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Author Topic: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire  (Read 14917 times)

creaganlios

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2009, 08:07:34 am »

Probably not. Beck's possibly mentioning the FSP would bring new attention to it and the truth about us would get out.

The "truth?"   All one need do is take a look at the reputation the "Libertarian Party" has among average NH voters to see how the FSPs brand image would be damaged via association with Beck.
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Bazil

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2009, 08:36:47 am »

The "truth?"   All one need do is take a look at the reputation the "Libertarian Party" has among average NH voters to see how the FSPs brand image would be damaged via association with Beck.

We'll it would certainly damage the FSP in the eyes of the big government people he mocks everyday.  He is libertarian in most ways, except for most notablely his war stance, which he has actually backed away from recently (see the Kati Curic interview).  I think as he drifts away from the left and right he is also pulling a lot of his following with him.  I know a few people who were ultra-conservative who watch Glenn Beck and have been become a lot more Libertarian as he has.  That helps the FSP.
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rossby

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2009, 08:45:29 am »

association ≠ publicity.

Let Beck yack. He's going to anyway. S'what he gets paid for.

People that don't care don't listen to him. People that don't like him are rarely turned off at the "things" he talks about--exactly because they don't listen to him. On the other hand, people that might be open to the FSP if they heard about it, might be interested.
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creaganlios

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2009, 09:17:17 am »

Bazil and BD, I couldnt disagree more, and I am coming from the angle of Marketing.  More people got their notions about Sarah Palin from what Tina Fey said than from what Palin actually said (not that I am a Palin fan).

Libertarians in general and FSPers in particular have been all too happy spending our time in pointless, fruitless egghead discussions about alloidal title and ending public education and legal heroin...and have suffered from marginalization and poor branding in the court of public opinion as a result.  If Beck begins promoting FSP and moves to NH, the mainstream media that reaches mopst people will identify the two.  Our ability to reach even sympathetic granite staters will be harmed - long term - as we are further marginalized and dismissed.

Worse, the nutcases, birthers, truthers, confederates and racists who actually buy into Beck's hystrionics will be emboldened to move here...further marginalizing a movement that *should*, naturally, appeal to most in New Hampshire.

New Hampshire people are naturally libertarian, but they are also pragmatic and reject extremism and emotionalism. We have one of the most highly college-educated populations in the nation. The FSP and libertarianism in general will advance here when we learn that our brand image *must* be professional, and not a series of youtube videos showing dirtbags smoking pot and tea-bag protesters carrying signs with grammatical and spelling errors.

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Bazil

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2009, 12:09:55 pm »

birthers, truthers, confederates and racists

I don't know anyone who fits into one of those categories that watches Glenn Beck,  Sean Hannity definitely, but Glenn Beck no.  Weather you like or dislike Glenn Beck depends highly what side of the libertarian movement you're on, the right or the left.
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freedomroad

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2009, 12:56:12 pm »

Our ability to reach even sympathetic granite staters will be harmed - long term - as we are further marginalized and dismissed.

The FSP isn't about reaching folks in NH.  It is about moving liberty lovers (be they conservative, liberal, libertarian, anarchist, whatever) to NH with the hopes that they will get active.  I would still help state reps in NH get elected if Glen Beck moved to NH.  I would still help swing state rep and state senate votes in NH if Glen Beck was elected.  There would still be conspiracy theorists and birthers serving as state reps in NH.  The difference is that there would be more good state reps.

See, the idea isn't so much for locals to be dragged into the FSP yet, at least for me personally, but it is for me to work with the locals.  It would be very hard for me to swing a vote in the state senate with the help of just free staters.  But when 2000 locals and I work together on something, things happen.

Remember, the FSP isn't about doing activism in any way except to move folks to NH.  The reputation of the FSP organization in NH isn't of much importance.  It's the reputation of the individuals that move because of the FSP that is important.  That is mostly up to the individuals.  When state reps invite me to parties, they don't do it because I'm in the FSP, they do it because they like me based on what I've done personally.

More well liked, hard working individuals is a good thing.
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creaganlios

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2009, 02:03:13 pm »

Keith, the entire idea of moving 20,000 people to one state was based on replicating the voting strategy and patterns of the Parti Quebecois, and the idea that a small number of committed activists could indeed make a huge difference.

However, for that equaltion to work, the FSP must hold on to the greater number of residents who would naturally sympathize with it.  A mere 20,000 votes spread out is not that much in a state of over 1,000,000 people.  I know *many* people - friends of mine - who are local Garnite Staters, who were sympathetic and supportive when I first described the FSP to them.  Almost to a one, they have now dismissed the FSP as a lunatic fringe because of the antics of a few who receive the media attention.

As it is, the GOP is about to drive off a cliff once the media starts chewing on Karen Testerman's medieval quotes....and if people are leaving the GOP because of its reputation as being captured by a shrill wing, the notion that the FSP could be helped by the likes of Glenn Beck is beyond my comprehension.

FWIW, I came to libertarianism from the right, not the left...not sure where that put me now.
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rossby

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2009, 03:58:18 pm »

Bazil and BD, I couldnt disagree more, and I am coming from the angle of Marketing.  More people got their notions about Sarah Palin from what Tina Fey said than from what Palin actually said (not that I am a Palin fan).

Libertarians in general and FSPers in particular have been all too happy spending our time in pointless, fruitless egghead discussions about alloidal title and ending public education and legal heroin...and have suffered from marginalization and poor branding in the court of public opinion as a result.  If Beck begins promoting FSP and moves to NH, the mainstream media that reaches mopst people will identify the two.  Our ability to reach even sympathetic granite staters will be harmed - long term - as we are further marginalized and dismissed.

Worse, the nutcases, birthers, truthers, confederates and racists who actually buy into Beck's hystrionics will be emboldened to move here...further marginalizing a movement that *should*, naturally, appeal to most in New Hampshire.

New Hampshire people are naturally libertarian, but they are also pragmatic and reject extremism and emotionalism. We have one of the most highly college-educated populations in the nation. The FSP and libertarianism in general will advance here when we learn that our brand image *must* be professional, and not a series of youtube videos showing dirtbags smoking pot and tea-bag protesters carrying signs with grammatical and spelling errors.

Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes, the dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Nothing you mention will directly arise because and if Beck ever mentions the FSP on his show. Nor does it address our inability to stop him from flapping his gums. In all likelihood, it just may happen someday. Might even be good. But, I, for one, am not going to lose a minute of sleep over Glenn Beck's curiously successful television show.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 03:59:52 pm by B.D. Ross »
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freedomroad

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2009, 04:30:03 pm »

However, for that equaltion to work, the FSP must hold on to the greater number of residents who would naturally sympathize with it.  A mere 20,000 votes spread out is not that much in a state of over 1,000,000 people.  I know *many* people - friends of mine - who are local Garnite Staters, who were sympathetic and supportive when I first described the FSP to them.  Almost to a one, they have now dismissed the FSP as a lunatic fringe because of the antics of a few who receive the media attention.

I think you are confused by what the FSP is.  The FSP is just a way to get freedom folks to move to NH.  The FSP doesn't do shit in NH.  Individuals do stuff in NH.  Individuals built reputations in NH.  The FSP isn't related to that.

The FSP must not hold any number of residents to anything.  No one needs to like the FSP for it to work.  Heck, 1/2 of the folks in NH could hate it and it wouldn't make much difference.  I don't go around talking to people in NH about the FSP, the FSP doesn't matter in NH, only outside of NH and then only in getting people to NH. 

Some of the state reps I talk to don't even know I moved to NH as part of the FSP, and they don't care either.  It isn't related to anything so there is no point in bring it up.  They are very thankful that I talked to them, many times though.  They are very thankful that I alerted them to something, many times though.  They are very thankful that I helped them get elected.  Similar for state senators. 

Feel free to talk to people in NH about the FSP, I don't see a point in doing that unless someone brings it up to me.  I have no interest in spreading the word of the FSP in NH.  I have interest is telling voters about the more pro-freedom candidate in an upcoming election, a controversial bill that is about to be voted on, educating state reps, and getting good state reps elected.  I focus most of my attention in NH on these things.

Millions of people like Glenn Beck.  If he says good things about NH, it might encourage some of those folks to move to NH.
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creaganlios

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2009, 05:27:23 pm »

Weell, Keith, I do know what the FSP is all about...I sined up quite early and moved here before the state was even chosen.  I was simply being pithy in my use of words, but i can see how that din't translate well.

As for people who love Glenn Beck moving here.....er, sorry, but they scare me and don't particualrly give off an aroma of liberty - unless its consistent with Social Conservatism. 
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Dreepa

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2009, 08:37:20 am »


As for people who love Glenn Beck moving here.....er, sorry, but they scare me and don't particualrly give off an aroma of liberty - unless its consistent with Social Conservatism. 
all of them?

millions watch and listen.

I just want 10,200 of them to move.
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creaganlios

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2009, 09:26:47 am »

Why? 

Do you want a Red State?

Or a Free State?
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PraeterIdiot

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2009, 09:46:27 am »

However, for that equaltion to work, the FSP must hold on to the greater number of residents who would naturally sympathize with it.  A mere 20,000 votes spread out is not that much in a state of over 1,000,000 people.  I know *many* people - friends of mine - who are local Garnite Staters, who were sympathetic and supportive when I first described the FSP to them.  Almost to a one, they have now dismissed the FSP as a lunatic fringe because of the antics of a few who receive the media attention.

I think you are confused by what the FSP is.  The FSP is just a way to get freedom folks to move to NH.  The FSP doesn't do shit in NH.  Individuals do stuff in NH.  Individuals built reputations in NH.  The FSP isn't related to that.

The FSP must not hold any number of residents to anything.  No one needs to like the FSP for it to work.  Heck, 1/2 of the folks in NH could hate it and it wouldn't make much difference.  I don't go around talking to people in NH about the FSP, the FSP doesn't matter in NH, only outside of NH and then only in getting people to NH. 

Some of the state reps I talk to don't even know I moved to NH as part of the FSP, and they don't care either.  It isn't related to anything so there is no point in bring it up.  They are very thankful that I talked to them, many times though.  They are very thankful that I alerted them to something, many times though.  They are very thankful that I helped them get elected.  Similar for state senators. 

Feel free to talk to people in NH about the FSP, I don't see a point in doing that unless someone brings it up to me.  I have no interest in spreading the word of the FSP in NH.  I have interest is telling voters about the more pro-freedom candidate in an upcoming election, a controversial bill that is about to be voted on, educating state reps, and getting good state reps elected.  I focus most of my attention in NH on these things.

Millions of people like Glenn Beck.  If he says good things about NH, it might encourage some of those folks to move to NH.

There's something that Thom is getting at, though.  And I see this all the time; anyone cites criticism that people have en masse with freestaters, and the only defense that I see is "but the freestate PROJECT isn't that it's just get people to move."  True but, what is drawing in the freestaters that people are dismissing as a lunatic fringe?  The Project itself.

You're right the FSP doesn't do shit in NH and it doesn't seek a reputation on its own.  But as you said, individuals do do shit in NH, and they do build reputations and it's I think facetious to try to ignore the reality that people are assigning a reputation to the Project based on the reputations and acts of individuals who claim to be part of the Project.

Looking through the perspective of someone who doesn't like the freestaters, if it weren't for the Project, they wouldn't be here.  What kind of effect do you predict that has on people's opinion of the Project?  "It's the thing that gets the crazy lunatics to move here."  Oh, but it's not about the crazies?  You say you're involved with politicians yet fail to grasp the concept that perception is reality?  I find this odd.

I understand why it's not pertinent to talk in NH about the Project, since they're already here.  And what you say you are focusing your attention on sounds like a worthy recipient of your attention.

And I think as long as Glenn Beck just yammers away at NH being an awesome place to live and full of rad people, then no problem.  But as soon as he says he himself is calling himself a freestater, then it's just one more thing that Freestaters may need to answer for, in addition to "yes I"m a freestater but no I'm not gonna do [whatever the latest "crazy" thing was]."  Now we'll have "yeah I am but not...I don't likey the Glenn Beck.  He's a nutto."  Unless one is actually down for him.
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freedomroad

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2009, 11:14:42 am »

There's something that Thom is getting at, though.  And I see this all the time; anyone cites criticism that people have en masse with freestaters, and the only defense that I see is "but the freestate PROJECT isn't that it's just get people to move."

No person in NH has ever said anything bad about the FSP to me except other FSP folks like Ian and Mark (and even then, they specified exactly what they were talking about.)  Even though lots of people know I moved to NH as part of the FSP, they don't ever say anything bad about it and I have no reason to think they have a negative imagine of the FSP.  In fact, I think the opposite is more likely to be true, based on every single experience I've had.  Maybe some people act differently or have had bad experiences with individuals that moved to NH as part of the FSP, I don't know.

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Oh, but it's not about the crazies?  You say you're involved with politicians yet fail to grasp the concept that perception is reality?  I find this odd.

I think, as long as a person goes out of their way to be very helpful as much as possible, doesn't challenge people too much, and is a nice person, his reputation should be fine in most cases.  I try to work on my reputation in NH, and as I built it, people are more and more positive towards me.

The perception I've gotten from everyone I've worked with in NH that knew I was a FSP mover is that they were happy for me moving to NH or that they didn't care one way or another.  So, overall, it is very positive.  No one talks to be about crazies.  Maybe because they know me and don't think I'm crazy.  Maybe it is because they are glad to meet me or thankful for my help.  Nothing like that has even come up.

Just yesterday, while working, I talked to a guy about the FSP.  He brought it up by asking if I was a FSPer.  He then went on to explain how he doesn't like big government, has a gun and a motorcycle.  He brought up cannabis and I told him that you can get away with smoking it in MA and he said that is the only thing he has ever heard of that he likes about MA (or something very similar).  It was a very positive experience and is common of the experiences I have with people when they find out I'm a FSPer.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2009, 11:19:33 am by Keith and Stuff »
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PraeterIdiot

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Re: Glen Beck ponders moving show to New Hampshire
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2009, 11:54:11 am »

There's something that Thom is getting at, though.  And I see this all the time; anyone cites criticism that people have en masse with freestaters, and the only defense that I see is "but the freestate PROJECT isn't that it's just get people to move."

No person in NH has ever said anything bad about the FSP to me except other FSP folks like Ian and Mark (and even then, they specified exactly what they were talking about.)  Even though lots of people know I moved to NH as part of the FSP, they don't ever say anything bad about it and I have no reason to think they have a negative imagine of the FSP.  In fact, I think the opposite is more likely to be true, based on every single experience I've had.  Maybe some people act differently or have had bad experiences with individuals that moved to NH as part of the FSP, I don't know.

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Oh, but it's not about the crazies?  You say you're involved with politicians yet fail to grasp the concept that perception is reality?  I find this odd.

The perception I've gotten from everyone I've worked with in NH that knew I was a FSP mover is that they were happy for me moving to NH or that they didn't care one way or another.  So, overall, it is very positive.  No one talks to be about crazies.  Maybe because they know me and don't think I'm crazy.  Maybe it is because they are glad to meet me or thankful for my help.  Nothing like that has even come up.

Just yesterday, while working, I talked to a guy about the FSP.  He brought it up by asking if I was a FSPer.  He then went on to explain how he doesn't like big government, has a gun and a motorcycle.  He brought up cannabis and I told him that you can get away with smoking it in MA and he said that is the only thing he has ever heard of that he likes about MA (or something very similar).  It was a very positive experience and is common of the experiences I have with people when they find out I'm a FSPer.


I'm certainly not going to argue against your own personal experiences, just as you wouldn't argue against mine.  If it really is just a matter of other Freestaters complaining about freestaters then the situation is pretty well off.

I have coworkers who know I'm a freestater, and while they have given me their opinions on things they've noticed about freestaters (mostly the stuff that goes on in Keene) I"ve never directly been given any grief about it.  But I'm sure that that's for the same reason you yourself aren't given any from people who find out you're a freestater.
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