Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8   Go Down

Author Topic: Why only 776  (Read 22583 times)

rossby

  • Director of Development
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4801
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2009, 05:16:18 pm »

I understand your frustration with silly, esoteric threads that go on forever and mean little to anyone except ivory-tower academics and angry young men who sit in a room with a lock on the door with their maps and medals laid out on the floor (..apologies to Billy Joel).  But remember, cyberspace, like a 20 second TV report, is an extreme distortion of reality and over-represents the point of view of the Minority-but-Passionate.

I'd love to see the scope of the forums confined to FSP-related topics, and the general chatter migrate to the numerous other participant-run boards.
Logged

kyfornow

  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 222
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2009, 06:27:19 pm »

" There is no place ANYWHERE in the world where there are enough people meaingfully gathered (and planning to gather) to work for smaller, more efficient, peaceful government"


I read through all this, and this said it best- there is NO place anywhere in the world.  You couldn't even go to a massive metro area like NYC or Bangkok China where there are millions of people and find that many people in one relative location doing these things.  I live in a fairly rural area but with approximately 150,000 people within a 35 mile radius of where I'm sitting, but you're lucky if you would see TWO people actually doing something.  Most people here only care about a very limited list of choices- either church,  football, the bars, or having their house, truck and 200 channels of tv.  I live in a F**#ing small town area and the no-smoking bans, govt cameras, all that, it's already here.  I've even seen govt cameras and other major govt intrusions way out in rural areas (1984 style) such as close to my mountain property that has a population of less than 20 within a 3 mile radius, and is 15 miles from the nearest town.

Personally my vested interest in coming to NH is to defend my property rights.  It will just be a matter of time before the local thru federal gov start dictating even more what I can do with my remote land, and nobody will ever stand up here and do the first thing about it.  At least in NH people are doing something about it, (Im one of those introverted types)  but if I have to join up with others in various contexts, to defend my right to live on a mountain in social isolation, in the middle of nowhere and DO whatever I want as long as I'm not hurting someone else, then I guess I'll have to do that. 
Logged

leetpreacher

  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #47 on: November 15, 2009, 02:12:38 am »

What if you can not come to a peaceful negotiation with the U.S. government on becoming your own country?  Have you considered that issue?  And if so what is your plans then?
Logged

John Edward Mercier

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6534
  • Native
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #48 on: November 15, 2009, 03:27:51 am »

Sort of off thread...
But the FSP isn't particularly about secession.

It is quite possible (and some success has already been achieved) to maintain or reinstate personal liberties while maintaining membership within the Union.

Logged

John Edward Mercier

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6534
  • Native
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2009, 04:13:02 am »

From an outsider's perspective, twenty page threads on circumcision, bird populations and catholic bashing dont help. I'm a burnt out Massachusetts conservative, who will be moving to NH, but I am coming to escape liberals, radicals and hippies. Seems like a lot of disgruntled liberals pervert the freedom movement for one or two peripheral issues, but have no true affection for the Constitution, true ordered liberty, property rights, contract rights and a civil society.
Circumcision seems to be a debate about personal liberties/parental rights... though it may be deeper, I can't tell.

Bird Populations is about property rights.

And the Catholic bashing... well, you'll need to learn to deal with it. Its been around for centuries.
Some have suggested that it has gotten better with the Irish and Italian immigrations to NH's south... but historically it was pretty bad between the French and British colonies. Occassionally I meet someone in person that declares that as a Catholic, I'm not a Christian... but 'judge not, lest thee be judged' comes to mind; and I simply forgive the trespass.
Logged

Russell Kanning

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3535
    • We must be the change we wish to see in the world.
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #50 on: November 15, 2009, 08:15:43 am »

I'm VERY interested in the FSP, but after browsing the site I'm trying to find out why after 6 years there just don't seem to be the numbers you were hoping for?
because you haven't moved and made it 777
Logged
The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Russell Kanning

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3535
    • We must be the change we wish to see in the world.
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #51 on: November 15, 2009, 08:22:40 am »

Is it that people want to move, but can't or don't have the will?
they are all waiting for you to join
Logged
The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

lloydbob1

  • Guest
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #52 on: November 15, 2009, 08:31:29 am »

I understand your frustration with silly, esoteric threads that go on forever and mean little to anyone except ivory-tower academics and angry young men who sit in a room with a lock on the door with their maps and medals laid out on the floor (..apologies to Billy Joel).  But remember, cyberspace, like a 20 second TV report, is an extreme distortion of reality and over-represents the point of view of the Minority-but-Passionate.

I'd love to see the scope of the forums confined to FSP-related topics, and the general chatter migrate to the numerous other participant-run boards.

It was like this long before you joined.  Others have adjusted.
Logged

maxxoccupancy

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3659
  • Evil prevails when good men don't vote Libertarian
    • fija.org
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #53 on: November 15, 2009, 10:53:38 am »

Okay, here are my answers again, albeit drastically edited:

-wish washy people.  A lot of the more recent prospective movers have been generating excuses faster than we can respond to them.  Some porcs are trying to sell/recruit these folks. Others are just saying who needs them.

-jobs.  Out west, jobs go to the most qualified.  In New England, jobs go to friends of friends, family, etc.  There are still jobs being found in Manch and the seacoast, but most of the state is suffering because of the recession/depression.

-cold.  90+% of the state has terrible weather, and the parts with mild winters usually require you to plop down a LOT of money to live near the water.

-family.  Split custody, sick parents, girlfriends/spouses, etc.  These are all valid reasons, and some people can't leave family behind.

-medical.  Extreme cold, access to specialists, frostbite, severe allergies, and other issues keep people bound to one area.

-age.  For various reasons, we have very few older movers.  By far, most of the new movers have been couples, families, and individuals between 20-45, most at the age where they're looking to settle down somewhere permanently.  AFAIK, we have yet to target our most successful demographics.

-moving back out.  A few porcs have moved here only to leave.  Some leave for just a few months, while others intend to leave for good.  Some have become disgruntled about the movement, while others just lose interest.

-do-nothings.  Or folks who do very little.  Many of the folks who move here never lift a finger to do any recruiting/activism.  It's one of the most unusual things to see, IMO.  Move hundreds--or even thousands of miles--then do nothing.

-introversion.  Most libertarians are intellectual and/or introverted.  They are either not too comfortable talking to strangers or they speak so many levels beyond John Q. Public that they never quite click with people.

-internal fighting, arguing, debatatarism.  This one was predicted from the get go, but not on the scale that we've seen.  Literally every effort I've seen by new folks to identify and solve problems has been met with angry flame wars and personal attacks.  Many problems persist within the effort that cannot be solved because they are never even accepted by members.  Big concerns are met with petty arguments over small details.  Trolls and debatatarians are almost never kicked off the fora--some of them are moderators themselves.

-members are not members.  Only the FSP Board has any say in the organization.  Movers are not considered "members," and have no vote or say in anything that FSP Corp. does.  This is not a member owned organization, so mover activists have very little interest in FSP Corp.

-substance abuse.  Drinking (and other drugs) have been a major issue, IMO.  I drink in moderation, but some folks have just come here and get wasted every night, or pop pills.

Basically, we don't have a winning, cohesive, united organization.  Numerous attempts have been made to get lots of people behind a strategy, but you usually here something like, "You don't have a right to be dictator!" or "Everyone can just do what they want to." In other words, there's no pledge on pledgebank saying, "I'll agree to commit X hours a week to winning strategy Y, but only if 99 other people agree to do the same." If you suggest something like that, instead of getting input or discussion, you get something like, "Okay, FSP Mover XXX, why don't YOU do it!"

Okay, I'll go do it on my own and try to make Next 1,000 a huge recruiting success.

There were like five people talking about Next 1,000 (in 2007) for every one person who has actually done something about it.
Logged
If you are interested in putting together an IT-creative firm to help provide jobs for liberty folks in the future, send me a Personal Message.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

rossby

  • Director of Development
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4801
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #54 on: November 15, 2009, 11:33:57 am »

Okay, here are my answers again, albeit drastically edited:

...

Not your "answers". What solutions to those obstacles do you offer?
Logged

creaganlios

  • Guest
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2009, 11:52:36 am »

Okay, here are my answers again, albeit drastically edited:  blah, blah, blah....

I'm not sure that these are really valid (90% of the state does NOT have bad weather...thats a ridiculous sterotype....and medical care is a reason *TO* move here).

But it does bring to mind a quote I heard some time ago that brings a smile to my face:

"Inside every libertarian is a Central Planner screaming to get out"  LOL!
Logged

maxxoccupancy

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3659
  • Evil prevails when good men don't vote Libertarian
    • fija.org
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2009, 12:42:18 pm »

Dude, this is what's out there for liberty types.  This is what we have for an FSP Board--not exactly the Braveheart/Leonidas from 300 Spartans type of personality, bud.

When actually interacting with folks, I've heard numerous "excuses." In sales, we're taught to verbally maneuver our way around these, exposing the few people who really CANNOT move.  You then just move on.

We have folks on this very forum considering the move.  If we could get just half of those folks to come in, we'd have the counter up past 1,000.  If we could get those folks likely to move to sign up on the Next 1,000, that would be past 500 signers, right there.
Logged
If you are interested in putting together an IT-creative firm to help provide jobs for liberty folks in the future, send me a Personal Message.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

rossby

  • Director of Development
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4801
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2009, 01:19:09 pm »

I'm not trying to twist your arm. Tell me what can be done. You have obviously taken care to compile a thorough list of problems. I have faith your powers of observation extend beyond that. How can each one be fixed or ameliorated? Not "what", but "how".

This is brainstorming. No more complaining. Solutions. Offer. Go.
Logged

maxxoccupancy

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3659
  • Evil prevails when good men don't vote Libertarian
    • fija.org
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2009, 01:42:10 pm »

I think it's cool that we have 777 movers, and 9777 participants.

That means that we have rolled all sevens--except for the nine THOUSAND people who signed up to move and are still sitting on their butts at home playing MMORPG's.

How to fix?

1. Turn the FSP into a grass roots effort controlled and run by the members, mover-activists who actually do stuff.

2. Get more media attention, POSITIVE media attention

3. Advertise and do outreach within New Hampshire

4. Help folks in other states organize their own free state, county, and town efforts

5. Let people know that we are looking for political activists and doers

6. Bring in more entrepreneurs and business people to help create jobs in New Hampshire

7. Throw trolls and arguers off the fora--no work, no post

8. Set up some kind of alternative to google ads: All of the money raised would go back into liberty activism.  Those of us spending hundreds of bucks every year on ads don't really have anything like that, and it's something that's been needed for a long time.

9. Stop telling people, "Oh, a good idea?  Okay, why don't you go do that..." That pisses people off and shows no real interest in some new type of activism that could potentially lead to a lot of positive results down the road. "Why don't you go do that?" tells other people that you're not interested in helping out, nor are you willing to provide info, ideas, or positive feedback.
Logged
If you are interested in putting together an IT-creative firm to help provide jobs for liberty folks in the future, send me a Personal Message.
"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

Dreepa

  • First 1000
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5124
Re: Why only 776
« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2009, 01:53:52 pm »

I think it's cool that we have 777 movers, and 9777 participants.
 

I do too!


That means that we have rolled all sevens--except for the nine THOUSAND people who signed up to move and are still sitting on their butts at home playing MMORPG's.

How to fix?

1. Turn the FSP into a grass roots effort controlled and run by the members, mover-activists who actually do stuff.

It is a grass roots effort.  As you yourself have said.. the board does nothing.. so who is doing something?  Grassroots.

2. Get more media attention, POSITIVE media attention
Agreed
I was on the radio the other night for an hour talking about the FSP and Varrin is going to be on next week.
We just need to get the media to pay attention.

3. Advertise and do outreach within New Hampshire
We are.
We advertise in several magazine, websites, podcasts and Facebook

4. Help folks in other states organize their own free state, county, and town efforts
We dont have enough volunteers for the FSP when we do maybe we should.

5. Let people know that we are looking for political activists and doers
agreed we could do a better job  of trying to get people to Nh.
6. Bring in more entrepreneurs and business people to help create jobs in New Hampshire
Agreed.
We need someone to spearhead getting them to NH.
7. Throw trolls and arguers off the fora--no work, no post

It is a forum.  Debate rules here.

8. Set up some kind of alternative to google ads: All of the money raised would go back into liberty activism.  Those of us spending hundreds of bucks every year on ads don't really have anything like that, and it's something that's been needed for a long time.


That is a good idea.
9. Stop telling people, "Oh, a good idea?  Okay, why don't you go do that..." That pisses people off and shows no real interest in some new type of activism that could potentially lead to a lot of positive results down the road. "Why don't you go do that?" tells other people that you're not interested in helping out, nor are you willing to provide info, ideas, or positive feedback.


Maybe there should be a page on the FSP site that has all of these great ideas.
Then someone can look at them and then 'own' them and work them.
With Volunteer org it is hard to make people do certain things.
I can see lots of good idea but that I can't personally do.  Should I be made to do them?  People ask me all the time to write some stuff up.  My writing skills are not great.  Every 'job' should go to someone with that skill and desire.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8   Go Up