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Author Topic: NH vs WY  (Read 153780 times)

Penfist

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Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2002, 09:47:17 am »

Quote
Quote


Income Tax Summary:
1. WY, AK, and SD have no income tax
2. NH and ND have low income tax rates.
3. DE, MT, and ID have average income tax rates.
4. VT and ME have very high income tax rates


Um, New Hampshire does NOT have an income tax. It's not low it's NONEXISTENT.

It helps to get the facts correct when you're trying to make a case :)
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Penfist

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Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2002, 09:50:43 am »

Proposal or not NH is facing a big deficit and are going to raise taxes to solve the problem.

You sound pretty convinced about New Hampshire being wrong and Wyoming being right.

What's the deficit in Wyoming?

If we're going to talk about deficits, let's talk about the removal of the gold standard and Social Security IOUs too, since those are both going to haunt this country for the foreseeable future. How are we going to approach those two issues in the Free State?

Isn't debt pretty meaningless now that our currency is no longer backed by any meaningful collateral?

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FSP=Free State Project not FCP=Free Country Project
As for the reason I bring up the deficit you can see in the link I provided. They are doing studies on how to raise taxes on businesses to get the 100,000,000 they need to cover on an annual basis.

You have a valid point regarding raising taxes on businesses.

In regards to the free state vs. free country comment, I thought that the idea behind creating a free state was to set an example for other states to follow which might eventually lead to a free country.
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ZionCurtain

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Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2002, 11:19:43 am »

Palindrome you are correct we do wish for a free country but we have to do the state thing first and successfully might I add.
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Heyduke

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Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2002, 07:04:54 pm »

Hey--Michelle--more power to you and your charge, but I am a little concerned that you are actually employed by the NH Dept. of Tourism the way you continually schill NH to all and any...I take no offense at your defensiveness, and whether I am a member or not, I know how to pick my battles and have a keener sense of perspective than most of the yahoos that come to NH from outside and then preach Live Free or Die...my ancestors died protecting what I know of NH...I'm bornand raised...my parents...their parents...their parents...back to the 1700's when the histories and names begin to dilute as much as the bloodlines of the local abenaqui and settlers...I'm not saying nobody's welcome, but I am saying that you're not the only one with a view on the state of the State, and that I very much reserve the right speak freely as counterpoint to your constant salesmanship of my state for your political motives.  

That's all.  In fairness, I never intend to insult and endeavour to not do so, but my sense of humor is wry and at times sharper than many enjoy.  I make neither apologies nor excuses.  FSP is welcome in NH at the peril of their very objectives.  Hell...I'll even offer the first employment to any prospective FSP migrants...

coyote pelts--$5/apiece--cash dollars.  

yrn trly,

henry lightcap  
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Robert H.

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Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2002, 02:28:44 am »

That's all.  In fairness, I never intend to insult and endeavour to not do so, but my sense of humor is wry and at times sharper than many enjoy.  I make neither apologies nor excuses.  FSP is welcome in NH at the peril of their very objectives.  Hell...I'll even offer the first employment to any prospective FSP migrants...

"At the peril of their very objectives" is exactly my problem with NH in the long run.  Sure, the state just voted in Republicans in a big way and even went Bush in the last presidential election, but I think that adulation over this swing, as though it were heralding a new era for NH, is premature.  Bush won NH in 2000 by 1% of the vote, and would likely have lost the state to Gore by the 6 or 7% that went to Nader instead.  There is also the income tax issue to consider, and evidence shows that this brought voters out in a big, big way and swung them toward Republicans.  

NH may be in the process of altering its political persuasion, but then again, this could be a phase.  There will be no way to know for certain until at least two more general elections have passed.  Then we'll have something of a pattern to analyze.  In the meantime, I'd rather stick with states that have established political traditions that are favorable to us, and don't seem to be teetering on the edge quite so much.  Wyoming has just elected a Democrat governor, but the libertarian vote may have had something to do with this, and it is not in keeping with the state's overall political persuasion.  Wyoming has not gone to the Democrats in a national election since 1964.  With this state, we have a historical pattern that is more favorable to us.  There is no realistic possibility that WY will just suddenly swing back the other way next election; a possibility that realistically exists in NH.

Heyduke,

One of my biggest concerns with regard to NH is urban sprawl from liberal Boston.  Cities are expanding outward all over the country, and this pattern does not seem to be abating.  If anything, it's becoming more pronounced.  I'm concerned that NH's projected general population growth over the next 10 years will make it quickly unviable for the FSP (the same with Idaho and MT).  Aside from this aspect though, my main concern is that liberals migrating from MA could change NH's political character more to the left over the next few years.  On the other hand, libertarians and conservatives may be fleeing from MA to NH and this could solidify the state more to the right.  At this point, I think it's very difficult to say.  What do you think based on where you are?  1)  About sprawl into NH in general, and 2)  About how sprawl with affect NH (which way will it push the state politically?)

Heyduke

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Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2002, 10:18:01 am »

Well, without being scientific as I haven't the source of this stat, I have been told that 40% of NH's current population is from MA., and I think that is believable.  

But here's a rub--my brother and his family represent 4 of those, and he's an expat. NH'er that also happens to be more right wing than I--if he is to be believed, he voted straight ticket R.  So, yes--Southern NH has the bulk of the 'new' population, but let's consider why?  Is it because the liberals from MA are on a mission to convert NH?  Or is it because NH's conservative climate appeals to those who are sick of MA?  In a recent political commercial, former governor and current senator judd gregg made a derisive reference to ted kennedy--so there must be some professionals that seem to think that NH is attracting the disenfranchised conservatives from MA in a significant number.  

Regardless--the southern tier has the largest population centers...it has the largest job markets and easier access to MA...but when someone looks at nashua and thinks--Democratic stronghold, I think maybe they are making a judgement error--yes it is leaning that way, but--these aren't Daschle's Dems, or even Kennedy's Dems...these are for the most part handmedown JFK Dems (at least that's how it was--old boy's club/cronyism still runs rampant around here--that's a stat someone should dig up--average residency of all elected officials).  

Now I'm rambling...and pre-caffeine...but my end conclusion is that quoting journalists and watching msnbc is not an effective way to measure the scene in NH--and I don't know that my perceptions are any better, but I do know what I know and am active enough in many different ways that I can say--NH is a screwy beast politically...I mean...katrina swett??  there was no way in hell she'd ever get elected, but...she shouldn't have even been on the radar...but somebody voted for her, and I don't attribute that to MA influx...

oh yeah...I think NH is set to go on a conservative kick for a bit--not as some pundits may think, in response to national trends, but in response to a shaheen era backlash...it happens...we were ready to move on from Steve Merrill and the Clinton years helped shaheen into office.  Now I think the state wants to slow down and sort some things out...and there doesn't seem to be any prominent Dem. on the horizon in state.  

hey--you guys should send forward teams to prospective states--I'd perhaps consider voting Lib. a little sooner if the two main candidates weren't husband/wife (babiarz)--they may be nice folks, but...there's a whole credibility issue...

PS--the housing market in So. NH should have some say as to how many liberal-types are even able to afford to move in these days...
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George Reich

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Re:States with two very different systems of government.
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2003, 07:30:03 am »

In New England, it seems, and especially in New Hampshire the governor seems to be not much more than an administrator and figurehead. Thus "meeting with the governor" may be not much more than a PR event for both parties.

The New Hampshire governor is relatively weak compared to that in other states because he or she shares power with a five member elected executive council. The governor and council each hold approximately half of the executive power. Taken together, they are no less powerful than the executive branch in other states. This is a huge advantage for New Hampshire. I have watched this system function many times to the taxpayers' advantage and believe other states would be very lucky to have a similar system.

The Welcome to the Granite State Committee set up a meeting with the governor so that FSP members can hear (from the horse's mouth) whether or not they will be welcomed in New Hampshire. Also, touring the NH statehouse will be an interesting history lesson for any history buffs in the group.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2003, 04:04:42 pm by libertarian40 »
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JasonPSorens

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Re:States with two very different systems of government.
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2003, 01:34:30 pm »

I'm not sure if the issue has much relevance for state choice, but I would say that one reform we should work for in our chosen state is reducing the power of the executive branch, including the governor.  A weak governor means a powerful legislature, and the legislature is the branch closer & more accountable to the people.  Also, proportional representation is more workable when the executive branch is mainly administrative and has no law-making powers.  I'm more concerned about this on the national level, however, as the national executive bureaucracy is more obviously out of control than the state bureaucracies.
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George Reich

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Re:States with two very different systems of government.
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2003, 02:27:05 pm »

In further reading of the NH Constitution and Statutes, I find very little "power" authorized for the Executive Council other than sharing with the Governor nominations and appointments. Generally the Council is only for advising the Governor. Could you show us where the Governor is so weak.

This web page is a start in understanding NH's executive council:

http://www.state.nh.us/council/overview.html
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George Reich

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Re:States with two very different systems of government.
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2003, 02:40:08 pm »

Those who are interested in the history of NH government (and specifically of the governor's council) might enjoy this page:

http://www.state.nh.us/council/council.html
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George Reich

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Re:States with two very different systems of government.
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2003, 04:02:41 pm »

Jeanne Shaheen was a horrible governor, but she could have done much worse damage to this state during her six years in office. The council was a constant check on her power and her frustration with them was publicly apparent at times.

I am no authority on New Hampshire law or its constitution, but my understanding is that the split in power is indeed close to 50-50 between the governor and council. The duties of both are outlined in articles 41 - 66 of the NH constitution:

http://www.state.nh.us/constitution/constitution.html
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stpeter

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Re:States with two very different systems of government.
« Reply #41 on: April 12, 2003, 09:04:25 pm »

http://www.state.nh.us/council/overview.html
http://www.state.nh.us/council/council.html
If only all the states had such an arrangement! This system seems tailor-made to put a break on the expansion of government power and expenditures. Well done, New Hampshire! :)
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Hank

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Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2003, 05:57:46 pm »

One of my biggest concerns with regard to NH is urban sprawl from liberal Boston.  Cities are expanding outward all over the country, and this pattern does not seem to be abating.  If anything, it's becoming more pronounced.  I'm concerned that NH's projected general population growth over the next 10 years will make it quickly unviable for the FSP (the same with Idaho and MT).  Aside from this aspect though, my main concern is that liberals migrating from MA could change NH's political character more to the left over the next few years.  On the other hand, libertarians and conservatives may be fleeing from MA to NH and this could solidify the state more to the right.  At this point, I think it's very difficult to say.  What do you think based on where you are?  1)  About sprawl into NH in general, and 2)  About how sprawl with affect NH (which way will it push the state politically?)

That leading edge of urban refugees bring their urban big government ideas with them. We keep moving farther away from the cities but the city liberals and code enforcers keep moving farther out too. We move to some in-the-sticks middle-of-nowhere one-stoplight-town and what do we find.  CITY CODE ENFORCERS who just moved in from some metropolis to "get away from it all". >:(
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jgmaynard

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Re:Wyoming Vs New Hampshire
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2003, 01:49:52 am »

The NHBankers report was a projection from one group about one way of financing carrying through with the Claremont decisions.

Proposals from ANY group outside of Government is not the law NOR what is gonna happen

There are different ways to pay for anything.

Governor Benson and the house are ALREADY finding news ways of paying for schools by getting state Government out of the picture,  Claremont or not.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2003, 01:50:09 am by jgmaynard »
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Hank

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Re:States with two very different systems of government.
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2003, 11:37:27 am »

Here in the West our town councils and county commissioners are fully-fledged lawmakers. Wyoming has a Libertarian elected to town council.
.
I can't believe that they are 'fully-fledged' law makers,
since the 10th Amendment reserves default law-making
power to the States or the People. Thus, they can
at most be tenants-in-chief, such that Wyoming has
delegated lawmaking power to the towns & counties.
Or, they can propose laws and have the People vote on
them. Otherwise, they themselves could pass bonds.
.
Do you have any links that explain the system?
Go here
Free Wyoming
Then go here
Wyoming Constitution
and here
Wyoming Statutes

Do YOU have any links that prove that New Hampshire towns have even half as much power as small Western cities and counties?

(at the risk of calling down a tornado)
Zack would say:
A Western Sheriff beats an Eastern Sheriff.
as we would say:
A pair of Western Sheriff's beats a New England Governor. :P
and
Four Western Counties beats your Full House ;) ;D
« Last Edit: May 12, 2003, 11:51:09 am by Black Hills Hank »
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