

The powers that be in the industrial/military/media/prison complex and the managerial class that serve it want everyone to continue having silly left vs. right political discussions (like you are presenting re: welfare and immigration) rather than addressing the real issue of how corporations COLLUDE with the state to keep the status quo.

Create the voluntarist society within the shell of the statist society and then present viable options for ordering our lives so that people can make an easy transition when the shit hits the fan.
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antistate1190

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #41 on: October 20, 2010, 03:12:07 pm »

Quote
If cities in NH like Nashua keep voting for statist policies how can we expect to create a voluntary society in NH?

I'm not just saying this about immigrants. I'm saying this about all people in NH who vote statist and I want a solution to this problem...What would be a solution?

The powers that be in the industrial/military/media/prison complex and the managerial class that serve it want everyone to continue having silly left vs. right political discussions (like you are presenting re: welfare and immigration) rather than addressing the real issue of how corporations COLLUDE with the state to keep the status quo.

Create the voluntarist society within the shell of the statist society and then present viable options for ordering our lives so that people can make an easy transition when the shit hits the fan.

OK I agree that the problems aren't capitalism but socialism, but how do we go about showing the ppl who vote for Big Government this? People DO vote on welfare issues. They want to see the "rich capitalist bourgeoise" taxed to death so they can have welfare and buses and government-run schools and healthcare. And if more of these people move to NH then hopes at liberty will be a lot harder. I'm against immigration restriction and I dont think its immigration thats the big problem here, just statists. So how can we show people who like big government that big government destroying capitalism is the real problem?
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rossby

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #42 on: October 20, 2010, 03:19:26 pm »

All I'm saying is we need to look at the reality. Immigrants are known for voting for statist candidates b/c they want more gov. services.

Do you have data to show this is "reality"?
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #43 on: October 20, 2010, 03:21:45 pm »

You do realize government-run schools is part of the NH Constitution in its original format.
You'll also find public charity there. So somehow your expressing that those people that risked life, liberty, and property for future freedoms have no grasp of it.
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WendellBerry

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Re: Free Keeners aren't making friends
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2010, 03:34:55 pm »

Quote
If cities in NH like Nashua keep voting for statist policies how can we expect to create a voluntary society in NH?

I'm not just saying this about immigrants. I'm saying this about all people in NH who vote statist and I want a solution to this problem...What would be a solution?

The powers that be in the industrial/military/media/prison complex and the managerial class that serve it want everyone to continue having silly left vs. right political discussions (like you are presenting re: welfare and immigration) rather than addressing the real issue of how corporations COLLUDE with the state to keep the status quo.

Create the voluntarist society within the shell of the statist society and then present viable options for ordering our lives so that people can make an easy transition when the shit hits the fan.

So how can we show people who like big government that big government destroying capitalism is the real problem?

Because the so-called capitalism you are referring to is in collusion with the state.
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