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Author Topic: Why only 776  (Read 25274 times)

Dreepa

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #60 on: November 15, 2009, 01:55:01 pm »

Back on subject.

1. Is the counter accurate? Has everyone that moved been counted (most likely some did not update).
2. The SOI number should be the one most considered, while the accomplishments of the early movers might be given more PR.


Counter is somewhat accurate.
Last year and this year some people made a huge push to get movers to update their status.  There are still people who move and don't update.. .but it is 'close'
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rossby

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #61 on: November 15, 2009, 01:58:30 pm »

I think it's cool that we have 777 movers, and 9777 participants.

That means that we have rolled all sevens--except for the nine THOUSAND people who signed up to move and are still sitting on their butts at home playing MMORPG's.

Roll 7's? I want 20's dammit--thousand that is. Nerd high-five!

Let me digest some of that...
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sj

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2009, 02:43:11 pm »

If there was no difference between conservatives and liberals. Why not choose Massachusetts, or if you want a small state to wield influence, why not Rhode Island or perhaps Vermont?  If NH was alluring to you, it was not because it was some mecca for new age libertarian thinking. Its precisely because it had traditional conservative roots. Those who spite conservatives and permit the ascendency of liberals over one or two personal or peripheral issues are biting off their noses to spite their face.

You are in NH precisely because people like me have been defecting from liberal northeast states for a decade and have managed to keep NH managable and relatively free. All those years when NH was a solid conservative state, I have few recollections of conservatives dictating what goes on in the bedroom. On the other hand, all I have to do to wake up every day and witness and feel the oppression that liberals have brought to New England. 

Most hippies are libertines, more than they are libertarians.  I'm not interested in the freeedom movement to satisfy my personal indulgences. There are larger and more important issues than my thrills. Too much blood, sweat and tears have been laid for this grand experiment.   My brothers have wonderful children.  I see see the liberty movement through their future.

+1

Regarding the original question of this thread, I think the number of movers we have is astounding considering (a) the amount of effort involved in making the move, (b) the fact that there is no obligation to move since we have not yet reached 20,000 signers, and (c) the fact that many movers aren't counted because they don't sign up for various reasons.

This project is going to take time, but it's the best hope I see for liberty in our lifetime.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 02:45:00 pm by sj »
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2009, 03:10:01 pm »

Dreepa

1. FSP Board endorsed First 1,000, but not other grass roots projects that members got together and came up with
3. I've seen almost no advertising myself within New Hampshire--unless you're already in attendance at some FSP event, in which case, you already know about the FSP... I've been told numerous times that the FSP does not advertise within New Hampshire, and was even told NOT to put the FSP name an a Sponsor a Highway sign because part of that road runs into New Hampshire (the other 90% is in Mass).
4. Discussion of other free state, county, and town projects around the country has been met with open hostility here, or repeated posts have been made (including by moderators and FSP Board members) that "we don't discuss that here," or "you can take that discussion elsewhere." Not very helpful.
5. I think that you missed the key point, here.  When I recruit, I don't bother helping people who sound like they want to just move and then do nothing. I don't see that as a good use of my time.  Political activists do stuff.  Noise makers and MMORPG players don't vote out bad politicians.  So why waste my time?
6. We need many people to figure out how to do this.  This requires discussion and action.  I am willing to help out in this regard, but anyone will feel demotivated if they keep being told, "Why don't you go do that..."
7. Again, people who do nothing but troll and argue are not doers.  They are hurting and not helping.  They would get tossed off of jeffersonforum.net and more civilized fora.
9. Offering discussion and good ideas is not the same as making someone do something.  One is a proposal, the other is a command.
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Dreepa

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2009, 03:57:55 pm »

Dreepa


1. FSP Board endorsed First 1,000, but not other grass roots projects that members got together and came up with


Right can you think of another one?
Also post on Doers of other grass roots projects and maybe the FSP board will endorse them

3. I've seen almost no advertising myself within New Hampshire--unless you're already in attendance at some FSP event, in which case, you already know about the FSP... I've been told numerous times that the FSP does not advertise within New Hampshire, and was even told NOT to put the FSP name an a Sponsor a Highway sign because part of that road runs into New Hampshire (the other 90% is in Mass).


It doesn't make sense to advertise IN NH.. we want people to MOVE to NH.

4. Discussion of other free state, county, and town projects around the country has been met with open hostility here, or repeated posts have been made (including by moderators and FSP Board members) that "we don't discuss that here," or "you can take that discussion elsewhere." Not very helpful.


Discuss all you want.. but until we get enough volunteers to help with THIS project I doubt that the board will endorse volunteers to help with other projects.

5. I think that you missed the key point, here.  When I recruit, I don't bother helping people who sound like they want to just move and then do nothing. I don't see that as a good use of my time.  Political activists do stuff.  Noise makers and MMORPG players don't vote out bad politicians.  So why waste my time?


Not missing your point at all.

6. We need many people to figure out how to do this.  This requires discussion and action.  I am willing to help out in this regard, but anyone will feel demotivated if they keep being told, "Why don't you go do that..."


I don't know what to say here.

7. Again, people who do nothing but troll and argue are not doers.  They are hurting and not helping.  They would get tossed off of jeffersonforum.net and more civilized fora.


Most of the FSPers aren't doers.
Many of the movers aren't doers.....
but this is not my call regarding the forum.
Many libertarians like to debate it seems.

9. Offering discussion and good ideas is not the same as making someone do something.  One is a proposal, the other is a command.

Don't really know what you are saying here.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2009, 04:05:07 pm »

9. I get a lot of folks saying "You can't be a dictator" or "make people do stuff" when I propose things.  It's irritating to me.

I've been saying that we should advertise and recruit within New Hampshire.  Not everyone driving through is a resident, and most of the doers I know (at least out on the coast and in Manch) were folks living here before the vote.  There are over 1500 Friends of FSP, and only about 550 who've actually made the move and registered.  It makes sense to me to advertise and recruit here, and it doesn't make sense that the FSP Board is telling us not to use "their" name here.
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Dreepa

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2009, 04:07:34 pm »

9. I get a lot of folks saying "You can't be a dictator" or "make people do stuff" when I propose things.  It's irritating to me.

I've been saying that we should advertise and recruit within New Hampshire.  Not everyone driving through is a resident, and most of the doers I know (at least out on the coast and in Manch) were folks living here before the vote.  There are over 1500 Friends of FSP, and only about 550 who've actually made the move and registered.  It makes sense to me to advertise and recruit here, and it doesn't make sense that the FSP Board is telling us not to use "their" name here.

By the very definition of the FSP is to get people to MOVE here.

I agree 100% that we people in NH who are liberty lovers should recruit for :CNHT, LPNH, NHLA, GONH, etc, etc etc... but if those people did sign up for the FSP then they would sign up as pioneers and they wouldn't count to the total.  So if I talk to people in state I talk about all the stuff going on... no need to even bring up the FSP.

FSP is the bus to GET people TO NH.
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rossby

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2009, 05:19:12 pm »

1. FSP Board endorsed First 1,000, but not other grass roots projects that members got together and came up with

This is a complaint. What are our options?

What were some of the other grass roots projects that directly encouraged signers and movers?
What sort of things can the board support?

3. I've seen almost no advertising myself within New Hampshire--unless you're already in attendance at some FSP event, in which case, you already know about the FSP... I've been told numerous times that the FSP does not advertise within New Hampshire, and was even told NOT to put the FSP name an a Sponsor a Highway sign because part of that road runs into New Hampshire (the other 90% is in Mass).

This is a complaint. What are our options?

Do you want to see more advertising *in* NH?
How does spending money on advertising help gather participants and movers?
How many non-NHers will see that? How many will sign-up?
Estimates?

4. Discussion of other free state, county, and town projects around the country has been met with open hostility here, or repeated posts have been made (including by moderators and FSP Board members) that "we don't discuss that here," or "you can take that discussion elsewhere." Not very helpful.

This is a complaint. What are our options?

I have not seen the "hostility" you speak of (don't bother fishing for quotes; I'd rather not debate that point here). I have seen plenty of support for other ideas, but a lot of people noting that the purpose of the FSP is focused on New Hampshire specifically.

What do you propose the FSP could do with other organizations?

6. We need many people to figure out how to do this.  This requires discussion and action.  I am willing to help out in this regard, but anyone will feel
demotivated if they keep being told, "Why don't you go do that..."

This is a complaint. What are our options?

We have a lot of people. Some more connected than others.
Do we need better information sharing and coordination?
How do you propose we facilitate this communiction?

It's very easy to generate options when you don't have to carry the load. That is what people are saying. Good options are ultimately those that people will actually do because they really want to. A million goods ideas are worthless if they can't be put into practice effectively.

Money is a good substitute for motivation. If the FSP had a small staff for "getting stuff done", would you be willing to give your money to support it?

9. Offering discussion and good ideas is not the same as making someone do something.  One is a proposal, the other is a command.

This is a complaint. What are our options?

We have no power to make anyone do anything here. People have no obligations to do anything--they do it because they want to or can be persuaded to. There's a difference between "making someone do something" and giving them the tools, information, and a kick-in-the-ass to get it done. We have little money to substitute for earnest motivation. How do you propose to "make" people do things?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 05:21:50 pm by B.D. Ross »
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2009, 05:44:36 pm »

i thought the problem was fixed ... didn't we reach 777 already?
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2009, 06:46:51 pm »

The Next 1,000 was a grass roots, member organized effort that the FSP Board refused to either endorse or even take ad revenue for.  The Board should at least accept ads from members who are doing stuff.  Moderators and Board members should not tell newbs who have ideas contrary to the SOI to take their discussion elsewhere.  That's what Off Topic boards are for on fora.

Option?  Just don't tell people to take their idea and get lost.  Option?  Offer help, info, ideas, contacts, etc.  Option?  Read what I've actually advised in my posts.
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Fishercat

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #70 on: November 15, 2009, 06:58:10 pm »

i thought the problem was fixed ... didn't we reach 777 already?

+1
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rossby

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2009, 07:35:36 pm »

The Next 1,000 was a grass roots, member organized effort that the FSP Board refused to either endorse or even take ad revenue for.

I don't understand... I thought you said they did endorse it, but wouldn't endorse any others?

The Board should at least accept ads from members who are doing stuff.

What do you mean "accept ads"?

Option?  Read what I've actually advised in my posts.

I've read everything you've written, and I'm actively waiting for something substantial. C'mon, you had quite a list. You want to change the way things are done? Put up.
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anon37268573

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2009, 08:14:08 pm »

What would you like changed in the RSAs for incorporation?
I think the LSRs have already been entered for this session, but if you could narrow it down and define it... the next cycle comes around rather quickly.

There's some really silly, painful, stuff that is just the result of the age of the RSA's rather than logical good governance.  I'd basically just like the see the laws modernized.

Some specific examples:

1. NH will not take fax signatures on incorporation filings.  I have an Irish citizen on a board of directors for a company I've been trying to get started.  In order for NH to let me actually get the company started, I have to fly part of a dead tree across the Atlantic so that he can smear some dark colored chemicals on it and then he has to fly that piece of dead tree back to me so that I can pay the post office to drive the dead tree parts to the government offices of the state of NH.  That is just absurd!  I've done government contracting for the defense department, and they will take fax signatures on all their contracts; electronic signatures on many.  Corporate America has been universally recognizing the validity of fax transmitted signatures for close to at least 30 years now (almost as long as I've been alive).

2. Excessive requirements for quantities of board members - NH requires five board members for non-profits.  I don't even have five friends.  Not many people do these days.  I'm a computer geek.  I get out from in front of the computer to actually meet five other human beings on a good year, maybe.  Admittedly, they have a self justification for this.  It's to have a diversity of opinion on the board.  But, like I said this isn't the 1800's.  People don't form close relationships, anymore.  Especially, people who achieve significant success in business.  Many people who focus on their careers and trades don't even get married any more, let alone have the opportunity to live in any place long enough to get to know the community and form such a large numbers of friendships.  Even though NH forces five board members, they allow one individual to own 100% of the stock.  So, the other board members, even collectively, have no power.  It's just silly - "We want you to have a diversity of opinion.  But, you don't have to listen to any of it.  You can just ignore it."

There's many other smaller similar points.  I've found them common in NE states due to the age of the laws.  For example, I tried to created a company in MA before I joined the FSP.  But, MA required two people to form an LLC.  So, I couldn't get it done.  I didn't know another person that I trusted enough to form a company with at the time.

I think we could use Vermont's virtual corporation legislation as a template:

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_business#Virtual_corporations

That is exactly the kind of modernization that is needed in NH in order to attract internet and high technology entrepreneurs.

I'll look into NHLA.  But, their web site seems to want people to become members before participating or even donating.  I don't want to join any organizations that I don't have to because I occasionally travel to countries, like Russia, that require that I list every organization that I've ever belonged to on Visa applications.

   - anon
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #73 on: November 15, 2009, 09:10:20 pm »

BDR, I specifically state that the Board would neither endorse nor accept ads for the Next 1,000.  Their argument was that it might confuse people and take attention away from the Board's idea of Personal Triggers.

RRP
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rossby

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #74 on: November 15, 2009, 09:16:21 pm »

BDR, I specifically state that the Board would neither endorse nor accept ads for the Next 1,000.

Ah. Next 1,000. I thought you were talking about First 1,000.


Did you have any other suggestions to offer?
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