Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan  (Read 11826 times)

BigJoe

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 363
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 10:33:55 pm »

another thing, what happens when the counter hits 20,000.  Does it stop accepting pledges?  I would certainly hope not. I think its obvious to everyone that not every last signer of the SoI is going to actually move, so if the goal is to get 20,000 movers, I would think we would need a lot more signers.
Logged

FreeStyle

  • Guest
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 02:32:42 pm »

maybe that's when the FSP 2 starts. . . .
Logged

10stateswithnh

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • Liberty Lover on New Hampshire seacoast
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 02:53:18 pm »

thats something that is a bit confusing.  If say for instance I move in the next two months, does that make me part of the "First 1000" even though I didn't sign the first 1,000 pledge?  Why is there a 'next 1000' before the first thousand?    Is there a different count for 'pledge to move within quickly approaching x year'  and 'actually moved to NH after y number of people already had' ?

Depends on if you're counting pledgers or movers, and yes you're right that there is some confusion. You're never going to get the two numbers to be the same (in other words 100% of the pledgers to move by the deadline? In a movement of free people? Please.). There is a next 1000 because the first 1000 deadline passed and had the number of signers they were looking for. The Next 1000, by the way, was not done by the Free State Project, unlike the First 1000, but by a self-starting individual, Max Abramson, and I for one am very glad he did it, as it gives me something to sign to say when I plan to move, and a means to publicize that move.

Although I picked a date when I wanted to move when I signed the FSP Statement of Intent, there really isn't a website with them to promote the date I chose, and Max's pledge helped me narrow down the dates of my move as well. If you don't like the name, you certainly don't have to sign it, but if the only reason you don't sign it is because the First 1000 haven't all moved, that seems to me like focusing on semantics rather than substance (Actually I understand a whole bunch of people have moved and not updated their addresses after moving - any decentralized liberty movement is going to have some people get lost in the cracks like this - I certainly prefer this to someone having a central database and spying on everyone).

I am glad people who want to move have something to sign besides the FSP SOI, you can do your own pledge if you don't like the wording or name of ours. Signing the first 1000 wouldn't make sense now because you would be pledging to move by 2008.

If you can design a pledge that wouldn't have the problems you are complaining about, go ahead. It seems to me it would have to be open-ended (ie no signup deadline, no date when signers are supposed to move, if the idea is to leave it running until, say, 2000 people have ACTUALLY moved - and I don't see how such an open-ended pledge would actually accomplish anything in terms of encouraging people to move, rather it would just be a way to try to clean up the messiness of having two different numbers. If you are one of those personality types that has to organize everything - and we need all of the types, I don't mean that as a put-down - I hope you will move and focus on more important issues). The point of this is to get people to move sooner, and even if we don't get 1000 people to sign, we will still accomplish that goal. Personally, I'll be happy to have a few people to caravan with me. Actually, if the Free State Now project is successful we will have a lot of new FSP signers shortly, so that would be an important group to promote this to.

I look forward to seeing you in the Free(r) State, no matter what pledges you decide to create, sign or boycott!
Logged
Bryce in Rochester
States I have lived in:
PA, DE, WA, ME, SC, NY, GA, UT, CO, NH as of Sep 2011!

10stateswithnh

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • Liberty Lover on New Hampshire seacoast
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2010, 02:56:18 pm »

maybe that's when the FSP 2 starts. . . .

Or someone who believes in getting active for freedom will create another pledge.
Logged
Bryce in Rochester
States I have lived in:
PA, DE, WA, ME, SC, NY, GA, UT, CO, NH as of Sep 2011!

Dreepa

  • First 1000
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5124
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2010, 02:59:25 pm »

thats something that is a bit confusing.  If say for instance I move in the next two months, does that make me part of the "First 1000" even though I didn't sign the first 1,000 pledge?  Why is there a 'next 1000' before the first thousand?    Is there a different count for 'pledge to move within quickly approaching x year'  and 'actually moved to NH after y number of people already had' ?

The 'First 1000' was an official plan to get 1000 people to AGREE to move to NH before the end of 2008.

1000 people did sign up so the pledge was successful but obviously 1000 have not moved to NH yet.


The next 1000 is an unofficial group to get people here by sept 2011.   It will probably fail in getting 1000 signers.
Logged

10stateswithnh

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • Liberty Lover on New Hampshire seacoast
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2010, 03:50:09 pm »

Unless the Free State Now is really successful, and we can get a bunch of those new FSP signers to move that quickly, I agree.
Logged
Bryce in Rochester
States I have lived in:
PA, DE, WA, ME, SC, NY, GA, UT, CO, NH as of Sep 2011!

BigJoe

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 363
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2010, 04:23:52 pm »

yes well I had already signed the next 1,000, I just find it strange that I will be within the first 1,000 movers.

What are the numbers on the first 1,000?  How many movers were there when it started?  How many actually moved by the date?  How many of those signed the first 1,000?


I think maybe a better format would just be   a "Move by X date" pledge.   And just have people promise to move by x date, and let that number be whatever it is, but also allow people to put in caveats, of "I will only move by x date if . . . "  but with the most popular if being the number of signers of this pledge are Y, by X minus  6 months or a year date.
Logged

Dreepa

  • First 1000
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5124
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2010, 04:32:33 pm »

yes well I had already signed the next 1,000, I just find it strange that I will be within the first 1,000 movers.

What are the numbers on the first 1,000?  How many movers were there when it started?  How many actually moved by the date?  How many of those signed the first 1,000?


I think 256 were in NH when the vote occured. (250ish)  so about 650ish movers
There are some people  who moved to NH and moved out.
Some people haven't updated their status.
Some people who moved and who never joined the FSP.
Logged

maxxoccupancy

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3659
  • Evil prevails when good men don't vote Libertarian
    • fija.org
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2010, 06:34:51 pm »

I signed up for the Next 1000, but that was before I went to Porcfest this year.  I am going to try my hardest to be within the first 1000 movers, but timing is everything.

Of the "First 1,000" signers (I was number 12--then told that my name didn't take, and had to re-sign), most who weren't already here never moved--and probably never will.  (A few folks said that they would not do anything for the Next 1,000 until all of the First 1,000 movers had made it in.) The folks who were discussing a "second wave" or "second 1,000" during the Ron Paul campaign wanted to tap into the Operation Live Free or Die folks and Ron Paul publicity to get a lot of new folks in. 

The First 1,000 (and the Next 1,000) wasn't about the main counter, but a secondary pledge for folks wanting to get here right away.  The FSP Board's pledge doesn't take effect until we reach 20,000 signers, which should happen some time around 2030, at the current rate of new signers.

The First 1,000 had the official endorsement and support of the FSP Board.  The Next 1,000 has reached its current mark strictly as a grass roots effort by participants--and against some early opposition by the Board.
Logged
If you are interested in putting together an IT-creative firm to help provide jobs for liberty folks in the future, send me a Personal Message.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

FreeStyle

  • Guest
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2010, 08:53:13 pm »

lol @ folks
Logged

10stateswithnh

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • Liberty Lover on New Hampshire seacoast
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2010, 04:55:06 pm »


(A few folks said that they would not do anything for the Next 1,000 until all of the First 1,000 movers had made it in.)

This seems like a counter-productive attitude to take (pun not intended  ;)), since I find it very useful to have a pledge with a specific deadline with number of people agreeing to that deadline easily visible on the internet (whether or not we ever reach the goal for number of signers).

Insisting on all the first 1000 moving first is guaranteeing a second 1000 pledge would never happen. I will go out on a limb and say I agree, there will NEVER be a point in time at which 100% of the first 1000 pledge signers have moved - if by some remotely unlikely scenario it happens, it will be too late for a next 1000 pledge to be useful.

Therefore, by taking that attitude, a person is expecting the first phase to operate perfectly before allowing a second phase to even exist. Ridiculous. You might be able to wait until 1000 people have moved, but they won't all be signers of the First 1000 pledge, but I don't see the point of even that except an obsession with mathematical precision, not really practical when it comes to human interactions. And I say this as a person who loves math! :)
Logged
Bryce in Rochester
States I have lived in:
PA, DE, WA, ME, SC, NY, GA, UT, CO, NH as of Sep 2011!

Dreepa

  • First 1000
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5124
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2010, 05:03:38 pm »


(A few folks said that they would not do anything for the Next 1,000 until all of the First 1,000 movers had made it in.)

This seems like a counter-productive attitude to take (pun not intended  ;)), since I find it very useful to have a pledge with a specific deadline with number of people agreeing to that deadline easily visible on the internet (whether or not we ever reach the goal for number of signers).

Insisting on all the first 1000 moving first is guaranteeing a second 1000 pledge would never happen. I will go out on a limb and say I agree, there will NEVER be a point in time at which 100% of the first 1000 pledge signers have moved - if by some remotely unlikely scenario it happens, it will be too late for a next 1000 pledge to be useful.

Therefore, by taking that attitude, a person is expecting the first phase to operate perfectly before allowing a second phase to even exist. Ridiculous. You might be able to wait until 1000 people have moved, but they won't all be signers of the First 1000 pledge, but I don't see the point of even that except an obsession with mathematical precision, not really practical when it comes to human interactions. And I say this as a person who loves math! :)

I think part of it is....
that libertarians set huge lofty goals.... fail... and then set another huge lofty goal.

better to set smaller achievable goals and learn from previous mistakes.
Logged

10stateswithnh

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
  • Liberty Lover on New Hampshire seacoast
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2010, 05:12:25 pm »

For the future, what kind of pledge goal would seem more realistic to you, Dreepa, after we pass the signup deadline for the Next 1000 pledge? 500? 200? Or something structured in a completely different way? I agree and I think learning from our failures can be a wonderful thing (I'm just not ready to give up on the Next 1000 thing yet but if it doesn't reach its goal, it still helped me to move so I'm ok with that).

Edit: It seems like, if it does fail, it will be because it expected too many people to move in a certain time period, where most of the movement has been more slow and steady. Honing that expectation is good, but so is finding ways to motivate people to move sooner. For me, the pledge does that. I'm interested in finding other ways to motivate people to move sooner too, any suggestions welcome.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2010, 05:15:58 pm by 10stateswithnh »
Logged
Bryce in Rochester
States I have lived in:
PA, DE, WA, ME, SC, NY, GA, UT, CO, NH as of Sep 2011!

FreeStyle

  • Guest
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2010, 04:59:36 pm »

I will laugh heartilly when the next 1000 caravan comes and they are welcomed as part of the first 1000
Logged

KBCraig

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1466
Re: Next 1000 Liberty Caravan
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2010, 09:43:26 pm »

I will laugh heartilly when the next 1000 caravan comes and they are welcomed as part of the first 1000

I think you could poll the various forums and groups and random gatherings of Free-Staters, and easily add up 164 who moved without notifying the FSP, or moved without even joining the FSP. I'm not the only one who thinks the "official movers" counter is at least 20% low.

Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up