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Author Topic: Libertarian Party  (Read 14232 times)

AlaskanWoman

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Libertarian Party
« on: May 23, 2003, 12:42:59 am »

Do you peep hold with what the "national" Libertarian Party thinks?

Is this group associated with the "national" Libertarian Party?

If so, what does the "national" party think of you peeps plan/plot to overtake/overwhelm certain "select" states?

And if not, well then that is a hole nutter kettle of fish.
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Justin

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2003, 01:26:44 am »

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Do you peep hold with what the "national" Libertarian Party thinks?

Am I a peep? Isn't that the sound baby chickens make?  I like baby chickens, they're cute.


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Is this group associated with the "national" Libertarian Party?

http://www.freestateproject.com/faqs.htm  - Scroll down to "Q. Is the FSP part of the Libertarian Party?"


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If so, what does the "national" party think of you peeps plan/plot to overtake/overwhelm certain "select" states?

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1071


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And if not, well then that is a hole nutter kettle of fish.

How so?  

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Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. - Diderot

AlaskanWoman

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2003, 01:30:41 am »

ohhhhhhhhh again sarcasm and again, it be poorly done.  ::)

So Justin, you peeps don't hold with the "national" party. Figures. Couldn't cut it there either huh?

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Justin

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2003, 02:02:17 am »

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Couldn't cut it there either huh?

I'm a bit unclear as to your philosophy.  The above quote might lead one to think you believe "being able to cut it" would have been a good thing that we failed to accomplish, but your original post alludes to some unease with regard to the LP.

Care to elaborate on your position?
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Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. - Diderot

AlaskanWoman

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2003, 02:11:25 am »

Justin

I am a registered Democrat, have been since I turned 18, a long time ago.

I vote for the ones I feel will do the job right.  Libertarians, at one time here in my state, back when ol Joe V was alive and in charge of it, it was a good thing. These days it ain't. In fact, it isn't really all that much of a Libertarian Party.

I asked if you and your kind went along with the national but again you played your stupid game. Ok fine. Don't aanswer me, I don't really care. Because Justin, so far I am not impress. Does it matter what I think about you and your kind? No. But Justin, it will matter should you seek my state to subvert. Think on that.



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Couldn't cut it there either huh?

I'm a bit unclear as to your philosophy.  The above quote might lead one to think you believe "being able to cut it" would have been a good thing that we failed to accomplish, but your original post alludes to some unease with regard to the LP.

Care to elaborate on your position?
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Justin

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2003, 03:12:42 am »

Party affiliations are one thing, but what about your principles with regard to government? You state you "vote for the ones I feel will do the job right".  What job is it you feel politicians should be doing?  
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Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest. - Diderot

AlaskanWoman

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2003, 01:20:14 pm »

Ya know boy, I can't be as vague and dumb as you and you kind are so let me answer this honestly and openly. See boy, I don't hide, unlike you and your kind.

What I expect and demand of MY gov, is, (local I am speaking of here boy) they best do as the people all the people requires they to do.

See boy, unlike most states, my state does more FOR the people of this state tha sitting around with their hands int heir pockets.

I require a gov to be there and (novel idea, try it one day boy) support their people.

I require a gov who will do as they said they would do.

I require they do keep their words.

I do not require a group of wannabe punks who wants to play god in control of anything.

Should they fail to do as they promised, then they are out never to return.

Party affiliations are one thing, but what about your principles with regard to government? You state you "vote for the ones I feel will do the job right".  What job is it you feel politicians should be doing?  
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Radar

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2003, 04:38:01 pm »

If you want smaller, less expensive, less intrusive government that abides by the Constitution and allows you to live your life as you want to live it, you MUST vote for only Libertarian candidates.  Everyone else will give you exactly the opposite even if they're members of the FSP because their party will pressure them into submission.
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AlaskanWoman

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2003, 06:22:25 pm »

Excuse me?  I must?

lol Oh no I must vote for who and what I wish. ANd libertarian so far has shown ME nada.

If you want smaller, less expensive, less intrusive government that abides by the Constitution and allows you to live your life as you want to live it, you MUST vote for only Libertarian candidates.  Everyone else will give you exactly the opposite even if they're members of the FSP because their party will pressure them into submission.
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AlaskanWoman

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2003, 06:52:54 pm »

Thank you Joe

That is hmmmmmmm  reassuring to know that the Libertarian group wont overtake our state.

Now if ol Joe was alive, he would still not allow them to overtake our state.

Since you actually "answered" this question, let me toss out another.........to you.

What exactly is a "Porcupines"?

And thanks for the links I will check them out.

Do we hold with the National Libertarian Party?
Many of us do not.
Some of us emphatically do not.
Contrary to some posts here, the FSP never was associated with the LP.

Below is some of what I've previously posted elsewhere on this forum.

The 20,000 Free Staters won't accomplish much in any state without native and local support.  But with native and local support the cause of liberty can advance so much faster than the LP's paltry efforts that it will make the LP look like it is standing still (which it is -- or actually losing ground -- see the membership numbers below).

Furthermore, if some of our more radical sort anger the locals and natives with thier more-libertarian-than-thou attitude, they won't go anywhere. They won't even get somebody elected to fence viewer or coroner.

To Radar, Radracer and other such purist Libertarians...

The very best you all could do for Porcupines trying to win elections and be effective in winning more liberty is to loudly and widely proclaim that
Free Staters are not Libertarians!
and
The LP is not associated with the FSP!


Why?
See these discussions
LP or not LP?
Some disturbing election results
LP Reputation
Should we vote at some point to officially endorse a LP candidate for pres?
Rejected by the LNC (Libertarian National Committee)
Porcupines, sever connections with national LP

Here are the National Libertarian Membership numbers.
Year 2000 = 32,922
Year 2001 = 27,731
Year 2002 = 22,871
Year 2003 = Under 20,000??? ???
Source:
http://www.dehnbase.org/lpus/library/membership-hist.html
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AlaskanWoman

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2003, 08:45:49 pm »

WOW!!  Now I know who to come to for answers. Thank you
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"Porcupines" refers to the Free State Project members.
It derives from the FSP logo.
Note, for your future reference, that the "Free State Project" is primarily or only the effort to get 20,000 liberty-minded activists to move to a state that is
1) most Free now, and
2) is most receptive of such a movement, and
3) will best support efforts to regain liberties this nation began with.
The "Free State Project" formally ends when the move is complete.
Ok, I understand that. Thank you

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Then a separate informal or perhaps formal effort is begun by the Free Staters ("Porcupines") and their local and native supporters to support existing efforts to enhance liberty. As a city councilman I know there are local councilmembers, commissioners and state legislators who have lots of ordinances or laws they would like to repeal or lighten up, but they have not had the support needed to do that.

Yeah I do believe we have several of those people here. In fact lol I know a few of them.

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Then, if that works and people adjust to their regained freedoms (freedom from building & zoning codes to fewer licenses and less gun ownership restrictions) then Free Staters themselves can hopefully get elected so that the locals and natives can let some energetic youngsters carry the load for a while.

ANd the Free Staters will also include locals?

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I'd bet that in Alaska, like in rural Colorado, there is a constant inmigration of people who the old big-city or suburban regulations enforced in their new community.  The Porcupines can be allies against those meddlesome newcomers.

Oh do NOT get me started on them. Way too many to many of them.

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Unfortunately I believe that most of the Porcupines will not be "activists". Most will disappear into their communities because they do not want to be involved in politics. They just want to be left alone. You probably won't even notice them except in elections when tax proposals get voted down by bigger margins.

Why would that be unforunate?  If they did what they meant to do and it was good and not bad, why not let them "fade" away to live their lives? I see nothing bad in that. In fact, many people feel that way here.

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Unfortunately the outsiders bringing planning, zoning, codes, regulations and laws with them do not disappear, do not want to be left alone and leave others alone.  Their activism and willingness to run for office and make changes often tires out the locals and natives. Thus the big-government types win -- and keep winning in town after town.

We get them mostly from Cal, Wa state and oregon. They are very aggressive and yeah it is hard to fight them.

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Thus my compatriots and I in my small city and the Free Staters in one chosen state must eventually draw a line and say "No more!"  Maybe 20,000 liberty-minded activists can reinforce one state enough so the locals and natives have the political strength to stop the effects of outsiders who want to change small town ways into big city politics.  
 

You know Joe, of all the people who posts here, you have made the best sense to me. You were clear, consistant, was not vague, not afraid to answer questions put out there.

And man you make sense.

hmmm Guess I best head back over to the pit and post a retraction. Not all of you are off.  :)

And you have given me a lot to think about. Cool!
 
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Radar

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2003, 08:53:18 pm »

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Excuse me?  I must?

Only if you want smaller, less expensive, less intrusive government that abides by the Constitution and allows you to live your life as you want to live it.  If you want larger, more expensive, more intrusive government that intrudes on every aspect of your life, attacks your civil rights, steals more of your income, lies, cheats, murders, and steals by all means feel free to vote for anyone other than Libertarian party members and that's exactly what you'll get.  

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lol Oh no I must vote for who and what I wish. ANd libertarian so far has shown ME nada.

I couldn't agree more.  You must vote for who and what you wish and if what you wish is freedom you must vote for Libertarians voting for anyone other than a Libertarian will get you the opposite of freedom. But if what you want is more of the same, feel free to vote for people other than Libertarians.

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Though many, if not most, if not nearly all of the FSP'ers are Jeffersonian Classical Liberals (back before there was anything such as "libertarian")

The Libertarian party and no other party represents Jeffersonian Classical Liberalism.  But the phrase "Liberal" was bastardized over the years.  Jefferson WAS a Libertarian plain and simple and no amount of re-writing history will change that.

I don't care what your personal opinion is, having the name "Libertarian" after your name on a ballot is not now, nor has it ever been a handicap or detrimental to a political candidate in any way.  What is a handicap is trying to do a project of this size and importance and shooting yourself in the foot by backing non-Libertarians before you get there.  

The Republican party will never be free or support the cause of freedom or smaller government....N-E-V-E-R  Even if every single member of the FSP joined the Republican party it won't happen.  That is a lost cause.  If you support Republicans you support large government and tyrrany PERIOD.  

The very best thing the FSP can do to stick to their cause of gaining freedom within our lifetime and winning elections is to proudly stand up and loudly say, "The FSP are 20,000 members of the Libertarian party and we will control the outcome of elections without changing sides, or compromising.  We WILL forever remain associated with the LP!"

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If those 20,000 don't compromise enough to get another 100,000 voters to vote with them, what will 20,000 votes, all by themselves, get you?

It's naive and ignorant to think that 20,000 Libertarians (many of which are activists) in a state that leans towards freedom already won't get others to vote with them.  In fact 100,000 is a very conservative estimate about the number of people who would join us if we voted together as Libertarians.

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That is hmmmmmmm  reassuring to know that the Libertarian group wont overtake our state.

Rest assured, if there ever is a FREE state, it will be run by Libertarians.  Any state run by those other than Libertarians won't be free by definition.  A vote for anyone other than a Libertarian is a vote for murder, torture, lies, ignorance, greed, theft, fraud, huge government, slavery, oppression, and imperialism.  If you compromise your principles of freedom by joining those who created this problem, you become part of the problem.  America is in the state we're in precisely because people like Joe chose to compromise.  Do yourself a favor and work toward freedom instead of against it like him.

I seek to unite us for the cause of freedom and he seeks to divide us and compromise our principles.  He is exactly what is wrong in America and hopefully he won't taint many other actual freedom loving FSP members with what could end this project before it starts.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2003, 08:57:24 pm by Radar »
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AlaskanWoman

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2003, 09:11:39 pm »

See Radar

We have a problem. A problem that has the best chance to flare into something enough to blow up all your plans.

Go into any state with that attitude, and you loose. No if, no and and no buts.

You and your kind really need to rethink many things.

I will NEVER vote as someone else orders me to do so. Not way in hades. In fact, me and many others the nation over, could very well vote the OTHER way should you and your kind say otherwise.
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Radar

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2003, 09:23:11 pm »

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You and your kind really need to rethink many things

I could say the same of you.

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I will NEVER vote as someone else orders me to do so. Not way in hades.

And I would NEVER order anyone to vote any way other than what thier conscience requires.  But I was under the impression the people of the FREE State Project had a desire for FREEDOM.  Given the indisputable fact that we will NEVER have freedom if we vote for anyone other than Libertarians, I'd think your conscience would dictate you vote for the only party that actually represents freedom; The Libertarian Party.  But as I've said all along, you can vote for whomever you wish.  Just know if you vote for anyone other than a Libertarian you're voting for pure evil.

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Dalamar49

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Re:Libertarian Party
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2003, 09:26:46 pm »

Well, no offence Radar, but what about Ron Paul? Ron Paul isn't evil at all. Sure he's a Republican, but he has a pure Libertarian voting record.
He's even anti-war! An issue the Libertarian party stands devided on.
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