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Author Topic: Man arrested for public gardening  (Read 36909 times)

scamper_22

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Man arrested for public gardening
« on: April 12, 2009, 01:29:09 pm »

http://newhampshirefreepress.com/?q=node/380

I saw this on the main page of the free state project.  Basically the city was spending money to 'study' the idea of a community garden.  This young man thought it was a waste so he went on his own to start a garden on public property.

Is this really a question of liberty?  He does not own the 'public land'.  Is he not violating the rights of the other citizens?  Yes, the idea of the government wasting money on this study sickens me as well.  However what this guy did is equally wrong.
He did not even attempt to gain any community acceptance for his plan.  He shows up by himself and a camera person to start a garden.  Who is he to be deciding what happens on public land that he himself does not own?  What if he decides to plan an apple tree, but others might prefer a pear tree?  What if others have other plans for this public land?  This is a recipe for lawlessness and ripe for petty municipal fights.  This kind of action should not be supported by those who support liberty.  This is just childish behavior or anarchy at best.

He should have at least gotten a petition from people or actually gotten a reasonably large number of people from the community to join him.  After all, the 'public' owns the land in this case, he should have at least tried to get the 'public' to decide what should be done with the land. 

Thoughts?
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Dreepa

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2009, 02:22:27 pm »

You mentioned it is anarchy.  Jesse is an anarchist.

Also it does prove a point though doesn't it.
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scamper_22

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2009, 02:38:46 pm »

Dreepa,

I'm not sure what point it proves.  What point did he make?  He deserved to be arrested.  All it showed me was how well the police officer handled the situation.  I'm more outraged by his actions that the 'waste' of money by the government.
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pvincent87

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2009, 03:06:39 pm »

Quote
Dreepa,

I'm not sure what point it proves.  What point did he make?  He deserved to be arrested.  All it showed me was how well the police officer handled the situation.  I'm more outraged by his actions that the 'waste' of money by the government.

The activist was trying to point out that public property is an oxymoron. If the property truly is public, why can't he exercise his right as a member of the public to plant a garden on the property? That's all he was trying to point out and I agree with him.

Quote
Is this really a question of liberty?  He does not own the 'public land'.  Is he not violating the rights of the other citizens?

How is planting a simple garden on a patch of land you help pay for violating anyone's rights?
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pvincent87

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2009, 03:13:25 pm »

The one thing the activist did wrong was fail to call Miss Dig or Dig Safe. He should have done that before gardening to make sure he didn't hit a power line for his own safety and to avoid damaging "public property".

Certainly I agree with his intentions, but there is a very real danger when dealing with ANY area which may have underground wiring.
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Mark D

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2009, 03:13:55 pm »


Quote
Is this really a question of liberty?  He does not own the 'public land'.  Is he not violating the rights of the other citizens?

How is planting a simple garden on a patch of land you help pay for violating anyone's rights?

Because if it is truly public land that I paid for he, by planting a garden, is claiming it as his own.  I have lost use of it because I can no longer enjoy it for my purposes.  I happen to like playing frisbee.

That said, there is a valid discussion to be had about what is and isn't public land and what that should mean.  I've long held that one of the greatest crimes committed by the Federal Government was Roosevelt's nationalization of public lands and the creation of the national park system.  Now someone has to pay to walk up the side of a mountain?  That's insane to me.
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scamper_22

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2009, 03:16:11 pm »

"How is planting a simple garden on a patch of land you help pay for violating anyone's rights?"

Quite simple.

If 5 friends purchase a plot of land together.  Is it fair to the other 4 if one of the guys goes on his own and decides to use that land to grow apples, while the others had other plans for that land?  The only way to deal with public land is via the boring processes you have at city hall... meetings, petitions...  You can argue that you should not have public land at all, but given that the land is public, he doesn't have the exclusive right to determine what the land is to be used for.
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rossby

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2009, 03:42:13 pm »

"How is planting a simple garden on a patch of land you help pay for violating anyone's rights?"

Quite simple.

If 5 friends purchase a plot of land together.  Is it fair to the other 4 if one of the guys goes on his own and decides to use that land to grow apples, while the others had other plans for that land?

It depends how they own it >:D
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pvincent87

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2009, 03:46:10 pm »

Quote
If 5 friends purchase a plot of land together.  Is it fair to the other 4 if one of the guys goes on his own and decides to use that land to grow apples, while the others had other plans for that land?

I like your analogy but I think it has a minor flaw. In this case, a group of government officials who produce no goods or services extract money from you without your consent and if you refuse they throw you into a cage or shoot you.
I agree that the activist does not have the right to do what he wants on public land but that's just the point! His activism highlights the fact that so-called public land does not belong to the citizens it belongs to a gang a thugs who call themselves government.

Quote
The only way to deal with public land is via the boring processes you have at city hall... meetings, petitions...  You can argue that you should not have public land at all, but given that the land is public, he doesn't have the exclusive right to determine what the land is to be used for.

Indeed, the activist does NOT have the exclusive right to determine what the land is used for. Why do a few bureaucrats have this right then? The only reason this land is public land is because wealth was extracted from productive and honest tax paying folk to parasitical government agents at the barrel of the gun to fund this so-called "community property" which does NOT belong to the community, it belongs to people who hide behind the barrels of armed thugs.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 03:49:34 pm by pvincent87 »
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scamper_22

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2009, 04:18:51 pm »

I'm not here defending public land :)  I'm quite opposed to it actually.

However, given that the land is public, city hall is a reasonable way to reach decisions on what to do with it.  All the processes are in place for citizens to speak their mind.  If you really feel strongly about something, you can and should raise a lot of hell with a petition.
The only other reasonable alternative would be for each citizen to vote directly on such issues... as if they're shareholders in the land.

Let's just say I have serious doubt if his point about public lands will be communicated well.  Which of course is the entire point of making a point :P  Had he at least made the effort of getting large numbers of the community out there with him, his point might have been clearer.
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pvincent87

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2009, 04:28:31 pm »

Quote
However, given that the land is public, city hall is a reasonable way to reach decisions on what to do with it.  All the processes are in place for citizens to speak their mind.  If you really feel strongly about something, you can and should raise a lot of hell with a petition.

I agree that this could work. I actually favor the political process over civil disobedience particularly when it comes

Quote
Let's just say I have serious doubt if his point about public lands will be communicated well.  Which of course is the entire point of making a point.  Had he at least made the effort of getting large numbers of the community out there with him, his point might have been clearer.

I agree, I think he could have approached this issue differently. Then again its always easier to criticize than to act. ;D

I can say with certainty though that he should have contacted the local utility company before digging. For his own safety that is.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 04:30:31 pm by pvincent87 »
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scamper_22

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2009, 07:22:35 pm »


"
I agree, I think he could have approached this issue differently. Then again its always easier to criticize than to act. Grin
"

hehe, so true.  at least he is causing a bit of a fuss in these times :)  I can stand behind him on those lines.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2009, 06:32:50 am »

can't we all just grow some corn?
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lloydbob1

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2009, 07:22:52 am »

Not on the Green In Keene!
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ggeezz

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Re: Man arrested for public gardening
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2009, 08:17:37 am »

Quote
Dreepa,

I'm not sure what point it proves.  What point did he make?  He deserved to be arrested.  All it showed me was how well the police officer handled the situation.  I'm more outraged by his actions that the 'waste' of money by the government.

The activist was trying to point out that public property is an oxymoron. If the property truly is public, why can't he exercise his right as a member of the public to plant a garden on the property? That's all he was trying to point out and I agree with him.

If you bought shares of Google, that wouldn't give you the right to even access all of their property, much less make changes to it.

And suppose you think Google is making a big mistake with how it configures its servers.  Is the best course of action to try to forcefully change the configuration, or to convince the other owners of Google that management is making a mistake?  I think the former is counter-productive, just as what Anarcho Jesse is doing is counter-productive.  Still though, he is working for mostly the same things that I want, and he's out there doing something.  I'm appreciative of his effort, but I wish someone could help him guide his efforts towards more productivity.
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