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Author Topic: Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?  (Read 2939 times)

Number_6

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Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« on: July 03, 2003, 08:32:03 am »

If we assume that most migrants from MA are statist, and there are a lot of immigrants, then there could be a problem.  But I don't know, these are just suppositions.  I'd like to see NH and Western backers debate the question here.  Awaiting your posts, I'd like to see your points of view...
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ZionCurtain

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Re:Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2003, 09:35:57 am »

I did not find alot of data on this but what I did find was that from 1995-1999 over 37,000 moved into NH. I would only be guessing but one would think a majority was in the Boston MSA and one would assume that a majority were not Libertarian.

37,000 is a significant number. It is more than the FSP membership is striving for. We will be lost in the storm, watered down.

We hear how NH is the most Libertarian state supposedly and has s many LP elected officials. They do not tell you that they have not one single member in the State Congress or a Federal Office. They will tell you they are more Libertarian because they do not have to wear seatbelts.

Again the 37,000 is from 95-99 so it is a little out dated.
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Sebastian

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Re:Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2003, 09:39:54 am »

If 20,000 FSPers move to NH, will statists no longer move into NH?

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Michelle

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Re:Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2003, 09:45:27 am »

Here is some information from another thread on this topic.

In the last two years, NH has added near four Republicans for every Democrat.  Also note the fact that 36.8% of NH voters are independents -- over a third.  This is a sign of unhappiness with the major parties and a huge, election-swaying block that demands to be courted for support.  


From http://www.politicsnh.com/scala/10-28.shtml

Let?s take a look at the numbers. The political contours of a state are shaped by its citizens? party affiliations.  What do the latest voter registration figures tell us?

Table 1: State voter registration

 
                            September 02       2001 (after list purge)    Net gain
REPUBLICANS     245,791 (37.3%)    233,363 (36.9%)            12,428
UNDECLARED     242,028 (36.8%)    232,805 (36.8%)             9,223
DEMOCRATS       170,405 (25.9%)    167,062 (26.4%)             3,343

These numbers tell us that Shaheen is climbing uphill with the wind in her face. Since 2001, the Republicans have added  nearly four voters for every one the Democrats have gained.  Democrats dismissed the fact that in September, more than twice as many voters turned out for the GOP primary than for  their own contest, pointing out the relative lack of competitive races in their primary. Coupled with voter registration trends,  though, the overall momentum among the New Hampshire electorate appears to be on the side of the Republicans this season.
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ZionCurtain

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Re:Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2003, 09:51:14 am »

Compare the migration into Wyoming.

In a 2 year period from 2000-02 the amount was a whopping 576 people. Virtually no influx of statists to battle with.

In NH we will have to not only battle with the 1.2 million already there we will have to deal with the 7,000 a year that move there annually.

In Wyoming we will have to battle the .5 million and the virtually 0 net migration.
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Rearden

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Re:Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2003, 11:13:50 am »

The only migration ongoing into New Hampshire is one of people seeking freedom.  The statists from Massachusetts are not moving to New Hampshire, because they view the state as backwards due to it's refusal to let the government take care of it's people.  

I have several friends in Massachusetts who are very surprised at my decision to move to New Hampshire, should it win the vote.
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jgmaynard

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Re:Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2003, 11:23:14 am »

If we assume that most migrants from MA are statist

Never start a major premise with an assumption. A mistake in the beginning can make the results useless.

I'm not going to say no statist has ever crossed the NH line, but there is a HUGE number of them who are coming here because they are tax refugees. That's why I moved back from VT.

JM
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robmayn

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Re:Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2003, 11:28:31 am »

If we assume that most migrants from MA are statist, and there are a lot of immigrants, then there could be a problem.  

Being next door to New Hampshire (Vermont), my experience has been that a good number of migrants to New Hampshire are going there for pro-liberty reasons.  A number of our pro-liberty activist groups here in Vermont have lost some of their best people over the years to New Hampshire.

To put it another way, there has been an unorganized FSP type of migration into NH for a few years now.  When NH passed the Concord Decision,  (I forgot the actual name of the bill, but it resembled Vermont's Act 60 education funding bill) and elected the Democratic Governor, I thought that NH had started their own Vermont style plunge into migration induced statism.  Meanwhile, Vermont was experiencing a mini anti-state rebellion under the heading "Take Back Vermont".  The aftermath of the 2002 elections have put those notions to bed.  New Hampshire has resumed its pro-liberty push and Vermont has resumed its statist push.  (I am still stewing over the just passed Act 60 "Reform" Bill here in Vermont)
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StevenN

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Re:Migration from MA: Problem for an NH Free State?
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2003, 02:26:08 pm »

Quote
The only migration ongoing into New Hampshire is one of people seeking freedom.  The statists from Massachusetts are not moving to New Hampshire, because they view the state as backwards due to it's refusal to let the government take care of it's people.  

I have several friends in Massachusetts who are very surprised at my decision to move to New Hampshire, should it win the vote.

Quote
Being next door to New Hampshire (Vermont), my experience has been that a good number of migrants to New Hampshire are going there for pro-liberty reasons.  A number of our pro-liberty activist groups here in Vermont have lost some of their best people over the years to New Hampshire.

Quote
To put it another way, there has been an unorganized FSP type of migration into NH for a few years now.

Well, I was going to talk about this on the thread of why I support NH from a non-member perspective.

There has been one very big assumption porcupines have been carrying around that immigrants to candidate states from certain areas in the country are "statists": If a population is growing, that's one thing. But notice the connotation, "a lot of Californians moving to Idaho/Jackson Hole, and Bostonians to southern NH." See, these places are bad candidates, not because of immigration, but because the statists are coming!

This is built on 2 faulty foundations. One is that people from Boston and California are all a bunch of raving socialists. This is a very bad stereotype. As the diner chef said in Muppets Take Manhattan, "peoples is peoples". Sure, MA and CA may be more statist, but to assume that "People in MA are statists, MA is next to NH, so NH is invaded by statists" is poor logic. And is Denver much less statist than Boston? (maybe more conservative, but less statist?)

Another faulty assumption already addressed is that all these MA immigrants are statists. What about the possibility that these people are tax refugees and friendly to our cause? Looking at the videotape, I firmly believe that is true. The stats from southern NH show it is generally becoming more free and likely supportive of our cause. Secondly, NH residents say they are generally tax refugees. And third, I know liberal Bostonians. They are very aware of NH's "backwardness" as they call it. They understand they hate government up there, and if you want to go to an uncivilized small-gov't land, then head north. But the statists themselves are repelled by the thought of living in NH. After all, they're statists because they like the "benefits" of big gov't, so why give that up? The only argument I hear is (from rural folks) that libertarians in big cities are not nearly as "libertarian" as their rural brethren, so the tax refugees from MA are not going to help the FSP (as well as big-city porcupines). Make your own judgment on that argument.

I also think this shows a related fear in a different light. It's the fear that those Boston statists and media will wreck the porject. I thought about this, but then after talking to liberal Bostonians, I do not feel this is a concern at all. As I said, they understand "The NH Way". Say what you will about their politics, but the MA's I know are very "live-and-let-live" types. Frankly, they could care less about what goes on in NH. They think if we want to turn NH into a "small-gov't 'cesspool'", they'd say we're welcome to it. Think of it this way: if NH is chosen as the Free State, are freedom-lovers in NH going to give MA a hard time about statist policies? The attitude I've seen on these boards is that we should let the socialist states fall under their own weight, and let the Free State be a shining example to the nation. Well, statists think the opposite way.

And I agree that have only a few hundred people moving into a state is bad news.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2003, 02:29:23 pm by StevenN »
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