Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum  (Read 13730 times)

"Hagrid"

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • We don't need 20K... we just need you to move now.
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2010, 06:22:16 am »

Actually, it was I who asked for cooperation, and it was YOU who said do it my way or enjoy the wilderness.

Nice way to attempt to rewrite history, dude, but the forum posts show otherwise.

Quote
You were supported in your opinion (publicly) by just one other person, while I received tons of support for my effort, both publicly and privately.

Varrin called you on the carpet for your actions (a very unusual thing coming from him), or have you decided to forget that?  Did you want him to do that publically?  I was being polite by not stating that, but if you are going to make claims, let the truth be out.

Quote
You did not ask me to cooperate with YOU on YOUR IDEA of making the PorcFest section of the FSP website better.
You simply shat on MY IDEA and said "do it how I want you to do it"

Whatever, Curtis.  I offered the entire FSP IT team, not just me, to help you, so the posts clearly show.  You refused, so the posts clearly show.  You insisted on doing it your way, for your reasons.  Now you want to claim the reverse, and be the guy who was shat on?

Sovereign Curtis

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
  • I <3 PorcFest
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2010, 04:25:27 pm »

Actually, it was I who asked for cooperation, and it was YOU who said do it my way or enjoy the wilderness.

Nice way to attempt to rewrite history, dude, but the forum posts show otherwise.

Quote
You were supported in your opinion (publicly) by just one other person, while I received tons of support for my effort, both publicly and privately.

Varrin called you on the carpet for your actions (a very unusual thing coming from him), or have you decided to forget that?  Did you want him to do that publically?  I was being polite by not stating that, but if you are going to make claims, let the truth be out.

Quote
You did not ask me to cooperate with YOU on YOUR IDEA of making the PorcFest section of the FSP website better.
You simply shat on MY IDEA and said "do it how I want you to do it"

Whatever, Curtis.  I offered the entire FSP IT team, not just me, to help you, so the posts clearly show.  You refused, so the posts clearly show.  You insisted on doing it your way, for your reasons.  Now you want to claim the reverse, and be the guy who was shat on?


Quote
In fact, if you'd like it done on the FSP site, please feel free to offer to pay me (and Dan, and Jon, and Rich, and ... and all of the other folks who DO work on the Website usually for free...) 
If you have no money, but have time and skills, you can do it yourself - we'd love to have you help

"Pay me, or do it yourself."

Quote
If you want to make PorcFest.com rock, you can... just build on top of what we can do with the FSP site already. 
Half of what you want, I can do pretty easily.
The problem isn't ability, isn't capability, it's time/money/volunteerism.

Proved you wrong...

Quote
So rather than cooperate and make the one official FSP site better, you've decided to do your own thing and reinvent the wheel.  Fine, your right but a waste of time and resources toward the future of PFs and a better FSP site.  No wonder the collectivists keep winning.

Perhaps the next porcfest's crew will learn to cooperate better with others.  It's clear that this year it's far too late for major improvements anyway...

"You're efforts suck and have been worthless"
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 01:11:29 am by Freedomroad »
Logged
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

Sovereign Curtis

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
  • I <3 PorcFest
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2010, 05:32:15 pm »

BTW, remember how YOU were OSTRACIZING ME? And you told ME not to come any where near you, yours or events you were organizing?

Well guess fucking what?

I've spent the last 300 days promoting, and helping to organize PorcFest...


Feel free to stay home.
Logged
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

Surrealpolichick

  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 53
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2010, 10:05:54 pm »

Wow! Curtis is trying to steal Porc Fest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lol, no. More like he is an awesome volunteer and took ownership, which is awesome. Well, Carla "owns" PorcFest, but who knows, her reign cannot last forever ;)



Bwaaaahhhhaaaaaaahaaa. My reign lasts as long as I can keep a lid on the prince. LOL. Everyone, really, play nice. Why? 'Cos the Queen Quill hath spoken. And bc PorcFest is going to ROCK DA HOUSE, and we really need to pull together, not apart. Now repeat after me: together, together, together, giant bags of herded cats. But HERDED, you HEAR me????? lol
Logged

"Hagrid"

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • We don't need 20K... we just need you to move now.
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2010, 01:27:58 pm »

I'm letting this drop after this because Carla asked for peace, and I intend to keep that peace. 

But I do need to clarify one thing here... because you've implied something entirely wrong about me and my volunteerism here when you pulled this out of context:

Quote
In fact, if you'd like it done on the FSP site, please feel free to offer to pay me (and Dan, and Jon, and Rich, and ... and all of the other folks who DO work on the Website usually for free...) 
If you have no money, but have time and skills, you can do it yourself - we'd love to have you help

"Pay me, or do it yourself."

So let's quote the entire thing, shall we?

Quote
If you'd like to spend time/energy on doing cool stuff on the FSP site, there is plenty that can be done.
Please don't reinvent the wheel yet again.  We don't have enough volunteers for the current IT team.
I'd much rather see folks do something within the FSP website, specifically for PorcFest, and get involved here, than start another web project, and split the efforts even worse.

All of Curtis's suggestions can be done using our current website... Heck, I know this, because I get paid to do things like that.  In fact, if you'd like it done on the FSP site, please feel free to offer to pay me (and Dan, and Jon, and Rich, and ... and all of the other folks who DO work on the Website usually for free...)  If you have no money, but have time and skills, you can do it yourself - we'd love to have you help.  If you have no skills, we use Drupal, there are plenty of books and tutorials, spend your time learning, and learn as you help us!

So what was I saying?  "Hey, join the team (you and whomever else want to work on PF2010 web stuff), work with us, we don't have enough volunteers, and the ones we do have don't have the available volunteer time to take this on, so either pay (wow, money, fair exchange of labor anyone?) so someone with the needed skills can afford to do this work you'd like to see happen, or volunteer yourself, and we'd be welcome the help and help you to help us."

A FAR cry from the way you intentionally pullquoted only the above, to make it sounds like I wanted to be paid or you could get lost.

Denis said the near same thing to you in this thread: hey, rather than complain, help make the changes happen.... and you don't seem to want to actually do that.

Ostracism aside, I seem to recall my being civil to you at LF... we don't have to hang out together by any means... and as someone (you?) pointed out I cannot control which events you attend if they are public, anymore than you can control which events I attend.
I gotta show up to defend my SoapBox Idol title...
I'm sure we'll see each other at PF, and we can be civil, even if we don't get along, right?

I'm done.... see you at PF!

Sovereign Curtis

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
  • I <3 PorcFest
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2010, 03:48:44 pm »

I'm letting this drop after this because Carla asked for peace, and I intend to keep that peace. 

But I do need to clarify one thing here... because you've implied something entirely wrong about me and my volunteerism here when you pulled this out of context:

Quote
In fact, if you'd like it done on the FSP site, please feel free to offer to pay me (and Dan, and Jon, and Rich, and ... and all of the other folks who DO work on the Website usually for free...) 
If you have no money, but have time and skills, you can do it yourself - we'd love to have you help

"Pay me, or do it yourself."

So let's quote the entire thing, shall we?

Quote
If you'd like to spend time/energy on doing cool stuff on the FSP site, there is plenty that can be done.
Please don't reinvent the wheel yet again.  We don't have enough volunteers for the current IT team.
I'd much rather see folks do something within the FSP website, specifically for PorcFest, and get involved here, than start another web project, and split the efforts even worse.

All of Curtis's suggestions can be done using our current website... Heck, I know this, because I get paid to do things like that.  In fact, if you'd like it done on the FSP site, please feel free to offer to pay me (and Dan, and Jon, and Rich, and ... and all of the other folks who DO work on the Website usually for free...)  If you have no money, but have time and skills, you can do it yourself - we'd love to have you help.  If you have no skills, we use Drupal, there are plenty of books and tutorials, spend your time learning, and learn as you help us!

So what was I saying?  "Hey, join the team (you and whomever else want to work on PF2010 web stuff), work with us, we don't have enough volunteers, and the ones we do have don't have the available volunteer time to take this on, so either pay (wow, money, fair exchange of labor anyone?) so someone with the needed skills can afford to do this work you'd like to see happen, or volunteer yourself, and we'd be welcome the help and help you to help us."

A FAR cry from the way you intentionally pullquoted only the above, to make it sounds like I wanted to be paid or you could get lost.

Denis said the near same thing to you in this thread: hey, rather than complain, help make the changes happen.... and you don't seem to want to actually do that.

Ostracism aside, I seem to recall my being civil to you at LF... we don't have to hang out together by any means... and as someone (you?) pointed out I cannot control which events you attend if they are public, anymore than you can control which events I attend.
I gotta show up to defend my SoapBox Idol title...
I'm sure we'll see each other at PF, and we can be civil, even if we don't get along, right?

I'm done.... see you at PF!

I seriously see no difference between the full and select quote. The full quote is just you giving your opinion, and excuses why it can't be done by the FSP IT group.

NO ONE with any clout approached me prior to the creation of the website to say "This is ours, we'd prefer you not do it that way".
(Maybe it was assumed I was full of hot air, or that this really wasnt going to happen. Let it be a lesson: I get shit done.)

Obviously from your whole "there isnt enough time/money/volunteers" you SERIOUSLY did not think it was possible another way.

I DELIGHTED IN PROVING YOU WRONG.

Seriously, the two people in the community I have a problem with said "I dont like your idea" and you're surprised I did it anyway? That was waving a red flag in front of a bull!
(In fact, you two PLEASE feel free to criticize and poo-poo on all my ideas, it motivates me so!)

PS Re: Reinventing the wheel. Let me know if you'd prefer I didnt do things like create an awesome PorcFest map,
OUTSIDE of the official channels, and would prefer going back to a small black and white map only, inside program.
Many times, better is just plain better. And fear of the unknown is no reason not to strive to improve.

"Don't reinvent the wheel"  Really? But my wheel will get you 20 more miles per gallon! Look! Its a steel hub, with a rubber tire! What? You still want to keep those skinny wooden wagon wheels? Well, I suppose that if you aren't going to upgrade from your horse, thats your choice. But I think I'll embrace technology, and change, and use it to my advantage...



Re: PorcFest. No, I honestly wouldn't dream of trying to leverage my involvement to exclude folks whom I agree with on so much, just because we do not get along on a personal level. So let me withdraw that sentiment/insinuation, that was really just me throwing your words back in your face. You were very friendly to me when the opportunity struck (although I resent you using that as an example later on of how loved you are in the Anarchist crowd, almost completely invalidated the good will), I thanked you then, I thanked you later, and I'll thank you again now. Thank you.


I anxiously look forward to EVERYONE having the time of their life at PorcFest 2010. Want to upset me? Just wear a frown all week/end. But if you smile, I win. That was my goal.
Logged
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

artienewport

  • FSP Participant
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 164
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2010, 05:48:30 pm »

I wish the complainers would stop complaining and let the FSP flourish instead of stagnating. You've had control for 7 years now, and the whole organization has just stagnated. Curtis has gone out of his way to make this the BEST Porc Fest ever. Yet a handful of complainers have stopped the fun from happening again.

Curtis, when are you running for FSP President? I think you're a man that can make a lot of changes for the better.
Logged

greap

  • First 1000
  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1009
  • What we have here is a failure to communicate
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2010, 06:18:15 pm »

Curtis, when are you running for FSP President? I think you're a man that can make a lot of changes for the better.

+1
Logged
_____________________________________________________________

Sovereign Curtis

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
  • I <3 PorcFest
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2010, 07:39:59 pm »

Curtis, when are you running for FSP President? I think you're a man that can make a lot of changes for the better.

+1

LOL

"Felonious Anarchist Takes Control of Free State Project"

ha ha ha, can anyone count the number of contradictions in that headline?
Logged
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

artienewport

  • FSP Participant
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 164
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2010, 07:52:06 pm »

Curtis, when are you running for FSP President? I think you're a man that can make a lot of changes for the better.

+1

LOL

"Felonious Anarchist Takes Control of Free State Project"

ha ha ha, can anyone count the number of contradictions in that headline?

Can you count the number of cool, motivated people that would be motivated to move to NH by such a headline?
Logged

Sovereign Curtis

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
  • I <3 PorcFest
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2010, 08:00:58 pm »

Curtis, when are you running for FSP President? I think you're a man that can make a lot of changes for the better.

+1

LOL

"Felonious Anarchist Takes Control of Free State Project"

ha ha ha, can anyone count the number of contradictions in that headline?

Can you count the number of cool, motivated people that would be motivated to move to NH by such a headline?

Ah shit, you're right...
Logged
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

"Hagrid"

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • We don't need 20K... we just need you to move now.
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2010, 09:45:25 pm »

I seriously see no difference between the full and select quote.

Then perhaps you need to listen more.

Quote
NO ONE with any clout approached me prior to the creation of the website to say "This is ours, we'd prefer you not do it that way".
(Maybe it was assumed I was full of hot air, or that this really wasnt going to happen. Let it be a lesson: I get shit done.)

You really don't understand how the FSP works, dude.

Who did you expect to _stop_ you?  And how?  You really need to reread what Varrin wrote to you.
Nobody with 'clout'?  Yeah, you really need to reread what he wrote to you.

Quote
Obviously from your whole "there isnt enough time/money/volunteers" you SERIOUSLY did not think it was possible another way.
I DELIGHTED IN PROVING YOU WRONG.

You IDIOT, you didn't prove me WRONG, you proved me correct.  You proved that it's entirely possible to have folks ignore all of the work done so far, and start over again, ignoring the long term needs of the org, wasting time and resources and being unable to grow the org's sorely needed team of people to help the site improve in a timely manner, which is what you bitched about to begin with here...

YOU PROVED ME RIGHT, YOU FOOL.

Quote
Seriously, the two people in the community I have a problem with said "I dont like your idea" and you're surprised I did it anyway? That was waving a red flag in front of a bull!
(In fact, you two PLEASE feel free to criticize and poo-poo on all my ideas, it motivates me so!)

PS Re: Reinventing the wheel. Let me know if you'd prefer I didnt do things like create an awesome PorcFest map,
OUTSIDE of the official channels, and would prefer going back to a small black and white map only, inside program.
Many times, better is just plain better. And fear of the unknown is no reason not to strive to improve.

"Don't reinvent the wheel"  Really? But my wheel will get you 20 more miles per gallon! Look! Its a steel hub, with a rubber tire! What? You still want to keep those skinny wooden wagon wheels? Well, I suppose that if you aren't going to upgrade from your horse, thats your choice. But I think I'll embrace technology, and change, and use it to my advantage...

You fail to recognize the difference between valuable and wasted resources.  Full color map of porcfest?  Yeah, that's pretty but it's not valuable.  It's a nice map, Curtis, I said so on FB.  But a map of PF is good for 2-3 days, and then it's waste, just like the PF site you insisted on building, rather than building something to last a few years and work with the rest of the FSP website for little tiny unimportant things, like actually getting folks to sign up for the FSP.  Oh right, that's the point of the FSP, isn't it?

Quote
Re: PorcFest. No, I honestly wouldn't dream of trying to leverage my involvement to exclude folks whom I agree with on so much, just because we do not get along on a personal level. So let me withdraw that sentiment/insinuation, that was really just me throwing your words back in your face. You were very friendly to me when the opportunity struck (although I resent you using that as an example later on of how loved you are in the Anarchist crowd, almost completely invalidated the good will), I thanked you then, I thanked you later, and I'll thank you again now. Thank you.

And I didn't mention names when I brought it up, nor use it as a example of how 'loved' I am, so you really didn't get why I brought that up when I did.  It was an example of _ethical conduct_, something perhaps you don't understand either.  Clearly very few on that thread did understand it, sadly.

Quote
I anxiously look forward to EVERYONE having the time of their life at PorcFest 2010. Want to upset me? Just wear a frown all week/end. But if you smile, I win. That was my goal.

My happiness has little to do with our differences, and I've enjoyed PF already for more years then you've been around.

I really wanted to leave this alone... I said I would.  Sorry, Carla.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 01:12:36 am by Freedomroad »
Logged

Pat K

  • First 1000
  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1186
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2010, 12:51:59 am »

I just want to say= My Popcorn bill is getting enormous.  >:D
Logged
"It's not all gonna be candy and blow-jobs"-Dale



Jason Osborne ‎"Fighting for reduction of government" is kind of like smashing your dick in a car door to reduce the pain of smashing your dick in the car door, and then getting pissed at the folks who don't want to smash their dicks in car doors as if it is their fault that your dick hurts.

"I don't recommend looking towards a government building if you don't want to see indecent behavior."  --Russell Kanning

Sovereign Curtis

  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
  • I <3 PorcFest
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2010, 12:12:36 pm »

I seriously see no difference between the full and select quote.

Then perhaps you need to listen more.


Listen to your text opinion more, you got it (way to avoid that...) "My opinion, my opinion, sour milk, wah wah"

Quote
Quote
NO ONE with any clout approached me prior to the creation of the website to say "This is ours, we'd prefer you not do it that way".
(Maybe it was assumed I was full of hot air, or that this really wasnt going to happen. Let it be a lesson: I get shit done.)

You really don't understand how the FSP works, dude.

Who did you expect to _stop_ you?  And how?  You really need to reread what Varrin wrote to you.
Nobody with 'clout'?  Yeah, you really need to reread what he wrote to you.


Its obvious now that I need not expect anyone to try to stop me. Perhaps some fools will attempt to get in my way (ahem), but I only expect them to get run over.
And then whine about how butthurt they are (ahem).

Quote
Quote
Obviously from your whole "there isnt enough time/money/volunteers" you SERIOUSLY did not think it was possible another way.
I DELIGHTED IN PROVING YOU WRONG.

You idiot, you didn't prove me WRONG, you proved me correct.  You proved that it's entirely possible to have folks ignore all of the work done so far, and start over again, ignoring the long term needs of the org, wasting time and resources and being unable to grow the org's sorely needed team of people to help the site improve in a timely manner, which is what you bitched about to begin with here...

YOU PROVED ME RIGHT, YOU FOOL.


Yea this whole meme is getting REALLY old. I built upon what came before, without regards to intellectual property, cry about it some more.

Quote
Quote
Seriously, the two people in the community I have a problem with said "I dont like your idea" and you're surprised I did it anyway? That was waving a red flag in front of a bull!
(In fact, you two PLEASE feel free to criticize and poo-poo on all my ideas, it motivates me so!)

PS Re: Reinventing the wheel. Let me know if you'd prefer I didnt do things like create an awesome PorcFest map,
OUTSIDE of the official channels, and would prefer going back to a small black and white map only, inside program.
Many times, better is just plain better. And fear of the unknown is no reason not to strive to improve.

"Don't reinvent the wheel"  Really? But my wheel will get you 20 more miles per gallon! Look! Its a steel hub, with a rubber tire! What? You still want to keep those skinny wooden wagon wheels? Well, I suppose that if you aren't going to upgrade from your horse, thats your choice. But I think I'll embrace technology, and change, and use it to my advantage...

You fail to recognize the difference between valuable and wasted resources.  Full color map of porcfest?  Yeah, that's pretty but it's not valuable.  It's a nice map, Curtis, I said so on FB.  But a map of PF is good for 2-3 days, and then it's waste, just like the PF site you insisted on building, rather than building something to last a few years and work with the rest of the FSP website for little tiny unimportant things, like actually getting folks to sign up for the FSP.  Oh right, that's the point of the FSP, isn't it?


Whats that? PorcFest is worthless when it comes to getting folks to make the move? Really? So spending massive amounts of time and effort to make it as awesome as can be, WONT encourage folks that this is the place they want to be? Hhhmmm, maybe we should ask all the folks who moved during/after PorcFest and see what they think (I'm one...)
PS I didnt move to New Hampshire to get sign-ups. I came to get shit done. Don't ever forget it.

Quote
Quote
Re: PorcFest. No, I honestly wouldn't dream of trying to leverage my involvement to exclude folks whom I agree with on so much, just because we do not get along on a personal level. So let me withdraw that sentiment/insinuation, that was really just me throwing your words back in your face. You were very friendly to me when the opportunity struck (although I resent you using that as an example later on of how loved you are in the Anarchist crowd, almost completely invalidated the good will), I thanked you then, I thanked you later, and I'll thank you again now. Thank you.

And I didn't mention names when I brought it up, nor use it as a example of how 'loved' I am, so you really didn't get why I brought that up when I did.  It was an example of _ethical conduct_, something perhaps you don't understand either.  Clearly very few on that thread did understand it, sadly.


Seth, you used it as a self-congratulatory example, because no one else was stepping up to pat you on the back. "Look at me, I'm good! Really!"

Quote
Quote
I anxiously look forward to EVERYONE having the time of their life at PorcFest 2010. Want to upset me? Just wear a frown all week/end. But if you smile, I win. That was my goal.

My happiness has little to do with our differences, and I've enjoyed PF already for more years then you've been around.

I really wanted to leave this alone... I said I would.  Sorry, Carla.


"I was here first!" lol



PS       Community >>> ORG
Logged
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

Russell Kanning

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3531
    • We must be the change we wish to see in the world.
Re: Small, very helpful changes for free state forum
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2010, 12:42:22 pm »

I just want to say= My Popcorn bill is getting enormous.  >:D
sometimes i come on this forum and am amazed
is this how geeks fight?
it looks like a slap fight during a NBA game :o
Logged
The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 

anything