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Author Topic: Idaho  (Read 139257 times)


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« on: November 24, 2002, 12:47:21 pm »

Idaho supporters and fellow travelers are invited to post verifiable facts and factually supported arguments in favor of choosing Idaho as the Free State.

Critics of choosing Idaho are also welcome to post verifiable facts and factually supported arguments against choosing Idaho as the Free State. Critics are encouraged to present organized and self contained arguments rather than just rants.

If enough information can be collected, a web site can be build.

In my opinion, dedicated web sites for each of the candidate states are needed because the pile of information available in the forum and on the official state data pages has become to big to be useable to the general reader.

In the spirit of friendly competition, I hope that if one group of state supporters finds a better way to sort out this crazy looking pile of information, they will be willing to let other groups use it.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2003, 10:26:52 pm by Elizabeth »


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2002, 11:42:52 pm »

I'll contribute a summary of the strengths of Idaho's air service here.  In this summary, I am including only airports that are within the states we're considering.  Some eastern states have some out of state options like Boston, Philadelphia, Baltomore, etc.

Idaho has 6 airports with scheduled interstate air service.  Boise is ranked #1 among FSP cities for the number of different airlines serving a single city (8), and is tied for 1st place for the number of airlines serving the state (8).  Boise is also tied for 1st place for the number of detinations served from a single city (20).  Idaho is ranked 2nd for the total number of interstate destinations served from its airports (17, v.s. 22 for New Hampshire).  Idaho does also have some intrastate destinations.  Boise is average in cost for air travel, receiving a cost index of 99.

Among western states, Idaho is hands down the winner for best air service.

There's a start! ;-)


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2002, 12:33:46 am »

Here is the ranking I did on the voter initiative and referendum process for the state data page. Idaho comes in second only because of the official comment that “any voter can bring suit to the state Supreme Court to determine constitutionality”. No doubt the same applies to Montana. In my opinion, Idaho and Montana are tied for first place on this critically important issue.

1. Montana
Seem to be no restrictions at all.

2. Idaho
Seem to be no restrictions but any voter can bring suit to the state Supreme Court to determine constitutionality.

3. South Dakota
“Measures which may be necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health, or safety, or support of the state government and its existing public institutions are not subject to referendum.”

4. Maine
Secretary of State either accepts it or rejects it with suggestions for modification. Revised proposals are treated the same way until the Secretary of State accepts it.

5. North Dakota
Secretary of State either accepts it or rejects it. The state Supreme Court can review the Secretary of States decision.

6. Alaska
Highly restrictive.

7. Wyoming
Even more restrictive.

8. Delaware
No Initiative or referendum process in place. Apparently a major effort is under way to get one in place.

9. Vermont
No Initiative or referendum process in place. Apparently there is a bill before the legislature.

10. New Hampshire
No Initiative or referendum process in place. Apparently there is no effort to get  one in place.


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2002, 12:40:21 am »

One of the central strategies behind the FSP is based on the sad fact that most people do not become actively involved in the political affairs of their communities. As a result, it is assumed that 20,000 libertarian orientated people voting more or less in sync can then have a disproportionately large impact on state political affairs.

Unfortunately, what might be called the 20/80 rule is in full operation among the FSP as well as among the voters in the 10 proposed states.

The 20/80 rule is loosely defined as 20% percent of the people doing 80% of the work.

If this 20/80 rule continues to hold sway then it will not be realistic for the FSP to expect large numbers of its members to become involved in the years or decades long struggle of running for political office at all levels in the new free state.

An alternative to depending on fielding candidates for political office is using the initiative and referendum process to force the state / county / municipal governments to cut key or strategically important taxes. The especially nice result of downsizing government by this method is that if the anti-tax initiative is successful, the sitting politicians, who created the bloated government in the first place, then get blamed for the painful mess of the downsizing process (not, and I repeat not, the FSP members or candidates).  

20% of the FSP membership, then, can successfully have a disproportionately large impact by operating an initiative organization. The other 80% of us who are struggling to re-build our lives and careers in the new free state can then more easily, but still fully, participate by sending in a little money and getting out the vote at election time.

As shown in reply #2 of this post, Idaho is tied for first place with Montana for having the easiest to use initiative and referendum process.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2002, 12:29:46 am by glen »


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2002, 10:22:22 am »

Glen, 20/80 has always been the case in the 50 years that I have been voting.  I thought when I went on line that getting people activated into petitions, initiatives, emails, faxes would be a piece of cake but I was preaching to the wrong choir.  

I had been hearing the whines of the conservatives for 30 years and thought once we had a tool of communication like the internet all would work for us.

Here's an example of what I encountered.  Someone sent me a petition to get the Supreme Court to repeal Roe v Wade.  Okay I had access to 20 forums and I presented the URL for the petition.  In 6 months we had 745 signatures.  

Prior to the 2000 election we had the federal government close the valves on the Klamath River which stopped all water from feeding into the water sources for the ranches and farms in that part of Oregon.  I was sent a petition to demand that the valves be opened.  We turned in 3 millions signatures in 4 weeks!  If any of you are familiar with Sierra times you will see that we had a posse from Texas trailer their horses and they had a massive trail where they ended up at the main valve and physically opened the valves themselves.  This was the American way of correcting an obvious wrong.  this petition was picked up by Americans of both parties but few Conservatives signed on.

I submitted arming pilots, closing the borders, and dozens of other petitions (most were sent by the Liberty Groups of Ron Paul) again few conservatives signed on.  I finally confronted several of these groups and was told they don't want to work as teams.

I personally took out Vouchers and Death with Dignity initiatives when I lived in California and few Conservatives signed them.  I soon discovered that many didn't even vote.

If Idaho has a high concentration of Social Conservatives they won't lift a finger to help us.  If Idaho is still in the hands of the Republican Party it may work!  

I still don't know how many social issues will be addressed by the FSP I sure hope none.  Anyone who is able and willing to strike out for a new form of government should have their social issues planted firmly in their own lives without a need for the government.  


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2002, 05:58:48 pm »

The especially nice result of downsizing government by this method is that if the anti-tax initiative is successful, the sitting politicians, who created the bloated government in the first place, then get blamed for the painful mess of the downsizing process (not, and I repeat not, the FSP members or candidates).  
Here in WA we have Permanent Offense (Tim Eiman sp?) which has had a lot of success with tax limitation initiatives.  The residents and media are begining to see Permanent Offense as part of the downsizing problem, the blame is not sticking only to the Govt. folks.

Of course, I do support tax limitations no matter by initiative or regular legislative process.

This message is copyright 2002 by Jay Prime Positive.  It is infact 'copyleft' and available without notice under the license at


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2002, 10:18:48 pm »

Great stuff on the initiative process but lets move on to other reasons why Idaho may be the best free state candidate. For those who are willing to work on building an initiative organization Cliff and I have posted a couple of thoughts at:;action=display;threadid=783

Idaho still has the best job market of the states under consideration.

See reply #6 at:;action=display;threadid=918

« Last Edit: December 29, 2002, 11:20:34 pm by glen »


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2002, 12:26:24 am »

Here is a useable but somewhat incomplete list of chambers of commerce. There have been several unsupported assertions made in this forum, to the effect, that Idaho is not a very friendly place and that newcomers are not welcome. See for yourself just how friendly and welcoming Idaho is. Just keep in mind that Idaho is full of small towns and small town people usually need time to get used to new residents.  

Idaho Chamber of commerce:

Idaho Visitor Information:  

Idaho Dept. of Commerce:

Northern Idaho

St. Maries Chamber of Commerce:

Bayview Chamber of Commerce:

Priest Lake Chamber of Commerce:

Sandpoint Chamber of Commerce:

Bonners Ferry Chamber of Commerce:

Coeur d’Alene Chamber of Commerce:
(another) Coeur d’Alene Chamber:

Post Falls Chamber of Commerce:

Spirit Lake Chamber of Commerce:

Sliver Valley Chamber of Commerce:

North Central Idaho

Orofino Chamber of Commerce:

Grangeville Chamber of Commerce:

Moscow Chamber of Commerce:

Kamiah Chamber of Commerce:

Kooshia Chamber of Commerce:

Lewiston Chamber of Commerce:

South Western Idaho

Boise Chamber of Commerce:

Meridian Chamber of Commerce:

Garden Valley Chamber of Commerce:

Idaho City Chamber of Commerce:

Caldwell Chamber of Commerce:

Nampa Chamber of Commerce:

Mountain Home Chamber of Commerce:

Emmett web site:

Parma Chamber of Commerce:

Cascade web site:

(another) Cascade web site:

McCall Chamber of Commerce:

Riggins Chamber of Commerce:

Marsing Chamber of Commerce:

Central Idaho

Stanley / Sawtooth Chamber of Commerce:

Sun Valley / Ketchum Chamber of Commerce:

South Central Idaho

Mini-Cassia Chamber of Commerce:

Twin Falls Chamber of Commerce:

Eastern Idaho

Ashton Chamber of Commerce:

Idaho Falls Chamber of Commerce:
Idaho Falls Convention and visitors bureau:

City of Macks Inn:

Rexburg Chamber of Commerce:

St. Anthony C of C:  

Teton Valley Chamber of Commerce:

South Eastern Idaho

Downey Chamber of Commerce:

Pocatello Chamber of Commerce:

Bear Lake Chamber of Commerce:

Blackfoot Chamber of Commerce:

Grace Chamber of Commerce:
« Last Edit: December 08, 2002, 02:41:01 pm by glen »


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2002, 01:04:59 am »

From the Camelot Index:Healthy Society Component,  "Idaho ranks #1 overall and also has the lowest percentage of welfare recipients "[/b] Idaho #1 at a Score of  6.4

FSP state rankings:
WY #6  at 12.6
ND #7 at 13
SD #9 at 15
MT #10 at 15.2
ME #12 at 16.2
VT #13 at 18.2
NH #14 at 20.2
AK #30 at 26.4
DE #42 at 34.4
Some more "disturbing trends" from the statist-leaning Children's Defense Fund  (These actually bode well for Idaho as a candidate state  ;) )

--Between August 1996 and June 1999, Idaho’s welfare caseload dropped 80 percent from 21,780 to 4,365. In the United States, the welfare caseload dropped 44 percent from 12,241,489 to 6,773,700.

--Only Idaho families with annual incomes below $20,472 for a family of three qualify for child care help. Federal law allows the state to serve families with annual incomes up to $31,511. 1999

--Idaho has no Child Access Prevention (CAP) Law and has no Trigger Lock Law.

--Idaho’s high school completion rate is 88.0 percent, compared with a national rate of 85.8 percent. 1995-1997

--In the academic year 1995-1996, Idaho spent $4,194 per pupil, which ranked 47th in the country for total expenditures per pupil. (New Jersey ranked 1st with $9,361 for total expenditures per pupil.) 1995-1996

--As of June 2000, Idaho had an estimated $4.1 million unspent Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) funds from its FY 1998 allotment.
--In Idaho, the total unobligated (uncommitted) TANF funds for FY 1997 through FY 1999 is $19.2 million.

--Presumptive Eligibility: MEDICAID: NO

Source: Children's Defense Fund Action Council "Children in the States 2000"
Some recent accolades:


I did an analysis of the court systems for both gaining and collecting on a money judgement in small claims court, since I have had extensive experience professionally and personally collecting on small claims in several states.;action=display;threadid=96;start=0

(My formulations only demonstrate how successfully you should expect to have the court help you get money back that is owed you, but remember that since justice should work both ways, for both defendant and plaintiff, this needs a more careful analysis)[/b]

Idaho scored down at #7 out of 10 for small claims limits, but
Idaho tied for  #1 along with adjacent states Montana and Wyoming for ability to collect on a judgement.

One thing for certain, I was not pleased at what I saw in Vermont.  Make no mistake about it, the socialist activists in that state made a beeline for the court system and have been working busily at the halls of justice ever since they got a foothold.  

« Last Edit: November 26, 2002, 02:19:40 am by exitus »
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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2002, 11:33:34 pm »

Idaho government information

Idaho State Constitution:
The State Constitution does not allow for secession from the United States.

Idaho State Symbols:
The state is long overdue for a new license plate motto. How about a picture of a porcupine with the immortal words: “Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose”  ;)

Idaho Government

Idaho Cities:

Idaho Counties:

State Government:

Federal Government:
Idaho is in Region 10.

Idaho Politics

Election Stats:

Registered Lobbyists:

Political Parties:

Constitution Party:

Democratic Party:

Green Party:

Libertarian Party:

Natural Law Party:

Republican Party:

« Last Edit: December 08, 2002, 01:42:18 am by glen »


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2002, 04:36:26 am »



My pledge: Under no nation; under no Gawd.


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2002, 09:18:38 am »

What a wonderful team we have here.  Idaho sounds wonderful (in the summer time).  My family had summer homes in Coeur d'Alene and Priest Lake (way up north) as well as family members in Boise.  

If you can find a senior rental for me to live there in the Summer and I could keep my home here in Arizona in the winter.  I would then be an Idaho voter and activist in both states.  

I just have never learned to drive in the snow and ice and being a tad old, I doubt I could learn at this time.  

I have followed one of the congressmen from his first campaign and his voting record.  Butch Otter just completed his first term and maintained a good libertarian Republican voting record.  He could be a real asset!


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2002, 10:53:55 pm »

Migrating porcupines who have recreational vehicles will be in the best situation possible for looking around the new free state and choosing where they want to live, work and raise their families.

Self contained RV-ers will be able to park just about anywhere, but the full service ‘all year’ campgrounds are generally the best choice. These campgrounds offer more than just utility services, they also offer a free form community: Like-minded people can choose to become neighbors and later choose not to be neighbors if things do not work out.

Here are a couple of general listings for Idaho.

AAA members can use this link:

Good Sam members can use this link:

Concerning the RV lifestyle, here is a link to my thread: The Galt Gulch RV Park:;action=display;threadid=424;start=0

« Last Edit: December 09, 2002, 09:59:51 am by glen »


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2002, 10:57:19 pm »

Here is the 2000 US Census report for Idaho and the surrounding States.

Idaho County Map:

All the counties in the 6 states and 1 province surrounding Idaho have very low population levels except for Spokane County Washington and Missoula County Montana.

Montana County Map:

Wyoming County Map:

Utah County Map:

Nevada County Map:

Oregon County Map:

Washington County Map:

Central Kootenay District (British Columbia)

Here is the 2000 US Census report for each Idaho county.

Northern Idaho

Boundary County - 9,926:  
Bonner County - 37,479:
Kootenai County - 112,297:
Benewah County - 8,995:
Shoshone County - 13,443:

North Central Idaho

Latah County - 34,476:
Clearwater County - 8,544:
Nez Perce County - 37,095:
Lewis County - 3,625:
Idaho County - 15,423:

South Western Idaho

Adams County - 3,428:
Valley County - 7,716:
Washington County - 9,956:
Gem County - 15,482:
Payette County - 20,868:
Boise County - 7,011:
Canyon County - 139,821:
Ada County - 312,337:
Elmore County - 29,157:
Owyhee County - 11,008:

Central Idaho

Lemhi County - 7,606:
Custer County - 4,292:
Butte County - 2,856:
Camas County - 1,002:
Blaine County - 19,798:

South Central Idaho

Gooding County - 14,207:
Lincoln County - 4,132:
Jerome County - 18,449:
Minidoka County - 19,677:
Twin Falls County - 64,731:
Cassia County - 21,577:

Eastern Idaho

Clark County – 971:
Fremont County - 11,822:
Jefferson County - 19,578:
Madison County - 27,327:
Teton County - 6,419:
Bonneville County - 83,807:

South Eastern Idaho

Bingham County - 42,335:
Power County - 7,468:
Bannock County - 75,323:
Caribou County - 7,397:
Oneida County - 4,210:
Franklin County - 11,590:
Bear Lake County - 6,345:

« Last Edit: December 01, 2002, 02:18:25 am by glen »


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Re:Idaho Free State .com
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2002, 12:53:38 am »

Here is a sampling of the larger Christian churches, several non Christian religions and a couple of non religious groups. Some of the individual links will require a bit of looking to find a listing of their churches in Idaho.

Idaho Atheists Inc.
Google Directory Listing: Atheism

Humanists of Idaho:
Google Directory Listing: Humanism

Buddha - net directory: Google Directory Listing: Buddhism

Inland Northwest Falun Dafa:
Google Directory Listing: Falun Dafa

Hindu Temples:
Google Directory Listing: Hinduism

Universal Unitarians:
Google Directory Listing: Unitarian Universalism

Episcopal Church:
Google Directory Listing: Anglican

Baptist Church:
Google Directory Listing: Baptist

Catholic Parishes:
Google Directory Listing: Catholicism

Christian Science:
Google Directory Listing: Christian Science

Google Directory Listing: Latter-day Saints

Lutheran Church:
Google Directory Listing: Lutheran

United Methodist:
Google Directory Listing: Methodist

Google Directory Listing: Pentecostalism

Seventh Day Adventist:
Google Directory Listing: Seventh-day Adventists

United Church of Christ:
Google Directory Listing: United Church of Christ

Unity Church:
Google Directory Listing: Unity

And now for something completely different:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2002, 09:42:15 am by glen »
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