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Author Topic: Free Town Project (Floating Islands for Real)  (Read 80734 times)

Dave Mincin

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2009, 06:27:44 pm »

Honestly I really don't know anything about Seabrook.  I have been there a couple times, and what I know has been related to be by Brendan Kelly who has been a friend
since I moved here.  Seabrook is a little to close to MA for my liking.  I didn't move to NH to hang out in MA, but that is just me, my opinion.  I have had the privilege of meeting and becoming friends with lots of folks here in the Seacoast Region, but save Brendon, none of them live in Seabrook.  Personally I believe we have an incredible and growing group of freedom folks here....but thats again just my opinion, we could care less if they are freestaters, or native.  It's about promoting freedom!

And hey Max...for the record....You never talked to me about my election run, and I have no idea where you got this thing about they found out about me?  I have never hid the reason why I moved to NH, but there was no conspiracy or that kind of thing against me.  Jim and I did a lot of joint campaigning, and worked really hard at getting elected, but in truth we lost, fair and square.  Please don't imply it was more than that.  I've been told I'm a little to honest, but if that is a crime, then I stand guilty!

Max honestly.  I have not seen you at one single activity promoting freedom here in the Seacoast region, and we have bumped heads with the powers that been on many issues.  I'm fine with you promoting Seabrook hey that is were you live, but please don't lay yourself out as and expert on what is going on in the region  One the other hand if you are willing to get involved and actually help, your most welcome to join us. :)
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Dave Mincin

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2009, 06:35:32 pm »

I love these arguments where one guy touts his not-Grafton town against the other guy's not-Grafton town.

Damn you Lloyd I hope your not talking about me! ;D  But I must confess your were instrumental in getting
Suzanne plugged into what we are doing, and for that I will be eternally grateful. :)
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2009, 07:11:31 pm »

Grafton also has a lot going on.  Anton, I think that you're twisting my statements around.  I also have done some civil disobedience, but it's more geared toward volunteerism.  If you get arrested while picking up trash at the park at night, it makes the cops look bad, because they don't have a leg to stand on.  While it's not illegal, I've been picking up trash on Folly Mill Road and Route 1 (including six more bags worth in the last two days).  People really notice, and I think that it makes a difference in the long run.

Dave is right to point to the accomplishments of local activism, and numerous people have questioned the effectiveness of noisy Keene activism.  I view Keene's political machinery as ten times worse than Seabrook, and worse than almost anything I've seen in the state.  Keene has never seen many proliberty candidates run for office, and they garner very few votes when they do.  That tells me something about the mentality of the folks, there.  Many statists out there just want to be "left alone" to a system I view as tyranny.  To suggest that Seabrook--with one third of the taxes, a pro business climate, liberty minded people, and stronger property rights protection--is as bad as Keene or even Manchester sounds crazy to me.  I don't make up statistics or numbers--I just accumulate facts and report what I see.  I have not ever misrepresented any fact or figure deliberately, and the figures I post are as accurate as I can give.

If you go to any town promoting total abolition of any government, you're going to find some folks who disagree.  The difference--to me--is that I can talk about political issues with the folks I meet every day and get a pretty good feel for the place.  Educating folks one at a time makes a difference over time.

Anton, I am one of just a few movers who actually told locals that I'm a member of the Free State Project.  Almost no one else I talked to would even admit to the fact, and thought that natives hated the effort.  I spent a lot of time promoting--and even getting locals involved in--the effort.

Seabrook has only been a project town for one year.  Hardly anyone here has heard about it, but the folks I've talked to so far are either for it, or not to strongly against it.  Many people in Manchester had never heard of the Free State Project, and I'm not sure if Keene activists are using the term when talking to locals, there.
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sj

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2009, 07:24:06 pm »

Are you done yet?



Anton, I am one of just a few movers who actually told locals that I'm a member of the Free State Project.  Almost no one else I talked to would even admit to the fact, and thought that natives hated the effort.  I spent a lot of time promoting--and even getting locals involved in--the effort.

You have to talk about the Free State Project to get your neighbors involved in the fight for liberty?? Why?
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2009, 09:40:44 pm »

It works.  If I say that I'm a member of NHLA, they are supportive, but not too interested because they figure that it's just another small activist group.  The Free State Project is better known to locals.  Many read about it five years ago when New Hampshire got picked.  I remember encountering the shouting protesters (many of whom were holding signs demanding a state income tax).

You don't HAVE to talk about the FSP with locals, but it lets people know that this is a friendly, helpful project.  It lets people know that there are more proliberty folks on their way.  You don't get people to become Friends of the FSP if you don't mention the FSP.
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erik7869

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #95 on: May 01, 2009, 01:20:17 pm »

It is nice to see the idea of a free town from scratch being discussed. Hopefully there are those who will soon realize building a town from scratch is the only way change is going to be potentially made.
 
Since the FSP is being tried within the framework of a democratic system, any efforts at selling the idea of freedom to opponents of freedom on the state level will be impossible until it can be demonstrated freedom can work at a municipal level otherwise. Until that is achieved, doing it at a state level is, at best, theory and speculation.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #96 on: May 01, 2009, 02:48:55 pm »

You make some good points.  Unfortunately, we've had to work at the State level to try and get tax policy, power, and decision making back down to the local level.  More to the point, every square foot of land is under the jurisdiction of some town, city, state, or the federal government.

There are a few off-the-grid efforts going on.  Greenfire in Barnstead is an off the grid effort, but the locals are not okay with it, even though folks there leave the locals alone.  There is also something similar going on in Grafton.
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erik7869

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #97 on: May 01, 2009, 03:09:24 pm »

Oh, I am aware of that Maxx. I would try it elsewhere. The advantages of building a town from scratch are worth trying somewhere else if people are serious about restoring freedom. It is impossible in NH.
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sj

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #98 on: May 01, 2009, 03:13:51 pm »

Oh, I am aware of that Maxx. I would try it elsewhere. The advantages of building a town from scratch are worth trying somewhere else if people are serious about restoring freedom. It is impossible in NH.

If you want to build a town from scratch, you might try Paulville.com.  I can't see that effort actually working because, from my experience, people are never willing to sacrifice as much as they are willing to talk about doing so.
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erik7869

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #99 on: May 01, 2009, 04:07:58 pm »

Sj, I am aware of Paulville also. Interesting folks, and Texas is certainly better.

Undoubtedly, if an idea ever gets going it will aggravate government employees and any others whose livelihoods are threatened by freedom.

NH is a bad chose because one thing that is needed is ‘breathing room’ from NON-likeminded people. Not because isolation is good, but because there has to be enough space to get a footing – get freedom rolling so to speak - so local bigwig statists cannot use their local powers against whatever is done. I am afraid that is just not going to be done on the east coast. (This is different from population; it is how sparsely populated an area is. Paulville has a better chance to succeed then the FSP even if there are millions more people in the state of Texas than NH because they are still in middle of nowhere. No body in the rest of the state is really going to care what happens out there but if it takes off there is no locals there to stop them.)

The difference with Paulville is they have no desire to become a legally recognized city; they just want to escape society and be by themselves.

Which is fine if that is a person’s desire. Certainly not criticizing that idea.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #100 on: May 01, 2009, 04:21:27 pm »

I'm certainly not under any allusions about how much work will be involved.

I think that Grafton has a real shot at success as a Free Town Project, and I have no doubts that it would be worth moving to New Hampshire just to get involved in something like that.  Manchester, Portsmouth, Seabrook, Deerfield, and Nashua are all great towns to live in.  You have to live somewhere, so why not a great state like New Hampshire?  While you're living in a wonderful area, why not move to one with lots of like minded liberty activists... and a one with very low taxes, to boot.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #101 on: May 01, 2009, 04:55:17 pm »

it  is  hard to find a place where no thugs claim it as  theirs .... or if you build something out of nothing, someone will want to take it from you or make you pay rent or wants a percentage of your income
since the entire US is a police state ... the important thing is to start moving forward wherever you are
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freedomroad

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #102 on: May 01, 2009, 05:36:07 pm »

Sj, I am aware of Paulville also. Interesting folks, and Texas is certainly better.

Undoubtedly, if an idea ever gets going it will aggravate government employees and any others whose livelihoods are threatened by freedom.

NH is a bad chose because one thing that is needed is ‘breathing room’ from NON-likeminded people. Not because isolation is good, but because there has to be enough space to get a footing – get freedom rolling so to speak - so local bigwig statists cannot use their local powers against whatever is done. I am afraid that is just not going to be done on the east coast.

Having lived in Texas and NH, I'm having a hard time understanding what you are talking about.  NH has considerably more freedom than TX.  People in TX tend to want to control others more than people in NH do.  Both states have plenty of wide open spaces it's just that the government tend to be smaller in NH and they people are less busybody-like. 

You are never going to find the type of freedom in TX as people currently experience in Grafton, NH IMHO.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 05:36:45 pm by sj »
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Dave Mincin

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #103 on: May 01, 2009, 05:47:19 pm »

Hey erick7863....How are things going in WY?  How is the freetown you have been talking about for 5-6 years doing?
Seems like all the information from out that way is classified?  It would be great to hear about your successes.

Just curious, have you moved yet, or just still talking about what a bad choice NH was. :)
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #104 on: May 01, 2009, 06:27:42 pm »

by the time some of these guys decide Dave Mincin will be the AG of NH and Maxx will be governor thinking about letting Keene secede ;D
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude
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