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Author Topic: Why only 776  (Read 22072 times)

rossby

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2009, 07:24:30 pm »

For now, I think we should spend less time on recruiting and trying to get people to sign up and move and focus on trying to fix the legislative things that make New Hampshire unattractive.  For example, I think we should work on trying to get some bills passed to make it easer to form corporations so that it's not so difficult for people to move, start small businesses, and hire other others who want to move as part of the free state project.   Vermont is currently kicking New Hampshire's ass when it comes to the difficulty involved in get a company incorporated and operating. 

Yes, that's right, a bunch of socialist are kicking our ass at capitalism... brutally!!!

Anon, I have to disagree with that.  In March of 2007 I had a dream about opening up a bar/restaurant.  By June 1, my staff was hired, I had my liquor license, my health permit, my incorporation, my EIN, my bank accounts, my staff, my Food & Beverage Tax Number and pay-by-internet tax account, my alcohol vendors secured, had gone through the liquor sales training course, had received state variances for outdoor sales and number of days open, received an occupancy permit from the local fire chief and support of the Selectboard.

Try doing all that in 3 months in any other state.

Except for the liquor compliance (and the variances), you can do that in most states. New Hampshire has a few provisions that are pointless, and the state easily loses hundreds of thousands of dollars (potentially more) in revenue each year because of it.

What happened to this bar/restaurant?
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creaganlios

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2009, 07:44:10 pm »

Except for the liquor compliance (and the variances), you can do that in most states. New Hampshire has a few provisions that are pointless, and the state easily loses hundreds of thousands of dollars (potentially more) in revenue each year because of it.

What happened to this bar/restaurant?

Ah, but the liquor license, compliances, and variances ARE the keys...it was incredibly easy here compared, to say, our neighbor to the south, where each town is limited to the number of liquor licenses it can issue...and where variances can take years.  And as for my home state of New York - "the least free state," it's a world of difference.

As for the bar/restaurant, I went in with a busines partner and we had significant, shall we say,  'artistic' differences -  so I sold him my half in March 2008. 
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rossby

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2009, 07:48:38 pm »

Except for the liquor compliance (and the variances), you can do that in most states. New Hampshire has a few provisions that are pointless, and the state easily loses hundreds of thousands of dollars (potentially more) in revenue each year because of it.

What happened to this bar/restaurant?

Ah, but the liquor license, compliances, and variances ARE the keys...

For that particular type of business perhaps. But they aren't key to most businesses.

As for the bar/restaurant, I went in with a busines partner and we had significant, shall we say,  'artistic' differences -  so I sold him my half in March 2008. 

If at first you don't succeed...
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creaganlios

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2009, 08:10:58 pm »

Agreed.  I meant "that particualr type of business."   

I should add that we were the venue for the Sunday afternoon Keene FSPer meetups :-)
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2009, 09:29:28 pm »

Point being that there have been plenty of mistakes, bad assumptions, misused resources, and top down management.  The leadership should, IMO, get behind grass roots efforts that the actual mover activists are doing, but they have come up with their own projects, so they can do their own thing.

In recruiting folks, I have encountered those problems--but the biggest, IMO, is the preference for arguing to problem solving.
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"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

rossby

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2009, 09:42:24 pm »

The leadership should, IMO, get behind grass roots efforts that the actual mover activists are doing, but they have come up with their own projects, so they can do their own thing.

The "leadership"? Those "actual mover activists" who are doing are the leadership. Get behind them! ;D

(btw, jeffersonforum.net reg is still broken as of about 4:00 PM EST)
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2009, 04:04:14 am »

anon233456, you are dead right about the need to focus on changing things in state.  I have just been saying that we only need 12-1500 political activists to turn the state around.  Trying to enlist some of the non-voters and non-doers in this has proven untenable.

What I'm saying about difficulties in recruiting, however, were problems even when the economy was in great shape.  I have heard the many reasons folks have given for not making the move.  Just as bad, I've seen many people make the move, then become as immobile as Jabba the Hut.  It's really tough heading out there all the time to pick up litter, testify in the State House, write letters to the editors, and speak out at local public meetings when there are so many who stay at home playing online MMORPG's.  There are tons of opportunities to get locals and prospective movers out to these events--i.e., recruiting.

Aside from the low taxes, New Hampshire really isn't that probusiness.  Like it or not, most developers and business owners would rather write checks than wade through red tape.  A business development that is delayed by six months may lose millions in business because of the litigation and bureaucratic hoopla that they have to jump through.
You mean like developing a retail location in Seabrook?
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2009, 04:22:27 am »

Back on subject.

1. Is the counter accurate? Has everyone that moved been counted (most likely some did not update).
2. The SOI number should be the one most considered, while the accomplishments of the early movers might be given more PR.

As a native, I'm very aware of those things that were here before... and those things the early movers played a significant role in.
The most noted being the actual change in legislative mindset.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2009, 10:56:42 am »

The leadership should, IMO, get behind grass roots efforts that the actual mover activists are doing, but they have come up with their own projects, so they can do their own thing.

The "leadership"? Those "actual mover activists" who are doing are the leadership. Get behind them! ;D

(btw, jeffersonforum.net reg is still broken as of about 4:00 PM EST)

I am a mover-activist.  I was something like mover number 40, and would have been here even sooner had I not been on a ship for several months.  Problems that I've mentioned are from years of experience recruiting folks--or attempting to do so.  I've used the term "leadership" to refer to the FSP Board, President, and various coordinators and such.  Others mentioned some kind of disconnect between the mover-activists and the "leadership" early on.  I was late seeing it, and finally started seeing the problems it was creating with the whole Next 1,000 vs. Personal Triggers deal.

I'll get right on jeffersonforum.net and see if I can get those issues fixed.  If not, I'll just upgrade the software again and go from there.

I don't know if the Board is still promoting Personal Triggers or not.  The activists are doing their own thing.
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"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

rossby

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2009, 11:36:30 am »

The leadership should, IMO, get behind grass roots efforts that the actual mover activists are doing, but they have come up with their own projects, so they can do their own thing.

The "leadership"? Those "actual mover activists" who are doing are the leadership. Get behind them! ;D

(btw, jeffersonforum.net reg is still broken as of about 4:00 PM EST)

Problems that I've mentioned are from years of experience recruiting folks--or attempting to do so.  I've used the term "leadership" to refer to the FSP Board, President, and various coordinators and such.  Others mentioned some kind of disconnect between the mover-activists and the "leadership" early on.  I was late seeing it, and finally started seeing the problems it was creating with the whole Next 1,000 vs. Personal Triggers deal.

Yeah, I've heard you repeat that no less than a half-dozen times. What do you want done? Options, man, options!
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MTPorcupine3

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Re: Reasons for hope, optimism
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2009, 11:48:15 am »

1. While the numbers have not grown nearly as fast as we'd like, they have grown. Case in point:
     A. The counter has gone up to 777 since this thread started.
     B. Our Upper Valley group has grown to the point where we've increased our socials from once to twice a month, with an additional location. The additional location (rural Canaan) had at least              22 participants its second meeting.
     C. Porc Fest, Liberty Forum, and the Live Free or Die Rally have grown bigger and better every year.
2. Most (not all) folks who moved to New Hampshire, then left, were either undesirable as neighbours (criminal, know-it-all), or useless as activists. Think wheat from the chaff.
3. More and more liberty-friendly natives and long time New Hampshirites are coming out of the woodwork and enthusiastically embracing our arrival, even if quietly. Personal examples:
     A. A family that lives 7 minutes walk down our little dirt road moved to New Hampshire for more freedom 8 years ago and are discouraged by the erosion of freedom since then.
     B. They told me about a particular farmer I've known since I moved here, but was unaware of his support for our movement.
     C. The owner of our little country store was thrilled when she found out I was a Free Stater (she asked). "I'm so glad you're here!" she told me.
4. Not measurable or numerable is the ever growing energy toward liberty activism. You can feel it. What some see as lack of leadership and organisation, I see as a movement that is taking on 
    a life of its own.

If you think there should be some sort of leadership and organisation, fine. Move your ass here and then make it happen. Armchair critics are useless—like the folks mentioned in #2 above.      
« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 11:52:02 am by MTPorcupine3 »
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swamp_yankee

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2009, 11:58:28 am »

From an outsider's perspective, twenty page threads on circumcision, bird populations and catholic bashing dont help. I'm a burnt out Massachusetts conservative, who will be moving to NH, but I am coming to escape liberals, radicals and hippies. Seems like a lot of disgruntled liberals pervert the freedom movement for one or two peripheral issues, but have no true affection for the Constitution, true ordered liberty, property rights, contract rights and a civil society.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2009, 01:20:29 pm »

Why don't you come up to Movie Night Sundays at my place in Seabrook.  I'm right on the border, and we're inviting a lot of Ron Paul folks, taxpayers advocates, libertarians, and other folks from Mass and southern New England.  Eventually, I'd like to reach 9/11 truthers, 420 truthers, and other prospective freestaters, also.  Overall, the seacoast folk, though, tend to be more local type folks who prefer to just be good neighbors.  Of course, part of being a good neighbor is helping to vote down some bad warrant articles like this one Honeywell is pushing for here in Seabrook ($1.9 million for some renovations to one of the public schools).  About half the spending articles last March got voted down, and a few more would have been defeated if we could get some activists here.

This is a weekly event, and folks are encouraged to bring food, beer, and friends. (If you can't get ahold of food/beer, etc, a $5 donation to cover food costs is fine).  This week, we'll be catching the second part of Hot Fuzz and one other DVD.

Just come up Route 1 to Seabrook.  From the Town Hall "roundabout," come straight at the stop sign down Folly Mill Road and turn left onto Charles Henry Way.  This is also listed on facebook as an Event.
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"The Free State Project is an agreement among 20,000 pro-liberty activists to move to New Hampshire, where they will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of government is the protection of life, liberty, and property."

creaganlios

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2009, 01:30:44 pm »

From an outsider's perspective, twenty page threads on circumcision, bird populations and catholic bashing dont help. I'm a burnt out Massachusetts conservative, who will be moving to NH, but I am coming to escape liberals, radicals and hippies. Seems like a lot of disgruntled liberals pervert the freedom movement for one or two peripheral issues, but have no true affection for the Constitution, true ordered liberty, property rights, contract rights and a civil society.

Dear swamp yankee,

I understand your frustration with silly, esoteric threads that go on forever and mean little to anyone except ivory-tower academics and angry young men who sit in a room with a lock on the door with their maps and medals laid out on the floor (..apologies to Billy Joel).  But remember, cyberspace, like a 20 second TV report, is an extreme distortion of reality and over-represents the point of view of the Minority-but-Passionate.

Having said that, i personally find the term 'conservative'just as distatseful as the term 'liberal'.  *BOTH* groups seek to use the power of the state to impose their view of Society.

I have said it many times, and I'll say it again:  I believe in LIBERTY...and that means I want Liberal hands out of my wallet, and Conservative noses out of my bedroom.  If you only want a society where there is 'liberty' in those areas that are a particular concern to *you,* then you will simply import Massachusetts Thinking when/if/should you move here.

I welcome you with open arms, but i hope you understand that 50% of the time, those hippies you want to get away from are your strongest allies.

Thom
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swamp_yankee

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Re: Why only 776
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2009, 02:02:41 pm »

If there was no difference between conservatives and liberals. Why not choose Massachusetts, or if you want a small state to wield influence, why not Rhode Island or perhaps Vermont?  If NH was alluring to you, it was not because it was some mecca for new age libertarian thinking. Its precisely because it had traditional conservative roots. Those who spite conservatives and permit the ascendency of liberals over one or two personal or peripheral issues are biting off their noses to spite their face.

You are in NH precisely because people like me have been defecting from liberal northeast states for a decade and have managed to keep NH managable and relatively free. All those years when NH was a solid conservative state, I have few recollections of conservatives dictating what goes on in the bedroom. On the other hand, all I have to do to wake up every day and witness and feel the oppression that liberals have brought to New England. 

Most hippies are libertines, more than they are libertarians.  I'm not interested in the freeedom movement to satisfy my personal indulgences. There are larger and more important issues than my thrills. Too much blood, sweat and tears have been laid for this grand experiment.   My brothers have wonderful children.  I see see the liberty movement through their future.
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