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Author Topic: smoking  (Read 12505 times)

viperpilot

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smoking
« on: July 05, 2010, 06:26:56 am »

How are the smoking laws over there ? 
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lobstah

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Re: smoking
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2010, 08:32:22 am »

i'm assuming you're talking about tobacco...well, as of 3-4 years ago, you can't do it in bars or restaurants anymore :P.
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greap

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Re: smoking
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2010, 09:39:06 am »

What's the local support like for this one (outside of business and smokers)? Is it something that just slipped through or is it the work of the anti-smoking crazies making lots of noise?
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Dreepa

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Re: smoking
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2010, 10:07:57 am »

What's the local support like for this one (outside of business and smokers)? Is it something that just slipped through or is it the work of the anti-smoking crazies making lots of noise?

it was defeated the first time
but it was not just slipped thru lots and lots of anti smoking crazies came out for this one.
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lobstah

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Re: smoking
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2010, 12:15:02 pm »

What's the local support like for this one (outside of business and smokers)? Is it something that just slipped through or is it the work of the anti-smoking crazies making lots of noise?

according to the local media, and i hope this doesnt scare you away, it had like 80% support from nh residents. at least that's what i remember hearing. sickening.
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greap

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Re: smoking
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2010, 12:24:59 pm »

according to the local media, and i hope this doesnt scare you away, it had like 80% support from nh residents. at least that's what i remember hearing. sickening.

The media have a well represented bias on this issue so I wouldn't trust numbers like that unless you can read how they collected the data.

As a good example of this here the anti-smoking lobby did a survey a year after the smoking ban was passed but one of the first questions they asked was "Do you smoke", if the person answered yes then they were not asked any other questions. The result was that the media printed reports of 70% acceptance of the smoking ban, both due to bias and the media fondness for printing press releases word for word without fact checking them.

Anyway if there is an active lobby I suspect this would be a difficult one to get rid of, following the recent knife ban reversal it seems even legislation that is not particularly contentious is extremely time expensive to get rid of.
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slayerboy

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Re: smoking
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2010, 12:25:59 pm »

I think this is a tough issue because really the only way to go about changing this law is politically or if the business owner decides to practice civil disobedience.  It SHOULD be the business owner's decision to allow or not allow smoking in their establishment.  However, the stigma on tobacco smoking right now is out of control and I don't even think you would get the support of the business owners to do this politically, let alone have them partake in civil disobedience unless they are willing.

This is one of the issues that I think the FSP will have a really hard time with, and probably best to focus energy on other things to bring about more freedom. I'd really like to see the law repealed, but I just don't think it would happen.  This is probably one of the very few cons to me moving to NH since I am a smoker.  I live in NY, and I've been used to standing in zero degree weather, looking like a snowman while I smoke.  I enjoy it, what can I say? LOL
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greap

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Re: smoking
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2010, 01:16:50 pm »

I think this is a tough issue because really the only way to go about changing this law is politically or if the business owner decides to practice civil disobedience.  It SHOULD be the business owner's decision to allow or not allow smoking in their establishment.  However, the stigma on tobacco smoking right now is out of control and I don't even think you would get the support of the business owners to do this politically, let alone have them partake in civil disobedience unless they are willing.

This is one of the issues that I think the FSP will have a really hard time with, and probably best to focus energy on other things to bring about more freedom. I'd really like to see the law repealed, but I just don't think it would happen.  This is probably one of the very few cons to me moving to NH since I am a smoker.  I live in NY, and I've been used to standing in zero degree weather, looking like a snowman while I smoke.  I enjoy it, what can I say? LOL

Murphy's in Manchester has quite a nice sitting area out front for us filthy smoker types, far preferable to standing.
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FreedomFred

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Re: smoking
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2010, 01:33:37 pm »

Oh, this is a tough one. I support the right for business owners to make the determination for whether or not they will allow smoking in their establishments.

On the other hand, I am a non-smoker, and I consider that I have a right to breathe smoke-free air. I see smokers dangling their cigarettes from their car windows, fouling up the otherwise clean air I wish to enjoy with my windows down and my sun roof opened.

Then again, I don't want this to be something mommy-government settles for us. I have entertained the thought of carrying with me a squirt gun, so I can extinguish the cigarettes of any smoker that is fouling up my air!

And of course, a restaurant that allows smoking in its establishment will not be receiving business from me.

So, while I firmly support the right for business owners to make their own determinations, and for people to smoke if they wish, at the same time I wish that my right to be able to breathe smoke-free air is not impeded. And I do wish more smokers would be cognizant of that.

So, do I have a right to water-pistol a smoker's cigarette who ignores my right to smoke-free air? That is the question.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: smoking
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2010, 02:02:29 pm »

You mean a protection from retaliation for harrassing others?
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Bazil

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Re: smoking
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2010, 02:35:46 pm »

The "right" to breath clean air is a positive liberty and isn't generally a libertarian idea.  I my opinion there really isn't such thing as positive liberties.  It's just a friendly way to refer welfare programs and nanny state laws.
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BigJoe

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Re: smoking
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2010, 03:05:26 pm »

The "right" to breath clean air is a positive liberty and isn't generally a libertarian idea.  I my opinion there really isn't such thing as positive liberties.  It's just a friendly way to refer welfare programs and nanny state laws.

not true.  It all depends on who was there first.  Did the polluter homestead his right to pollute, or did the non-polluter homestead his right to breathe a certain quality of air.
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greap

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Re: smoking
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2010, 03:20:18 pm »

Oh, this is a tough one. I support the right for business owners to make the determination for whether or not they will allow smoking in their establishments.

On the other hand, I am a non-smoker, and I consider that I have a right to breathe smoke-free air. I see smokers dangling their cigarettes from their car windows, fouling up the otherwise clean air I wish to enjoy with my windows down and my sun roof opened.

Then again, I don't want this to be something mommy-government settles for us. I have entertained the thought of carrying with me a squirt gun, so I can extinguish the cigarettes of any smoker that is fouling up my air!

And of course, a restaurant that allows smoking in its establishment will not be receiving business from me.

So, while I firmly support the right for business owners to make their own determinations, and for people to smoke if they wish, at the same time I wish that my right to be able to breathe smoke-free air is not impeded. And I do wish more smokers would be cognizant of that.

So, do I have a right to water-pistol a smoker's cigarette who ignores my right to smoke-free air? That is the question.

As a breather I consider I have the right not to breathe air polluted by your CO2 from your breathing therefore you must stop breathing immediately as it is offensive to me.

No, you don't have the right to water pistol my cigarette and if you do then you will get a face full of damp cigarette for your troubles :-)
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Dreepa

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Re: smoking
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2010, 03:30:55 pm »

non smoker here.

Business owner gets to decide.... and I get to decide if I want to go to a smoking or non smoking place.

Funny this came up today I was telling my kids about it and why I will never go inside one Magarita's.  (they wanted the ban on ALL places rather than just go smoke free)
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FreedomFred

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Re: smoking
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2010, 07:49:36 pm »

Oh, this is a tough one. I support the right for business owners to make the determination for whether or not they will allow smoking in their establishments.

On the other hand, I am a non-smoker, and I consider that I have a right to breathe smoke-free air. I see smokers dangling their cigarettes from their car windows, fouling up the otherwise clean air I wish to enjoy with my windows down and my sun roof opened.

Then again, I don't want this to be something mommy-government settles for us. I have entertained the thought of carrying with me a squirt gun, so I can extinguish the cigarettes of any smoker that is fouling up my air!

And of course, a restaurant that allows smoking in its establishment will not be receiving business from me.

So, while I firmly support the right for business owners to make their own determinations, and for people to smoke if they wish, at the same time I wish that my right to be able to breathe smoke-free air is not impeded. And I do wish more smokers would be cognizant of that.

So, do I have a right to water-pistol a smoker's cigarette who ignores my right to smoke-free air? That is the question.

As a breather I consider I have the right not to breathe air polluted by your CO2 from your breathing therefore you must stop breathing immediately as it is offensive to me.

No, you don't have the right to water pistol my cigarette and if you do then you will get a face full of damp cigarette for your troubles :-)

So, if you consider the CO2 of other breathers to be offensive, how do you cope with being around anyone at all? Do you live in a cave somewhere, or on a mountaintop? Or do you order everyone around you to hold their breath as you walk by?

And do you hold your own breath, since your own CO2 might offend someone?

All kidding aside, do you not consider my right and desire not to smell and inhale cigarette smoke to be a valid one? I used to work at a company where smoking was allowed, and ventilation was poor. I came home everyday reeking and smelling of cigarette smoke. Not to mention what damage the smoke was doing to my lungs, a non-smoker.

Certainly I didn't have to work there, but it was a cool company otherwise. But apparently you, like all the smokers there, did not have the courtesy to not smoke inside where all the non-smokers are. So now many have complained to mommy-government and mommy-government has reacted in declaring all workplaces, restaurants, and many public places to be smoke-free.

So, how do you want it? Do you wish to give us non-smokers some courtesy and respect? Or would you rather have mommy government swoop in to protect my lungs from your smoke -- and maybe get a little overzealous in the process? I would much rather have the former. What's your choice?
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