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[Radar]

What about Ron Paul?  He's a Libertarian who sold out and hasn't accomplished anything.  While I respect his consistant voting against all things unconstitutional he is not changing the Republican party, and he represents everything that's wrong with America and with those in the freedom movement.  You can't be a nice Nazi.  Sorry, but it's true.  If you choose to wear that uniform you automatically become as evil as Hitler himself.  If you join the monster, you become the monster.  

Ron Paul is nothing more than a puppet for the Republican party.  Because they know they can vote for huge government and point to him and say they want small government.  

[Dalamar49]

Sure he's not changing the party, but he's only one man. We'll have 20,000 pro-liberty activists we can change the local, statewide party.

Ron Paul might not be changing the Republican party, but he is pushing a very Libertarian agenda in DC, which is more than most of us can claim....including myself and hell I'm the Northen Nevada's Libertarian party representitive.

[Penfist]

What Joe is saying is that we all have flaws.

He is doing a good job of it too!

What matters is that reinforcements are on the way. We aren't sure where they are going yet, but that question will be decided soon enough.

[AlaskanWoman]

ANd the Free Staters will also include locals?
 
I believe the Porcupines want with all their hearts and minds that lots of your locals and natives are already Free Staters -- that's why they are trying their darndest to figure out which state is the most Free State because it already has the most Free Staters.

Well we are NOT like the people of the lower 48 that much I can tell you. We are much more Individualists: Isolationists: Loners: Hermits: Rebels: Anti-governmentists. But does that many we are Free Staters? This I don't know. I do know that the people here, we do not suffer many things gladly.

Thus, again, look upon Porcupines as fresh reinforcements, as green troops coming to the front. And like green troops, they are definitely going to need some experienced people to train them so that both battle-hardened but tired old troops and the fresh recruits can survive and win the battle against those Californicaters and New Yorkifiers.

Cal people arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  We have them in bunches here. Should any of you thought me close-minded (and yet ya didn't take the time to get to know me tsk tsk tsk   ) then you should get to know "those" people here.

On another note,
try to ignore Radar and his unbending, uncompromising, "more-libertarian-than-thou" (I really like that phrase).
They spout sentences like
"Jefferson WAS a Libertarian plain and simple and no amount of re-writing history will change that."
when it is more accurate to say
"Libertarians ARE Jeffersonians plain and simple and no amount of re-writing history will change that."

Note I stopped responding to Radar pretty much after the first couple of his posts to me.

BUT, Libertarians would criticize even Jefferson for being a turncoat simply because he became an ultimate insider -- President -- and because he waged war against the terrorists in Tripoli and used public money to speculate in real estate (The Louisiana Purchase).  Thus not even Jefferson would have been a pure enough Libertarian to satisfy these born-again Libertarians.

Blind obedience to any tenet, faith, cause is a bad bad thing.

P.S. My city council is presently struggling with a decision to buy some real estate for cheap and re-sell it to neighboring property owners, businesses and anyone else who wants a piece.  The real estate is railroad property that the railroad has not wanted to sell to any private party -- not even the neighbors to that property.
Is this proposal Libertarian? No.
Is it Jeffersonian? You betcha!

Oww.  I just went thru that myself two years ago. So now I got a nice little road out side almost of my door. What do I care if idiots/morons ain't got enough sense to slow down going around curves?  So because of idiots/morons I lost land. Oh joy. ANd now I am told that part of my land is right in the middle of the bypass road.

Can you say "toll road"?
 

[Radar]

Ron Paul might not be changing the Republican party, but he is pushing a very Libertarian agenda in DC, which is more than most of us can claim....including myself and hell I'm the Northen Nevada's Libertarian party representitive.

While I'm not pushing the agenda in D.C. I'm doing a lot in California.  I (and my outreach group) have organized outreach booth at raves with 45,000 people.  I've been responsible for several hundred new, young, and diverse registered Libertarians and a few new members too.  And that's saying a lot in the most socialistic of all States.  Ron Paul isn't making changes in government policy or even his own party policy.  As I said, he's a token for the Republicans so they can still lie to people and use him as a false example of their desire for small government.

"Libertarians ARE a Jeffersonians plain and simple and no amount of re-writing history will change that."

<BZZZT>Wrong.  Thanks for playing we've got some lovely parting gifts for you.

The correct answer is Classic Liberalism (libertarianism) is far older than Thomas Jefferson.  

Blind obedience to any tenet, faith, cause is a bad bad thing.

My dedication to the cause of freedom isn't blind.  I'm dedicated to it because I can see.  Those who think they can make progress toward freedom by making deals with the devil, or compromising their principles are the blind ones.

[AlaskanWoman]

And I thought I was to the extreme attitude wise here. lol I am a conservative compared to you. lol So funny  
Anyho, off to stir up even more things  

Ron Paul might not be changing the Republican party, but he is pushing a very Libertarian agenda in DC, which is more than most of us can claim....including myself and hell I'm the Northen Nevada's Libertarian party representitive.

While I'm not pushing the agenda in D.C. I'm doing a lot in California.  I (and my outreach group) have organized outreach booth at raves with 45,000 people.  I've been responsible for several hundred new, young, and diverse registered Libertarians and a few new members too.  And that's saying a lot in the most socialistic of all States.  Ron Paul isn't making changes in government policy or even his own party policy.  As I said, he's a token for the Republicans so they can still lie to people and use him as a false example of their desire for small government.

"Libertarians ARE a Jeffersonians plain and simple and no amount of re-writing history will change that."

<BZZZT>Wrong.  Thanks for playing we've got some lovely parting gifts for you.

The correct answer is Classic Liberalism (libertarianism) is far older than Thomas Jefferson.  

Blind obedience to any tenet, faith, cause is a bad bad thing.

My dedication to the cause of freedom isn't blind.  I'm dedicated to it because I can see.  Those who think they can make progress toward freedom by making deals with the devil, or compromising their principles are the blind ones.

[Aaron]

Woman from Alaska,

Before reading your reply to Joe, I had the impression that you were just here to heckle us and poke fun.  Perhaps my first impression was wrong and you are interested in a serious discussion.  I would like to attempt to clarify a couple of terms.  Maybe this will help make some of these posts easier to understand.

Libertarian (big L):  Person associated with/dedicated to the Libertarian Party.

libertarian (small l):  Person who believes in the philosophy of individual freedoms both social and economic.  Some of these call themselves Jeffersonians, Classical Liberals, etc. in an attempt to avoid the big L small l confusion.

Porcupine:  Person who has signed the Statement of Intent of the Free State Project.  We can be recognised on this forum by the phrase "FSP Member" by our sign in name.  Some are libertarian, some are Libertarian, some are both, some are neither.

Examples:  Joe is not a porcupine or a Libertarian (big L).  He may be a (small l) libertarian, but he will never call himself that.  He is much more likely to call himself a Jeffersonian or Classical Liberal.  I am a porcupine and a (small l) libertarian.  I used to be a member of the Libertarian Party, but too many of them are misguided (or just plain silly) for me to believe in their viability as a means of political change.  Radar seems to be a (big L) Libertarian.

Please keep in mind that only half the registered members of this forum are porcupines.  My impression is that very few (big L) Libertarians are here.  And as you can see by this debate between Dalamar and Radar, many of us don't agree with the opinions of the (big L) Libertarians.  As a general rule (there are exceptions!) we all believe that individual liberties both social and economic are necessary for a just and moral society.  We just disagree about what is the most effective way to move our society closer to this ideal.  Also, some of the posts here are from people who would not call themselves libertarian (small l) at all, or are undecided and are reading posts to learn more.  Perhaps you fit in this category.

To complicate thigs further, there are subdivisions within these terms as well.  Someone may be thoroughly disgusted with the National Libertarian Party, but be a card carrying member of the New Hampshire State Libertarian Party.  There are as many flavors of (big L) Libertarians as there are states (plus one, the national).

The same is true for (small l) libertarians.  We range from minarchist to anarchist (most are minarchist).  These differences are sometimes like splitting hairs, but many of us are intellectuals who love sitting around splitting hairs.  The problem is that to an outside observer, this makes us seem inconsistent, wishy-washy, etc.  The thing is, opinions are like (insert your favorite body part here), everybody has one and they are not always shaped the same.

Unfortunately, some of the posts on this forum use these terms interchangeably.  I have found several of these posts to be difficult to follow because of this.  I can only imagine that this would be worse for someone brand new to this forum.  (Heck, I had to ask what IMHO means.  I have never posted to an internet forum before and I thought it sounded like some sort of health insurance plan.)

Porcupine is the only of these terms that is not controversial.  You have either signed up or not.  But what Joe said is important:  the only thing we have agreed to by signing is to move to the state that the first 5000 of us decide is the best place to help the local lovers of liberty keep what freedom they have, and gain back those freedoms they would like to recover but don't yet have enough support.  How far do we want to take it?  We don't always agree.  An example on one of your other threads is drug prohibition.  Most of us think pot should be legal.  Some of us think harder drugs should be legal, and some do not.  Why don't we move to legalize pot first and see how it works out?  We can debate the harder drugs later.  Maybe we will find that the issue is not really as important to us as welfare reform or fiscal concerns such as lowering taxes.  We will have very limited resources and will need to have priorities.

One last point:  Very few of the FSP membership read and post to this forum.  You are getting a skewed sample of what porcupines believe.  You are mainly talking to the computer geeks among us (again, there are exceptions!).

[AlaskanWoman]

Before reading your reply to Joe, I had the impression that you were just here to heckle us and poke fun.  Perhaps my first impression was wrong and you are interested in a serious discussion.  I would like to attempt to clarify a couple of terms.  Maybe this will help make some of these posts easier to understand.

Well Aaron I can and do understand that. Considering my first posts well yeah. But as I have said, I meant to shake you all up, make you all mad and see what you all said then.

But hassle and stuff, no, I have better ways to do that than post somewhat intelligent posts. And yeah I also have an unique way to stating my thoughts, opinions etc. And not even all my friends can understand me. Should I ever decide I trust anyone here, I might even exzplain why I am this way.  

But no, not just to bug ya all? No

To learn yes. I am not afraid to learn to consider etc.

Libertarian (big L):  Person associated with/dedicated to the Libertarian Party.

libertarian (small l):  Person who believes in the philosophy of individual freedoms both social and economic.  Some of these call themselves Jeffersonians, Classical Liberals, etc. in an attempt to avoid the big L small l confusion.

Porcupine:  Person who has signed the Statement of Intent of the Free State Project.  We can be recognised on this forum by the phrase "FSP Member" by our sign in name.  Some are libertarian, some are Libertarian, some are both, some are neither.

Thank you, altho I will need to reread this a couple of times to get the full story. Understanding? Not sure but I will try

Examples:  Joe is not a porcupine or a Libertarian (big L).  He may be a (small l) libertarian, but he will never call himself that.  He is much more likely to call himself a Jeffersonian or Classical Liberal.  I am a porcupine and a (small l) libertarian.  I used to be a member of the Libertarian Party, but too many of them are misguided (or just plain silly) for me to believe in their viability as a means of political change.  Radar seems to be a (big L) Libertarian.

This I do understand. The Libertarian party here is very much like that. And once upon a time, they weren't.

Please keep in mind that only half the registered members of this forum are porcupines.  My impression is that very few (big L) Libertarians are here.  And as you can see by this debate between Dalamar and Radar, many of us don't agree with the opinions of the (big L) Libertarians.  As a general rule (there are exceptions!) we all believe that individual liberties both social and economic are necessary for a just and moral society.  We just disagree about what is the most effective way to move our society closer to this ideal.  Also, some of the posts here are from people who would not call themselves libertarian (small l) at all, or are undecided and are reading posts to learn more.  Perhaps you fit in this category.

No I do not claim to be libertarian at all. In fact, other than the ones from my state and a few friends who claims to be one, I don't know much about the party, except what we get presented to us up here.  Me, I don't know if I would ever sign up. See I live exactly where I want to. I will not move. And from what I understand, if you sign you pretty much have agreed to move where ever it is decided. And I wont. So I wont sign up. Sounds fair? Hope so cos that is the way I have to do it. Also I am undecided at the polls. I refuse to allow any party tell me that I can't even "look" at their issues. So undecided I am. lol

To complicate thigs further, there are subdivisions within these terms as well.  Someone may be thoroughly disgusted with the National Libertarian Party, but be a card carrying member of the New Hampshire State Libertarian Party.  There are as many flavors of (big L) Libertarians as there are states (plus one, the national).

Ok, will reread and think on this. Confusing I can safely say.

The same is true for (small l) libertarians.  We range from minarchist to anarchist (most are minarchist).  These differences are sometimes like splitting hairs, but many of us are intellectuals who love sitting around splitting hairs.  The problem is that to an outside observer, this makes us seem inconsistent, wishy-washy, etc.  The thing is, opinions are like (insert your favorite body part here), everybody has one and they are not always shaped the same.

Exactly!!! And that is what makes people like me step back and look at ya like you are erhmmm (insert anything here). And you all can't blame us for thinking that way. If you all are having all these problems, imagine the rest of us who are even more lost!

Unfortunately, some of the posts on this forum use these terms interchangeably.  I have found several of these posts to be difficult to follow because of this.  I can only imagine that this would be worse for someone brand new to this forum.  (Heck, I had to ask what IMHO means.  I have never posted to an internet forum before and I thought it sounded like some sort of health insurance plan.)

Lost would be a very mild word. And some of the posts, alarming too. I am aware that what one posts does not always mean everyone agrees with it. Maybe I found the group of posters that was on the extreme side of you all. That could very well be possible.

Porcupine is the only of these terms that is not controversial.  You have either signed up or not.  But what Joe said is important:  the only thing we have agreed to by signing is to move to the state that the first 5000 of us decide is the best place to help the local lovers of liberty keep what freedom they have, and gain back those freedoms they would like to recover but don't yet have enough support.  How far do we want to take it?  We don't always agree.  An example on one of your other threads is drug prohibition.  Most of us think pot should be legal.  Some of us think harder drugs should be legal, and some do not.  Why don't we move to legalize pot first and see how it works out?  We can debate the harder drugs later.  Maybe we will find that the issue is not really as important to us as welfare reform or fiscal concerns such as lowering taxes.  We will have very limited resources and will need to have priorities.

Glad at least one term is not interchangable. And while Porcupine seems to be the one thing I could totally agree, move is not an option at all for me.

Yep proititize is very important.

One last point:  Very few of the FSP membership read and post to this forum.  You are getting a skewed sample of what porcupines believe.  You are mainly talking to the computer geeks among us (again, there are exceptions!).  

Ok and thank you Aaron for taking the time to explain this confusing mass (not mess) to me. I do appreciate it very much and as I said this does give me things to think on.

And I don't think you people are a bad lot. Some even seems quite nice. Not all but some  
 
 

[Radar]

Aaron you left out one thing.  All big L's are automatically small L's.  And so is anyone claiming to be a "Jeffersonian" or a "Classic Liberal".

All true Libertarians recognize the need for government but want it to remain small with very limited powers.  All true Libertarians (big or small L) are pro-choice in EVERYTHING.  

Radar seems to be a (big L) Libertarian.

I'm both a big L and a small L.  Although I'm not misguided, silly, or wrong on the subject of freedom, the Constitution, or the political unity required make this work.  And given the fact that the Libertarian party is the only party in America (or pretty much anywhere else) that will actually take the necessary steps to reduce the size, scope, cost, and intrusiveness of government, we must unite behind this party and use the strengths they already have rather than trying to swim upstream or sell our souls to the devil by joining or supporting candidates of the GOP or Dems.

[SandyPrice]

Look Alaskan women.  You are still coming off an a teenager trying to bring all angles of politics and philosophy down to your simple level of understanding.

I can see from your inability to comprehand what individual independence means to you.  
"Your Kind?  Your Ilk?"  What the hell are you talking about?

I am a old senior who has never taken an illegal drug in my life.  I don't drink or smoke and have tried to be good example for my kids and have led a very successful life.

Suddenly I am being categorized as some kind of oddball because I have discovered like-minded Americans.  The whole premise is that we live our lives according to our own personal value systems.  I find your inability to comprend how so many of us can work for the same end game and yet be so different is an indication of your utter ignorance.

I have received many emails that are disgusted with your posts and insults.  You obviously have no ability to think as an individual and will insist on issuing labels on the rest of us.  You can do it without my participation.

I have decided to back out of this forum rather than have to read your extremely ignorant and insulting words.  I am working through several newspapers doing my own selling job on the FSP and will not bring anyone here who might consider your total ignorance to be worth reading.,

Oh yes, you have the freedom to insult and point your fingers at our naivete but to be honest with you, you are making an ass out of yourself.  You are a typical example of government schools and why they should not be a part of the FSP.

Have you ever had a totally individual thought in your head?  You certainly do not show any indication of it here.  I have work to do with and for people who want a different society and far away from the label makers such as yourself.

[AlaskanWoman]

Look Alaskan women.  You are still coming off an a teenager trying to bring all angles of politics and philosophy down to your simple level of understanding.

Look shammy

You are coming across as a bitter dried up old woman who fears people who does not blindy follow what you believe is the one true way. Sorry toots but check the real world out.

I can see from your inability to comprehand what individual independence means to you.  
"Your Kind?  Your Ilk?"  What the hell are you talking about?

And I can see from your inane babbling that you fear people who does not bow down to your ~snickers~ babbling.  You have NO idea what I believe in. Never attempt to assume jack, not about me  and not about my state.

Your kind, Your ilk. What the hell I mean is this. YOU!  Your people. So far, but for a very very few, you and YOUR people come across as nuts, physcos, a bunch of looney tunes.

I am a old senior who has never taken an illegal drug in my life.  I don't drink or smoke and have tried to be good example for my kids and have led a very successful life.

Old meaning what exactly? Just because someone is old does not mean they are right.

So big deal!!  I don't drink. I don't do drugs. I raised my daugter to be polite, respectfully and she is doing the same with hers.

Led a very successful life! And yet you seek to take over my state. Impose your vague value system and beliefs on my state and my people and me? Right very successful.

Suddenly I am being categorized as some kind of oddball because I have discovered like-minded Americans.  The whole premise is that we live our lives according to our own personal value systems.  I find your inability to comprend how so many of us can work for the same end game and yet be so different is an indication of your utter ignorance.

You sandy, joined a movement that is not main stream, run of the mill, every day stuff. You plan/plot to go to another state and do what exactly? Yopu seem to think the people of what ever state you and your kind might chose should just lie down and accept WITHOUT question.  Lady you are way off base.

Again, you have no idea what I think, how I think not one thing about me do you know. You are a narrow minded person who fears people who dare question/doubt your good intentions. After all, everyone knows about good intentions.

I have received many emails that are disgusted with your posts and insults.  You obviously have no ability to think as an individual and will insist on issuing labels on the rest of us.  You can do it without my participation.

Like I care!

Like I wish to blindly follow you? Not in this lifetime. You need to get a reality check cos you are way out there........

I can't think as an individual?  Excuse me??  I am not the one following sheep like here.

I have decided to back out of this forum rather than have to read your extremely ignorant and insulting words.  I am working through several newspapers doing my own selling job on the FSP and will not bring anyone here who might consider your total ignorance to be worth reading.,

And if everyone is like you, you and your people will fail. If you run tail and run away at the first time of people questions and doubting your purest of motives, then tell me, how in the world will you succeed to convince the people of what ever state you invade, that you mean to do good? That you mean no harm. That you mean to make better their state? You can't/wont be able to. People will see you for what you are, cowards. Invaders. People out to subvert their way of life.

My total ignorance?  So I was right at the beginning, you people are indeed out to destroy what ever state you descend on. And to hell with what the peoples of the soon to be destroyed state might wish otherwise.

Oh yes, you have the freedom to insult and point your fingers at our naivete but to be honest with you, you are making an ass out of yourself.  You are a typical example of government schools and why they should not be a part of the FSP.

ANd you are showing me the proof I have been seeking since I heard of a bunch of nuts. Ya know, in a way I was hoping I was wrong about you and your ilk, but I'm not, am I. No I am not.

Have you ever had a totally individual thought in your head?  You certainly do not show any indication of it here.  I have work to do with and for people who want a different society and far away from the label makers such as yourself.

This question coming from a sheep? lol ow if that ain't funny. See shammy I have stood and stand on my own. I don't require 20,000 people/sheep to change my world. I work to make MY state better and to be more of the state I desire. I do not go and run away and then have the nerve to think I should be allowed/welcomed/accepted in another state to change that state into my own personal whatever it is you want. No, I stay and fight to make MY state better. You and your kind do not. You are cowards, you are not good people. You are not the kind that can live in my state. You are weak.

Far away from trouble makers/label makers as me, cool, just don't come to my state then shammy, cos I ain't leave Alaska. Got that? Hope so cos I purely don't care to repeat myself to a nut case that plans on breaking many laws.


Yeah, shame you and your kind turned out to be what I figured you and your kind was from the first day.  Some times is sucks being proven right. Then agian, sometimes it rocks being proven right.

[Tony Stelik]

Joe, you sand like a free mason. Are you?
To Radar:
I am Objectivist. There are perhaps 1 milion of us - I do not know how many exactly.
Amongst Objectivist I am olmoust ostracised for I joined Libertarian Party.
Amongst Libertarian I am "extimist" - by the political quiz.
And yet I am pragmatic enough to join Libertarian party as I see this way I can advance my freedom much more successfully than if work on my own (I do this still within Libertarian Party).
I I would see I can have more success within Republican Party I would work with them. In extreme situation I would work with Democrats. Whotever works for my freedom.
Spliting the hair is nonsens. As long as we agree that government is too big we go the same road. Later we can discuss how this road should look like. As for me I like dirt roads.

[freedomroad]

The very best thing the FSP can do to stick to their cause of gaining freedom within our lifetime and winning elections is to proudly stand up and loudly say, "The FSP are 20,000 members of the Libertarian party and we will control the outcome of elections without changing sides, or compromising.  We WILL forever remain associated with the LP!"

I hope to clear up a little bit of possible confusion.

The Free State Project is not currently, and has never been associated with any state or national Libertarian Party organization.  The Free State Project and the Libertarian Party are completely different organizations.  The Free State Project will never become part of the Libertarian Party and the Libertarian Party will never become part of the FSP.

There is no "our kind."  All of the Free State Project members of separate people that think and act independently.  The Free State Project has no plan to ever try to takeover anything.  

Almost all of the FSP members are prepared to compromise on most issues.  In fact, all of us have compromised on many things already.  Even though we disagree with some of the things that the local, state, and federal governments do, we still pay taxes to them.  

Everyone is welcome to post the FSP Forum.  However, there are a few rules.  One such rule is that making fun of other people is discouraged.  Woman from Alaska, I highly respect you and your love of Alaska.  I have never had that chance to visit your fine state although I have family in AK and they love it.  However, I have to ask you, PLEASE, do not make fun of other posters.  PLEASE, do not call posters "boy" or other such terms.  And most of all, please stick around and continue to post here.

Just a note on myself:
I am not saying this to make myself look good.  I am just trying to show that you can love the Libertarian Party and still love to promote freedom in other ways.

Where I live you do not register for a political party.  The government registers you for a political party depending on how you vote.  The government registered me as an Independent.  I usually vote for Republicans and Libertarians and I am a member of the Libertarian Party.  I am also a member of GOA which is a libertarian organization that supports Libertarian Party candidates on paper but usually only give money to Republican Party candidates because usually they are the only pro-gun people with a chance at getting elected.

[Tony Stelik]

Ron Paul
He is Libertarian. And yet he got elected as Republican. Radar said ron sold out.
I have the question: Would ron be elected if he run as Libertarian? I do not think so.
What if Ron Run as libertarian and of course lost? Sobebody (Republican) would take a seat. Would that be better? I do not think so. Sticking to the party line would bring worse outcome than is now.
Should Ron work to change Republicans? I do not think it is possible.
For now, as long as Libertarians still do not have winable elections to the house Ron shoul do what he is doing, that is vote NO in allfreedom infigements.
Free state might turn public opinion around and within 15 years there will be Libertarian party vs republicans (with democrats passed to history). This depends how good job FSPers will do. And I tell you guys, do not follow anybody but yourself.

[BobW]

Hi Freedom,

Appreciate your post (# 31).

My wife and I are seriously reviewing a move to Wyoming or Alaska (MadamW leans toward AK and has more friends and contacts in Seward's Folly than Aklaska Women, the recent poster here).

I'm planning to rejoin the Republican Party, having quit circa Senator Dole's nomination to take on Clinton.  This will be augmented by also affiliating with the GOP's Liberty Caucus.  In Wyoming the Caucus is not yet active. The nominal US$60 (2x 30$) Caucus fee my colleagues  tell me will allow for accelerated mobility in the Wyoming GOP.  They also told me the Caucus isn't that much of a deal in Wyoming because most all are subscribers to the doctrine, sans some of the old guard politicans.

Less the nonsense at most all web sites I visit, to include here, my political votes mirror image the FSP positions.  

Again, I appreciate your above post.

BobW