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Author Topic: A place for people like me?  (Read 19561 times)

aliendroid

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2009, 09:38:39 am »

Dear Free State Project,

I have a few questions in regards to your movement:

Is the FSP capitalist, or is that an oversimplification?

Are libertarian socialists encouraged to participate in the FSP?

Would your hypothetical "free state" be preferable for libertarian socialists like me (as opposed to, say, other states)?

Best wishes,
Vic Fox

There is no such thing as a socialist libertarian.  That's like calling someone a freedom loving fascist.  Socialism is considered to be a crime by libertarians because it involves taking money from some people and giving to others, which certainly is not government leaving people alone.  I would say capitalism is the most important part of being a libertarian.  There is no such thing as a left leaning libertarian.  Libertarianism is the most right you can go on the political spectrum.
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TEBON

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2009, 10:05:47 am »

you keep on thinkin' almost there
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Dreepa

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2009, 11:05:08 am »

Dear Free State Project,

I have a few questions in regards to your movement:

Is the FSP capitalist, or is that an oversimplification?

Are libertarian socialists encouraged to participate in the FSP?

Would your hypothetical "free state" be preferable for libertarian socialists like me (as opposed to, say, other states)?

Best wishes,
Vic Fox

There is no such thing as a socialist libertarian.  That's like calling someone a freedom loving fascist.  Socialism is considered to be a crime by libertarians because it involves taking money from some people and giving to others, which certainly is not government leaving people alone.  I would say capitalism is the most important part of being a libertarian.  There is no such thing as a left leaning libertarian.  Libertarianism is the most right you can go on the political spectrum.

I know plenty of left leaning libertarians.  they are working hard here in NH.
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madness!

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2009, 03:42:47 pm »

what is a left leaning libertarian? is if left of libertarian? because i thought that was just a plain ol' republican. Most libertarians are already pretty far left socially, any further and you would be a libertine. or is a left leaning libertarian a minarchist...
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yeah, an actual signature. does that blow your mind?!

Fr33dom

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2009, 03:47:25 pm »

Madness, are you confusing liberal with libertarian?  If so, they are complete opposite.
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madness!

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2009, 05:20:28 pm »

really?! they are?! thanks from telling me! i must be on the wrong board!
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yeah, an actual signature. does that blow your mind?!

Jeff LaGrange

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2009, 06:33:28 pm »

Dont worry I was on the internet looking for a free party hosted by the state to try and get some of my tax dollars back.  Man, did I get suckered.  Now I gotta move.
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"No nation however powerful, any more than an individual, can be unjust with impunity.  Sooner or later, public opinion, an instrument merely moral in the beginning, will find occasion physically to inflict its sentences on the unjust... The lesson is useful to the weak as well as the strong." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1804.

"It is the trade of lawyers to question everything, yield nothing, and talk by the hour." -  Thomas Jefferson

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

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time4liberty

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2009, 06:36:29 pm »

There is no such thing as left or right libertarian IMO. Leftists believe in personal liberty, and economic tyranny, while rightists believe in economic liberty, and personal tyranny. Libertarians believe in both personal and economic liberty.

There might be people who call themselves libertarians who don't believe in property rights, although I think this is an essential component of liberty. Without property rights, nearly complete tyranny can be justified.
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WendellBerry

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2009, 10:59:45 pm »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism

Left-libertarianism (sometimes synonymous with left-wing libertarianism and libertarian socialism[1][2]) is a term that has been used to describe several different libertarian political movements and theorists.

Left-libertarianism, as defended by contemporary theorists such as Peter Vallentyne, Hillel Steiner, and Michael Otsuka, is a doctrine that has a strong commitment to personal liberty and has an egalitarian view concerning natural resources, believing that it is illegitimate for anyone to claim private ownership of resources to the detriment of others.[3][4] Some left-libertarians of this type support some form of income redistribution on the grounds of a claim by each individual to be entitled to an equal share of natural resources.[4] Social anarchists, including Murray Bookchin[5], anarcho-communists[6] such as Peter Kropotkin and anarcho-collectivists such as Mikhail Bakunin, are sometimes called left-libertarian.[7] Noam Chomsky also refers to himself as a left libertarian.[8] The term is sometimes used synonymously with libertarian socialism[9] or used in self-description by geoists who support individuals paying rent to the community for the use of land. Left libertarian parties, such as Green, share with "traditional socialism a distrust of the market, of private investment, and of the achievement ethic, and a commitment to expansion of the welfare state."[10]

In contrast, right libertarianism holds that there are no fair share constraints on use or appropriation.[11] Radical right libertarians hold that individuals have the power to appropriate unowned things by claiming them (usually by mixing their labor with them), and deny any other conditions or considerations are relevant. Thus they believe there is no justification for the state to redistribute resources to the needy or to overcome market failures.[12]

Differing from the above definition, some anarchists who support private ownership of resources and a free market call themselves left libertarian and also use a different definition for right libertarianism. These individuals include Roderick T. Long[13] and Samuel Edward Konkin III[14] Others, such as scholar David DeLeon, do not consider free-market private property anarchism to be on the left.[15]
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Mo250

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2009, 11:18:22 pm »

what a messed up bunch.
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WendellBerry

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2009, 11:41:25 pm »

what a messed up bunch.

How so?

Being a consistent libertarian to them means being against all forms of hierarchy/domination not just the state and therefore call into question property theory.
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Keyser Soce

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #41 on: October 05, 2009, 12:27:54 am »

Dear Free State Project,

I have a few questions in regards to your movement:

Is the FSP capitalist, or is that an oversimplification?

Are libertarian socialists encouraged to participate in the FSP?

Would your hypothetical "free state" be preferable for libertarian socialists like me (as opposed to, say, other states)?

Best wishes,
Vic Fox

There is no such thing as a socialist libertarian.  That's like calling someone a freedom loving fascist.  Socialism is considered to be a crime by libertarians because it involves taking money from some people and giving to others, which certainly is not government leaving people alone.  I would say capitalism is the most important part of being a libertarian.  There is no such thing as a left leaning libertarian.  Libertarianism is the most right you can go on the political spectrum.

Some would say that socialism is the far left, fascism is the far right and libertarianism is in the middle.

Those who voluntarily share resources are sometimes called socialist or communist (they may even live in communes, oh the horror). They may also be against violence and coercion making them libertarian.
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"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." -- Mark Twain

TEBON

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #42 on: October 05, 2009, 04:36:01 am »

that's a good way to put it Keyser.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2009, 10:34:12 am »

I don't remember socialism including the voluntary sharing of resources.
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WendellBerry

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Re: A place for people like me?
« Reply #44 on: October 05, 2009, 01:12:42 pm »

Have people never heard of non-state socialism?

http://c4ss.org/content/670/comment-page-1#comment-553
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