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Author Topic: I think I like the FSP  (Read 10256 times)

kyfornow

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2009, 07:57:22 pm »

I'm reading about the board. And I see airline pilot. Lawyer ivy league professor. Etc. I'm not even sure I speak the same language.

... looks like we're both speaking English.


Hahaha I like that.

Maybe it's better said this way

People who become supervisors
Teachers who become administrators
Those who take or work their way to more prestigious positions most often seem to forget they were ever anything else. The transformation is usually miraculous and instantaneous. 

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RichW

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2009, 08:09:24 pm »

The FSP is nothing more than what we the members make it.  If you want to change it, move, get involved, and volunteer to help out.  Perhaps then you can occupy a position of "power" in the organization.

Successful people are often found at the top of most organizations because they are achievers.  As you gain experience, you will find that there are many in this world who talk, but few who do.  It should not be surprising that those leading the FSP have achieved success in their careers.

I often see members who are frustrated with the direction of the FSP.  You must understand that there are only a limited number of dollars and volunteer man-hours that must be spread out amongst literally thousands of ideas.  If you have an idea about which you are excited, you may have to pursue it on your own or with a few others who share your enthusiasm.  That is just the way it is right now.  Eh, it seems to work out...we have nearly gotten to the half-way point of 10,000 members.  Some see the growth as below expectations.  I see it as utterly amazing...10,000 people willing to drop everything and move in order to live in freedom.  You yourself see how difficult that is, having land to sell and all.  Imagine how hard it is for those of us with a far greater number of entanglements.  IMHO, all those who have sacrificed a great deal of their personal time to make the FSP what it is deserve our thanks.
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rossby

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2009, 08:53:15 pm »

Those who take or work their way to more prestigious positions most often seem to forget they were ever anything else. The transformation is usually miraculous and instantaneous. 

You're speaking in generalities and stereotypes and applying them to people in the FSP.

... have I offended you in some way or otherwise given you some reason to do so?
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 08:55:37 pm by B.D. Ross »
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"Hagrid"

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2009, 08:55:43 pm »

I'm reading about the board. And I see airline pilot. Lawyer ivy league professor. Etc. I'm not even sure I speak the same language.

I suggest you learn to listen first.  If you met Varrin, you'd like him.  Jason too.  Cathleen is more down to earth than you, I suspect... but you just jumped to conclusions first, and spoke without finding out the facts.

There are plenty of reasons to 'dislike' the FSP, if you look for them... plenty of reasons to avoid making a commitment and working for liberty in your lifetime.
But funny enough, most people are looking for such a reason, so they don't have to make the move... easier to blame 'them' then 'me'

Sovereign Curtis

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2009, 08:58:37 pm »

Those who take or work their way to more prestigious positions most often seem to forget they were ever anything else. The transformation is usually miraculous and instantaneous. 

prestigious

FSP board

prestigious

lol
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I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

Kate

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2009, 09:24:15 pm »

You also don't see all the other people who volunteer tons of time each year.  
The computer programmers that keep the site working and improve it.
The people that return emails, phone calls and thank new signers when they join. ( We need more of these people.)
The people who write and send out press releases.
The people who staff events or go and hand out fliers all over the country.
The people that run meet up groups around the country.
Fund raisers,  It takes quite a bit of money to run the FSP.  Keep in mind we are not paid but need money to get our message out there.
People who work on advertising for the FSP.
taking orders for and shipping FSP merchandise.
I know I'm forgetting other things volunteers do for the FSP.

Liberty Forum and Porc Fest.  Each event takes dozens of volunteers each year to make these events happen.  
Each one takes a almost a year to put together.
The logistics of putting on a multi day event for 500 people is mind boggling.  

You need people to...
Make arrangement with the location and be the point person between the FSP and the location
Find speakers and make travel arrangements (Not easy try it sometime)
Making sure speakers have everything they need for their presentations
Plan activities find people to run them and make sure necessary equipment and supplies are available
Registration.  (You try and get 500 pro liberty people to do something the same way. ) from web site to badges to welcome packets
Handle getting and helping vendors at events
Organizing the team of volunteers helping at the event to make sure everything gets done and attendees are taken care of
Programs and the printing of everything needed for the events
T shirts and other logos and artwork used to promote the event
Finding sponsors (I wish we had more)
Getting the press to cover the event.
Find people to document the event film, photos, blogs etc....
Making arrangements for food at the events.
Firearm instructors and making arrangements to find somewhere to shoot
I'm sure I'm forgetting more unseen help.  
We get all sorts of people from every walk of life and at differnt points on the path to liberty to help put on these events each year.
We can't do it without everyone pitching in. From your smaller government republican to your no government anarchist and voluntarists.  

Often the people  doing all this work rarely get thanked and usually get complained at by people
 who have no idea what it is like to do the work that these people do for zero pay.  
Kate







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Pat K

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2009, 01:10:49 am »

Varin you uppity bastard, stop pissing folk off will ya.
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"It's not all gonna be candy and blow-jobs"-Dale



Jason Osborne ‎"Fighting for reduction of government" is kind of like smashing your dick in a car door to reduce the pain of smashing your dick in the car door, and then getting pissed at the folks who don't want to smash their dicks in car doors as if it is their fault that your dick hurts.

"I don't recommend looking towards a government building if you don't want to see indecent behavior."  --Russell Kanning

freedomroad

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2009, 01:29:33 am »

So far my exposure to FSP particulars tells me that they are all nuveau riche, bureaucratic and have no grasp on what it is to make real sacrifice. 

From what I've seen, the opposite is true.  I've meet 1000s of rich folks but only a few of them were part of the FSP.  Yet, I've met over 1000 folks that were/are part of the FSP.  As for no grasp on what it is to make real sacrifice, I've found the exact opposite.  Quite a few FSP folks have left their families, friends, and decent jobs behind.  Quite a few even move to NH without a job, and some don't even have a place to live when they first get to NH.

If leaving my family, friends, home, and decent job behind when moving to NH without a job, especially coming from a place which averages 5 inches of snow a year, isn't a real sacrifice, I'm not sure what is.  If spending 20-50 hours a week doing freedom activism without any pay isn't real sacrifice, I don't know what is.  Some people have given more than me.  Some people have left their spouse.  Some people are 1000s of miles from their children.  One guy lived in his truck for an entire winter.
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kyfornow

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2009, 02:35:01 am »


I suggest you learn to listen first.

Perhaps it is you who is incapable of listening as the remainder of my response will indicate.

 
Quote
Cathleen is more down to earth than you, I suspect...

1) Are you implying here that you aren't down to earth
2) I wasn't trying to have a contest to prove I was more down to earth than someone else.  Would you like me to?
3) I never even said that the FSP board was comprised of bad people, but largely appeared to be a list of people I would likely not be able to mesh with.  But then this lies within the same line of logic as to why I can't mesh with a room full of conservative christians.  We're just not in the same sphere.



 
Quote
but you just jumped to conclusions first, and spoke without finding out the facts.

Again here, no conclusion jumping.  Perhaps what I will find by meeting some of these people firsthand will dispel these notions, and if they do I will gladly admit that I am highly incorrect.  But they are not conclusions that have been jumped to.  They are based on youtube videos, comments made on blogs, radio and podcasts, and in forums, not least of which is this one.


 
Quote
There are plenty of reasons to 'dislike' the FSP, if you look for them... plenty of reasons to avoid making a commitment and working for liberty in your lifetime.
But funny enough, most people are looking for such a reason, so they don't have to make the move... easier to blame 'them' then 'me'

If you were listening, while simultaneously accusing me of not listening, you will recall that I directed my concern at the FSP entity itself, and not the liberty movement.  I never designated my comments as to imply these concerns would sway me from an intention to move to NH. 

And just because I may develop a dislike for the FSP organization, it is not my enemy.  I would not hesitate to engage in volunteerism geared toward motivating people to move to NH or educating them on the potential of moving there. 
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kyfornow

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2009, 02:41:56 am »

Those who take or work their way to more prestigious positions most often seem to forget they were ever anything else. The transformation is usually miraculous and instantaneous. 

You're speaking in generalities and stereotypes and applying them to people in the FSP.

... have I offended you in some way or otherwise given you some reason to do so?

I am not speaking in generalities, but in fact was referring to specific people or things I have observed.

You have certainly not offended me, nor was it my intention to do so.  I'm merely trying to iron some things out for myself.  I'm making this trip 2 weeks from tomorrow, and I want to know exactly what to expect to find.

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rossby

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2009, 03:09:20 am »

I am not speaking in generalities, but in fact was referring to specific people or things I have observed.

You called me out in your list. What have you observed to believe I am "nouveau rich", bureaucratic, have no grasp of what it is to make real sacrifice, or don't speak the same language as you?

I'm merely trying to iron some things out for myself.  I'm making this trip 2 weeks from tomorrow, and I want to know exactly what to expect to find.

Cold weather--WEAR A HAT!

Beyond that, FSP-specific? Exactly? There's really no telling. Talk to as many porcs as you can.

Re: Kate's response. Had a thought. I've met a good number of porcs. Even when I disagree with them, I have a really hard time not getting along with most of them, generally speaking.

Re: Seth's response. His first statement about people looking for excuses rings pretty true. Some people do focus on reasons why they shouldn't be involved. That's sorta what your post sounded like because of the conjecture. That's probably where how he interpreted it and that's probably where he's coming from. (ahem. just a guess. don't let me put words in his mouth now...)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 04:32:43 am by B.D. Ross »
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Dreepa

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2009, 08:18:46 am »

Those who take or work their way to more prestigious positions most often seem to forget they were ever anything else. The transformation is usually miraculous and instantaneous. 

You're speaking in generalities and stereotypes and applying them to people in the FSP.

... have I offended you in some way or otherwise given you some reason to do so?

I am not speaking in generalities, but in fact was referring to specific people or things I have observed.

You have certainly not offended me, nor was it my intention to do so.  I'm merely trying to iron some things out for myself.  I'm making this trip 2 weeks from tomorrow, and I want to know exactly what to expect to find.



Then you will love that the FSP board doesn't do much in NH (besides sponsor Porcfest and the Liberty Forum)

Once you are in NH... the FSP is 'what got you here'.

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Sovereign Curtis

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2009, 10:05:28 am »

yallpostinginatrollthread.jpg
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."

kyfornow

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2009, 08:37:09 pm »

I am not speaking in generalities, but in fact was referring to specific people or things I have observed.

You called me out in your list. What have you observed to believe I am "nouveau rich", bureaucratic, have no grasp of what it is to make real sacrifice, or don't speak the same language as you?

I'm merely trying to iron some things out for myself.  I'm making this trip 2 weeks from tomorrow, and I want to know exactly what to expect to find.

Cold weather--WEAR A HAT!

Beyond that, FSP-specific? Exactly? There's really no telling. Talk to as many porcs as you can.

Re: Kate's response. Had a thought. I've met a good number of porcs. Even when I disagree with them, I have a really hard time not getting along with most of them, generally speaking.

Re: Seth's response. His first statement about people looking for excuses rings pretty true. Some people do focus on reasons why they shouldn't be involved. That's sorta what your post sounded like because of the conjecture. That's probably where how he interpreted it and that's probably where he's coming from. (ahem. just a guess. don't let me put words in his mouth now...)

The fact is, I've never encountered a board of directors, or a board of anything, board of education, board of regents, etc who were not idealogues.  They use lots of words, come up with catchphrases, but have no real connection to their relevant demographic.  They're usually even very very nice people, but seem to be out of touch.

An example-  the place where I use to work with kids made me go to this stupid weeklong conference, calling it professional development.  It wasn't mandated by the state or anthing,  company just picked 4 of us and made us go.  I wanted to stay and help kids.  So we go to the conference and get to meet all the company bigwigs over this 2000 employee organization.  They were all very approachable people, and I walked up to several of them and had fairly good conversations.  But because they were corporate entities, they were clueless. 
The corporate office was state of the art, so they could accomodate large meetings, with big tvs and nice furniture.  And I kept telling people, instead of spending all this money on a state of the art office, or to send 400 employees to a conference, they could spend it on the kids AND we would be helping the kids more by being with them instead of at a silly conference for a week.  We're being treated to these buffet meals for a week, and getting all these nice gifts and extras for attending the conference, while my kids were still eating their crappy sysco food and some had never gotten a gift their entire life. 

The board and management meant well, or as our resident therapist always said, "The right notion but the wrong motion"

As far as calling you out, I reitterate that I never said I had any negative feeling toward you or anyone else. 

But I do have real concerns and real questions regarding the FSP (not complaints) because complaints are when you don't have solutions or suggestions to go along with your concerns.   I've talke to a lot of very nice and helpful people who already live in NH, warning me about things to prepare for and suggesting places to live, things to see when drive into the area.   Unless some drastic catastrophic thing in NH makes me never want to return ever again, I'm already sold on making the move.  But there's a word full of 6 billion people who aren't already aware of the idea. 
RE: cold weather, I'm bringing 2 hats thank you very much
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Floridian

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Re: I don't think I like the FSP
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2009, 11:41:10 pm »

I like liberty activity, and I like what I see going on in NH, at least from what I see online.  But I don't think I like the FSP organization. 

So far my exposure to FSP particulars tells me that they are all nuveau riche, bureaucratic and have no grasp on what it is to make real sacrifice. 

I'm seeing that, aside from the factor of force, that the FSP is quite similar to government or to the organizational heirarchy of many silly corporations, rife with flaws and oversights.

I've received helpful feedback from many free staters and volunteers, but I'm not sure I am a fan of the FSP organization itself.



These assertions are surprising.  Try not to be intimidated by the perfect grammar and spelling exhibited by the FSP leaders on this forum.   ;D
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