Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Poll

What type of software licensing is the most compatible with your philosophy?

Closed source
- 7 (17.9%)
Open source - copyleft
- 11 (28.2%)
Open source - permissive
- 21 (53.8%)

Total Members Voted: 24


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Software Philosophy  (Read 63093 times)

"Hagrid"

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1657
  • We don't need 20K... we just need you to move now.
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2010, 03:10:39 pm »

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2010, 07:51:37 pm »

There's nothing "free market" about "intellectual property" in general, and this example of anti-open-source bullying makes me sick.  Just another case of our semi-socialist government being used as a weapon by the politically-connected against their competitors.  :(

There is, however, an ounce of truth to the argument that FLOSS software is paid for by the tax-victims, and a lot more so than would initially appear.  A lot of European college students are able to give away their work for free only because they're suckling on the government's teet.  (Notice how a disproportionally high fraction of free software comes from Scandinavia / Netherlands?)  A lot of free software components started out as copies or re-writes of university software (most notably from Berkeley and Universiteit van Amsterdam).  Companies like IBM and Google might also be encouraged by their relationship with the government in some shady ways...

I was recently banned from a major Linux forum for even suggesting that the Linux desktop market share numbers might be unfairly inflated as countries like Cuba, Venezuela, Burma, etc get computerized, because users in those countries can face restricted access to Microsoft, Apple, and other "capitalist" software products...
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 07:54:36 pm by Alex Libman »
Logged

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2010, 06:05:16 am »

I think my (unrequited) e-mails to Theo de Raadt calling him a Randian hero and stuff might have went to his head a little bit...



From OpenBSD 4.7's release song  [MP3]  [OGG]:

Some say that I'm a hero
But I'm just being me
With my filter I can hide
My true identity

Heh...  ;)
Logged

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2010, 04:32:36 pm »

After yet another phase of Windows and Linux distro-hopping, I'm back on FreeBSD.  Like I've said on another thread, if there is to be a "libertarian operating system" fork someday, FreeBSD is the most likely base for it.  The anti-copyleft movement is gradually starting to pick up some steam - check out the following sites:




I'm also a big fan of something called Time-limited Hybrid Source.
Logged

KoryLGriffin

  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
    • Native Americans
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2010, 04:10:16 pm »

I don't understand the difference between the two open source options...

Open source is my choice.

 :)
Logged

CurtHowland

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 533
  • Mover #902. If not for the deer, maybe #901!
    • Anarchy != Chaos
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2010, 04:45:24 pm »

I don't understand the difference between the two open source options...

The Gnu Public License places requirements for the redistribution of code, if that code was acquired under the GPL.

One of the more "permissive" licenses does not place requirements upon the user of code under those licenses. Microsoft, for instance, LOVES the BSD license, since they can cherry-pick code at will, include it in Microsoft's compiled products, and never say a word about it. That is perfectly within the scope of the license.

Quote
Open source is my choice.

 :)

Same here.

I was very pleased with Sam's discussion about Linux in the 20100718 show, near the end.

It was so very nice to hear all those old objections, like "must compile your own software", "doesn't work on some hardware", etc, completely shattered.
Logged
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

Tech blog fun: http://anarchic-order.blogspot.com/

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2010, 07:27:44 pm »

Um, no.  Copyleft licenses like GPL are anti-business and they rely on and legitimize government force.  PL/PD (Permissively Licensed (aka copyfree) or Public Domain) is genuinely free.  Microsoft hates BSD and other PL/PD, because it gives their competitors (ex. Apple, Google, etc) a leg up.  Microsoft can afford to spend billions on R&D - they're the one company in the world that needs PL/PD the least!
Logged

CurtHowland

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 533
  • Mover #902. If not for the deer, maybe #901!
    • Anarchy != Chaos
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2010, 08:40:28 pm »

Um, no.  Copyleft licenses like GPL are anti-business and they rely on and legitimize government force. 

Agreed, they use copyright law as their basis.

Quote
Microsoft hates BSD and other PL/PD, because it gives their competitors (ex. Apple, Google, etc) a leg up.  Microsoft can afford to spend billions on R&D - they're the one company in the world that needs PL/PD the least!

Then why do they use it?

From Wikipedia, BSD entry:

In addition, the permissive nature of the BSD license has allowed many other operating systems, both free and proprietary, to incorporate BSD code. For example, Microsoft Windows has used BSD-derived code in its implementation of TCP/IP and bundles recompiled versions of BSD's command-line networking tools with its current releases.[6] Also Darwin, the system on which Apple's Mac OS X is built, is a derivative of 4.4BSD-Lite2 and FreeBSD. Various commercial UNIX operating systems, such as Solaris, also contain varying amounts of BSD code.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 08:44:24 pm by CurtHowland »
Logged
"We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

Tech blog fun: http://anarchic-order.blogspot.com/

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2010, 09:11:13 pm »

Yes, that's a free market in ideas - you can use Copyfree software for anything.  Microsoft has used it in that once famous example to implement a mission-critical standard, but they rewrote it with their own innovative code soon enough.  It's Microsoft's competitors that benefit from Copyfree the most, and are hurt by Copyleft the most.

It's not just IP law, it's the culture.  Most FLOSS people are far left, and want government to run everything (ex. "Net Neutrality").  Governments are also spending billions (often indirectly) to develop and distribute "free" software.  We should start our own UNIX-based fork, a Libertarian Software Distribution...  FreeLSD?   ;D
Logged

rossby

  • Director of Development
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4801
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2010, 09:30:25 pm »

Yes, that's a free market in ideas - you can use Copyfree software for anything.  Microsoft has used it in that once famous example to implement a mission-critical standard, but they rewrote it with their own innovative code soon enough.  It's Microsoft's competitors that benefit from Copyfree the most, and are hurt by Copyleft the most.

It's not just IP law, it's the culture.  Most FLOSS people are far left, and want government to run everything (ex. "Net Neutrality").  Governments are also spending billions (often indirectly) to develop and distribute "free" software.  We should start our own UNIX-based fork, a Libertarian Software Distribution...  FreeLSD?   ;D

My bits should be free.
Logged

KBCraig

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1466
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #55 on: July 20, 2010, 04:03:04 am »

I use FreeBSD, sort of. It's just all wrapped up in a pretty MacOS X package.  ;)
Logged

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #56 on: July 20, 2010, 04:02:40 pm »

Apple is an even bigger "positive right to IP profits" bully than Microsoft, and also Al Gore is on the board of directors.

Pointy clicky GUI is for commies - except when surfing the Web of course.  Chromium aside, all the software I need is console-based.  There might be exceptions, like graphics / video editing, or CAD apps, but even those should eventually be browser-based (and I mean HTML5+ rather than Flash / Silverlight / Java).
Logged

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2010, 06:51:50 am »

Copyfree software news roundup:

  • FreeBSD 8.1 and PC-BSD 8.1 were released last week, yaaay!  (Though I've been running 9-CURRENT all along, recompiled with debug options disabled for performance reasons.)  Also, for the even more adventurous, OpenBSD is about to release first stapshots for 4.8-BETA.


  • I highly recommend for everyone to listen to the latest episode [MP3] [OGG] of the BSD Talk podcast [RSS], which contains an interview with one of the most awesome free software developers of all time: D. Richard Hipp, the author of SQLite (which is quickly becoming one of the most widely used pieces of software out there, most likely including your Web browser).  The first part of the interview focused on his great new DVCS system called Fossil, but the part of the interview I particularly recommend is toward the end where he talks about licensing issues.  He mentions how SQLite was originally forced into GPL for dependency issues, and how inconvenient that was, and he had to rewrite those components from scratch in order to make his software useful.  He also talks about his attempt to give away his software as "public domain", and how some governments make even that seemingly simple prospect very inconvenient.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 06:57:21 am by Alex Libman »
Logged

FreedomFred

  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 226
    • Freedom Fred's Exposition on Freedom
Fossil
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2010, 04:45:13 pm »

I listened to the podcast on Fossil and I am intrigued. I currently use Subversion, but Fossil would better suit my needs, I think. I am NOT looking forward to the effort to convert from svn to Fossil, though I may go ahead and bite that bullet eventually.

I find his difficulties on giving something away for free to be very amusing. Hipp would rather not have to deal with all these silly licenses, but is forced to.

I mean, it's FREE. What part of FREE do people not understand?  :D
Logged
http://freedomfred.com
Freedom is NOT optional!

Alex Libman

  • Guest
Re: Software Philosophy
« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2010, 12:43:18 am »

I listened to the podcast on Fossil and I am intrigued. I currently use Subversion, but Fossil would better suit my needs, I think. I am NOT looking forward to the effort to convert from svn to Fossil, though I may go ahead and bite that bullet eventually.

I find his difficulties on giving something away for free to be very amusing. Hipp would rather not have to deal with all these silly licenses, but is forced to.

I mean, it's FREE. What part of FREE do people not understand?  :D

Yeah.  Giving software away is not the problem in of itself, the problem is that people and especially businesses are so indoctrinated into government force they're like a dog that can't go to the bathroom without being on a leash.  Some foreign courts still have a problem with uncopyrighted software, but the bigger problem is institutional / psychological - people feel guilty doing something unless an "authority figure" gives them "permission".  It's probably the same psychological dependency that gives GPL software a bigger share of the spotlight.

What really boggles my mind is that the SQLite Web-site, after repeatedly explaining that it's "public domain", links to a place where people can "purchase an explicit license" for $1000! 
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 12:50:27 am by Alex Libman »
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Up