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Author Topic: Immorality of Free Trade  (Read 5913 times)

maybesomeday

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Re: Immorality of Free Trade
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2010, 06:56:20 pm »

Unless however your trade is some how only beneficial to yourself and not your enemy.

that is impossible in the ex ante

Only if knowledge were symmetric and perfect.

no. Value is subjective.  If both parties didn't think they were gaining from the trade, they wouldn't have made it.

Clearly one of the parties would have to have the perception that they were gaining when in reality they were not.

Trade isn't always zero sum.  If I have 10 hammers but no nails and you have 1000 nails but no hammers, there are trades that can be made which will make us both better off.
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Bazil

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Re: Immorality of Free Trade
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2010, 07:34:38 pm »

Unless however your trade is some how only beneficial to yourself and not your enemy.

that is impossible in the ex ante

Only if knowledge were symmetric and perfect.

no. Value is subjective.  If both parties didn't think they were gaining from the trade, they wouldn't have made it.

Clearly one of the parties would have to have the perception that they were gaining when in reality they were not.

Trade isn't always zero sum.  If I have 10 hammers but no nails and you have 1000 nails but no hammers, there are trades that can be made which will make us both better off.

Never said there wasn't.  The vast majority of all trades result in a + for both parties.
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BigJoe

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Re: Immorality of Free Trade
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2010, 07:49:34 pm »

If a trade is made, both parties valued whatever they got (which is not limited to simply the actual 'thing' purchased or service performed) more than what they gave up at the time of the trade.

At the time the trade is made.

Unless however your trade is some how only beneficial to yourself and not your enemy.

that is impossible in the ex ante

Only if knowledge were symmetric and perfect.

no. Value is subjective.  If both parties didn't think they were gaining from the trade, they wouldn't have made it.

Time passes; valuations change. See the link I posted above.

thats why I said ex ante

Right. But valuations can (and often do) change after the transaction.

You're talking about whether a trade will take place.
We're talking about whether an "enemy" can make a trade that will ultimately not be a benefit to him.
Without perfect information, your enemy cannot say what he will regret in the future.
I suppose information does not need to be strictly symmetric.

But you don't know what you will regret in the future either.

I don't really see how much of an effect someone can have on their enemies subjective value scale.  Its a really strange thing to consider.  Further, if you are trading with someone, then you aren't exactly treating them like an enemy.


I guess an example would be:

A hates B
B used to smoke, but quit after taxes were raised
A agrees to sell cigarettes to be at the pre tax hike price (eating the tax himself)

A gains because he think he is contributing to the demise of his enemy (by eventually giving him lung cancer)
B gains because he thinks he is taking A for a sucker, getting cheaper cigarettes
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Luck

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Re: Immorality of Free Trade
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2010, 08:40:00 pm »

* Is it agreed that:
1. Anyone who steals anyone's property and sells it is selling stolen property and anyone knowingly buying such stolen property is participating in theft?
2. forced taxes on salaries & personal property etc is theft?
3. and doing business with government is participating in theft? [at least if one is not forced to do business with government]
[4. also, doing business with those who control the government is participating in theft? and large corporations control government?]
* Of course, it's worse than just theft; one is participating in harming and murdering others too. Theft harms others and can kill others indirectly, but I'm referring to direct harm and murder, as via war, police abuse etc.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2010, 08:55:18 pm by Luck »
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rossby

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Re: Immorality of Free Trade
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2010, 09:17:47 pm »

But you don't know what you will regret in the future either.

Correct.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Immorality of Free Trade
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2010, 10:44:52 pm »

Large corporations do not control government. They may at times appear to have more sway, but that is largely because of the number of voters they represent.

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