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Author Topic: Free Town Project (Floating Islands for Real)  (Read 79193 times)

Russell Kanning

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #75 on: April 18, 2009, 06:27:03 am »

btw ... Canaan is next to Grafton and keeps fighting off the zoning, but it might slip

lempster might actually be south of concord, but not as close to baaaahston

if you want a place that has lower property tax % and close to boston, then maxx's seabrook would work

I try to be as far from boston as possible :)

grafton and other places tax rates are horrid, luckily the prices are cheaper and they don't constantly tell us what to do ... most tyranny here comes from the state level regarding house building and such
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Luck

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #76 on: April 18, 2009, 08:37:52 am »

most tyranny here comes from the state level regarding house building and such
* Does the state impose building and land use restrictions? If so, what restrictions do you know of and do you know where I can find info on the restrictions?
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Luck

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« Reply #77 on: April 18, 2009, 08:53:59 am »

* Last summer I started a thread on NH land for sale here:
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=15704.msg189615.
It showed 40 properties under $5,000 per acre for properties from 10 to 239 acres, plus one over 6,000 acres.

* This webpage http://www.landandfarm.com/lf/s/63/central_new_hampshire.asp lists a property north of Concord for over 6,500 per acre. I don't imagine those other properties all sold, but I don't see them listed. Here's info on the 45 acre place. County: Merrimack. Old Turnpike Rd, Salisbury, NH 03268 - (undeveloped land, recreational property, residential land) 45 acre $295,000. Christy Goodhue Real Estate, 148 King St., Boscawen, NH 03303, 603-796-2082, 603-731-5175.

* Is anyone looking to buy land cooperatively? I suppose group renting of land might be a better option. Agreed?
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Luck

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2009, 08:23:40 pm »

* I just noticed some pretty good prices for homes or land in NH on Craigslist.
$35,000 Campton NH http://nh.craigslist.org/reo/1131868923.html
$77,000 Alstead, NH http://nh.craigslist.org/reb/1131590328.html
$81,900 Bethlehem, NH http://nh.craigslist.org/reb/1131569895.html
$41,900 Ossipee, NH http://nh.craigslist.org/reb/1131533411.html
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #79 on: April 23, 2009, 03:20:45 pm »

For that matter, there are some good deals on land in Seabrook, at the moment.  If you are willing to pick something up just west of I-95, you can get a couple of acres for not very much money.  Land on the seacoast is generally considered fairly expensive.
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TEBON

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #80 on: April 23, 2009, 07:12:46 pm »

I agree, if you check out the area west of 95, there's plenty of land and it's nice and quiet.  I'd suggest somewhere off of Route 107 near Kensington.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #81 on: April 24, 2009, 02:58:56 pm »

Yeah, but not IN Kensington, because your taxes are higher and they double charge you for everything.  If you go out there, get a couple of acres that are inside the town line.
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TEBON

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #82 on: April 24, 2009, 03:09:39 pm »

Anywhere around the reservoir is nice, but the taxes should definitely be taken into consideration.  South Hampton is also quite nice.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2009, 04:55:01 pm »

Talking with folks who've been stonewalled, arrested, or who've lost local races, it's upsetting to see so many so spread out.  You really need to have about one political activist per 200 or so voters to make a dent in a town.  One bad police chief can make life difficult for people.  One bad school board member can really push things in the wrong direction.

On the other hand, if you had 20 activists in a town with 700 voters, it wouldn't take long to get rid of anyone who was abusing their political position.  The original goal of the FSP was to get about one activist for every 100 residents, or about one for every 15-20 voters.  When the numbers didn't pan out, initially, the talk moved to establishing several free town efforts.  Since then, a few of us have been working to recruit movers to a few different towns in New Hampshire, hoping to get about 2-3 activists per thousand.  We may not be able to get to 20,000 activists in total, but we may be able to reach that high a concentration in a few towns.

Seabrook, Manchester, Keene, Grafton, and a couple of other towns are already are moving in this direction.  Grafton, Manchester, and Seabrook already have very large proliberty populations and good numbers of Ron Paul folks.  I believe that this is critical to making those towns successful efforts--getting the hassle factor in those towns down to an absolute minimum.
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Dave Mincin

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2009, 06:30:26 pm »

Max...HELLO!...I think it is great that you provide temporary housing for folks who move to NH, but I know of no one who stayed at your place who actually stayed in Seabrook.  Tell me I'm wrong.  Talking to folks who have lost races?  I know most of those folks, and I know of no one you talked to?  Maybe I'm wrong, but if so, tell us who you talked to.

"The original goal of the FSP was to get about one activist for every 100 residents."  Hogwash!  I suggest you read Jason's orginal article proposing the FSP.  There is nothing in there that says that!  If I'm wrong show me.  I've talked to Jason and consider him a friend.  The idea was to move to NH, where you moved was your choice, and then become a good neighbor and work in your community to help make NH more free.

Seabrook...One of the places folks are landing?  Hogwash.  I know a good number of the folks who have moved to the Seacoast Region, and I know of no one save you that has moved to Seabrook.  I agree that Seabrook has lots of liberty folks, but they are not freestaters.  Keith mentioned 2 folks, but they have not plugged in with us.
As for Brendon Kelly, he's a friend.   Per Brendon, you have done nothing to help him get elected, save putting a sign in your yard, and were missing in action at the deliberative sessions in Seabrook.

As for Seabrook, it's a nice little town, but remote, setting on the MA border.  It's hardlly the center of activity in the Seacoast Region.  In fact most of the folks who live in this region and have been working to promote freedom don't even know you, and that is on you!  From were I live in the region, I can get to both Manchester and Cojncord faster than I can get to Seabrook, so why would I even want to go there?

Sorry folks, don't mean to sound negative, but in truth, there is lots going on in the Seacoast Region.  We helped spearhead the tax caps in both Rochester and Dover, and meet regularly to promote freedom, and have a great social life, but it's not in Seabrook.  Try Dover, Rochester, or Portsmouth.

Keep up the good work Max, but please stop making stuff up!
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Dreepa

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #85 on: April 25, 2009, 06:12:24 am »

and good numbers of Ron Paul folks. 
who didn't vote I guess.... see my other post regarding votes for RP in Seabrook itself.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2009, 03:22:59 am »

I saw it.  Only about 700 people voted in Seabrook for the prez primary. Consequently, Ron Paul garnered almost 11% here, despite having not visited the seacoast once, as far as I know.  I heard from seacoasters who said that they weren't hearing from any of the candidates, but that's another matter.  Most never heard about Ron Paul, but heard about Brendan Kelly, who has been writing very similar letters to the editor and talking to folks directly for many years, here.  They know his views, and elected him handily over a better known liberal who had some insider support.  I'd met several of angry statists in Manchester, but have yet to meet one here in Seabrook.

Dave, I'm not good with names, have no great memory for numbers or details, and am not great with words or arguments.  The end point is that: I believe, for many reasons, that it's better to concentrate activists in a few small areas than be spread out.  The original goal of the FSP was to get 20,000 activists into a state of 2 million or fewer residents.  Doing the math, one activist per 100 residents.  This was stated repeatedly in the Which State discussion, and was based on a long series of assumptions that a few of us questioned at the time.  I've said that you only need one activist per 100 voters, or so, amongst largely proliberty populations.  I stated at the 2004 Porcfest (several times) that we shouldn't need more than, perhaps, 5-6,000 activists to turn New Hampshire around, including mostly locals.  You just don't need as many activists if you find strongly proliberty local populations.

I spoke with you, Dave, and you lost your races for State Rep because the political machinery found you out, turned against you, and ran a smear campaign.  I know of a few movers to Seabrook, but I don't bother with the names and other details because you just argue every small point in these fora, then say that so n' so said something bad about me behind my back.  Well who cares?  Seabrook, despite being a free town effort for only one year, now has freestaters looking into permanent residency, here. 

I don't make things up, I don't lie, and I don't exaggerate facts.  You repeatedly have argued against points that I never made.  I don't need someone to sign up on the FSP website to be a liberty activist.  In my mind, a liberty activist is someone who is active in promoting liberty.  I know tons of fspers who move in and do nothing--some then leave the state or just fade away somewhere.  I am not arguing that this is not their right.  I am not arguing that they have to follow some plan I've concocted.  I am not arguing at all.  I am just tired of having you call me a liar publicly, then forcing me to restate things--sometimes five or six times--just to defend what I've already stated.

You picked Barrington to reside in, and your own failed election bids (and the actions of the political establishment) offered some convincing evidence, to my satisfaction, of the district's lackluster support for proliberty candidates.  The poor grades and high number of D, F, and CT candidates being elected from there worry me even more.  It's not, for me, the grades right this minute of State Reps, but the actual vote totals each year for proliberty people in general.  Having election results and voting records going back to about 2004, Barrington area voters have cast a lot of ballots for statists.  They haven't cast so many for proliberty candidates--perhaps fewer have run. The seacoast isn't known for electing lots of proliberty people, but Seabrook has several times--and at both the state and local level.  Talking to residents, I find some Seabrook folk will disagree with some aspect of what the effort is promoting (like legalizing prostitution, or privatizing "everything"), but they're so much more proliberty than folks I've found anywhere else.  The stats look good for Seabrook, but it's impossible to quantify the actual attitudes of folks.  Half of the spending articles that came up in Seabrook were defeated, despite the fact that Concerned Taxpayers of Seabrook hasn't held a single meeting this year (due to the organizer's health issues), or any organized effort to fight those measures.

I am making the case for encouraging migration to a few towns first, and working to improve the political and social climate in those already proliberty towns.  Seabrook is brand new effort that has only been through a single local election.  Seabrook offers easy freeway access, and quick access to almost everything--including Mass.  I've timed my drive to and from Manchester several times at between 40-45 minutes, about the same as Boston.  The climate, here, is milder, and the people friendly.  The town has very low unemployment, and you don't get charged twice for every service.  We don't have half the fines you encounter in other towns.  We don't have parking meters, extra charges for sewer, trash pick up, recycling, transfer station, beach parking, or even library fines.  We have hardly any fees, reasonable property assessments, and a very practical town government.  The zoning laws are flexible, and variances are offered, in most cases, automatically.  The town is very pro business, and folks have had a much easier time here getting things done than in neighboring areas.  Kevin Bloom stated that Seabrook was dramatically easier to deal with than Manchester as a prospective business owner, though the commercial property turned out to be a bit too expensive.

We offered to do a lot more to help Brendan get elected to State House, but he decided at the last minute not to focus on Seabrook, and to just do a mass mailer to outlying areas that are harder to doorbell.  Keith and I both offered to help, but nothing was given to us to promote or distribute.  I also donated money to his campaign, and spoke to folks here on his behalf.

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lloydbob1

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2009, 05:30:35 am »

I love these arguments where one guy touts his not-Grafton town against the other guy's not-Grafton town.
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TEBON

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2009, 01:45:24 pm »

Dave has an excellent post.  I live next to Seabrook and I don't even want to move there because of all the "opinions" that are factually wrong, exaggerated, and even untrue.

I've, too, heard of Seacoast activism. . .but it happens in Hampton (NHLA Gold Sheets), Rochester/Dover (SEAL). . . but where is the activism in Seabrook?  WHERE?????  I drive around all the time and DO actually talk to people about being free and not obeying stupid government dictates.  People still think I'm loony which suffice to say means that not much talk actually happens in Seabrook.  You'd figure that in over a year I'd find at least one person that even knows what the FSP is.

Dave is right on point except for Seabrook itself. . . I love Seabrook. . it's beautiful with a beach that's second to none around here.  I get a feeling of contentment when I drive down 286 to the beach to smell the salt water.  All that said, Seabrook is not free, and no amount of "talking" is going to do anything in the town to make it more free.   All that is fine, whatever, it's just like any other town (sans Grafton/Keene/Manchester) with its oppressive government.  The difference is that one person who is a vocal FSP member and PorcManor owner does not want civil disobedience in "his" town. 

You know, that stuff that actually gets the word "FREE STATE PROJECT" into people's minds, yeah that's not wanted here.  It'll hurt all the "talking" and "listening" that's going on in town.

I don't even like coming to this board.  Usually I like to talk to people who have a wee bit of principle, just a little, and don't want to take my money without my permission.  I'm not really into hanging out with people who want to kill a lot of brown people or get an even larger military.  I'm not into hanging out with "FreeStaters" who enjoy talking about how great it'll be to take a 'little' bit of everyone's money to fund their worldly desires.

When I go to Keene, it's fun, and stuff gets done there, true activism. . . getting the word out.  Even a "bad thought" by a statist at least gets the idea out to the people.  All the "talking" and "listening" isn't really doing much to change the collective mindset in Seabrook.  It "MIGHT" (can I say that again?)  MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT MIGHT have more "liberty oriented" (as long as you're not gay, hispanic, or black) people. . . but it is no where near in the realm of the activism in Keene and Manchester.  No one in Seabrook is even half as "free" as the people in Grafton are.  I would go so far as to say when I visited Grafton I felt more free to do things I want than I have in years.

Next time I come up Lloyd I hope you're not painting your house!
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lloydbob1

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2009, 06:13:10 pm »

I put down the brush as soon as you left.  I'll get back to it during your next visit :P
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