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Author Topic: Free Town Project (Floating Islands for Real)  (Read 70486 times)

Alex Free Market

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #135 on: May 24, 2009, 07:48:23 pm »


re. ownership by LLC...

The problem is that, unless you plan on eschewing such things as voting, registering a vehicle in your name (although you can use a LLC for this too), a postal address and/or deliveries, and a terrestrial phone line, it will rapidly become rather difficult to maintain the anonymity. 


There is supposed to be a fairly good book on this topic that came out a few years ago, "How to Be Invisible: The Essential Guide to Protecting Your Personal Privacy, Your Assets, and Your Life," by J.J. Luna.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Invisible-Essential-Protecting/dp/0312319061/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1243211985&sr=1-1


Got good reviews, and it covers the LLC thing a bit, and also has information on how to use addresses where you receive mail at, that you don't really live at, so as to provide a bit of additional "insulation" between your name, versus where you actually live.

The number one piece of advice from the book, supposedly, is that you should never use your actual residence on any forms, licenses or permits.... like drivers licenses and registrations, etc... There needs to supposedly be a disconnect between where you actually live, versus your name and residence as it is listed on documents like a drivers license.  This provides marginal protection, certainly not complete privacy by any means, but the authors premise is supposedly that that is the absolute minimum thing you need to do.
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It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. - James Madison, The Federalist No. 62

Russell Kanning

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #136 on: May 25, 2009, 12:13:45 pm »

we might have jj luna hidden in grafton ... but how would anyone know
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

rossby

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #137 on: May 25, 2009, 04:49:28 pm »

re. ownership by LLC...

The problem is that, unless you plan on eschewing such things as voting, registering a vehicle in your name (although you can use a LLC for this too), a postal address and/or deliveries, and a terrestrial phone line, it will rapidly become rather difficult to maintain the anonymity.

Each point there is relatively easy to fix ;)
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Luck

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #138 on: May 26, 2009, 02:44:42 pm »

Each point there is relatively easy to fix.
* Where's a good place to find info on all those fixes?
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Luck

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Salvation via Circle Cities
« Reply #139 on: May 26, 2009, 03:19:24 pm »

* This is what Bob and I discussed a few months ago.
* Bob said his Circle Cities idea could save civilization, that's why the title of this.
* Here's more on Bob's idea since our chatroom discussion. My main interest in this at present is potential win-win dialog with the rich. Here's our recent exchange. My part is questions; his is answers.

* Can you fill in the gaps here in your plan from the chatroom the other day?
Parts of Bob's Plan:
- create local business groups, that empower people
- start 24-hr free food vegan cafes where people can meet
- Phase one: get fully funded groups
- Phase two: what? building structures, circle cities?
- In circle cities [?] there's no rat race and no Money needed
- The super rich believe we wish them harm, the result of money inequality
- The rich need a place where they feel safe to be themselves
- start a global wealth creating project to create millions of jobs
- the structures themselves are wealth
Questions
* 1. How do we create local business groups?
I'm calling for volunteers to help start things off in my own area as a test bed. I have one volunteer but I need about twenty-five. I have money and knowledge about making money and acquiring properties on mortgages. Also, businesses can be bought and local money used to help in the purchase. You will need far more details but this email will need to be short and to the point.
* 2. How would these business groups empower members?
To be in business for yourself is empowering. It can also be very difficult, that is the reason for a collective approach with shared resources including labour.
* 3. How do we get free food for the free food cafes?
Ideally we grow plenty of food and deliver it to the free-food cafe(s) where the members (who helped grow the food) get to eat it, and if we grow enough we can also feed non-members. On top of this we can ask for free food from the public who throw away a lot of eatable food. When I ran a free-shop I got all my goods this way.
* 4. What entices people to meet there?
That something different and exciting is happening, at last, and they want to find out more and maybe be a part of it and benefit from it.
* 5. What's the purpose in having them meet there?
To discuss our collective plans over a snack or full meal before going off to put ideas into practice, in the knowledge that we are not alone.
* 6. How do the business groups get funded in phase one?
Essentially self funded. Some of us have some liquidity (cash and property etc) to input, and there are those who will lend money to good causes or invest in them to get a return.
* 7. Is phase two to build the circle city structures?
That's correct.
* 8. What's the role of the business groups in phase 1 & 2?
In phase one the business groups are to pull together local wealth and talent into a coherent body that functions to benefit the members and the public. The main business of phase two is to build more circle cities and the underground transport system that joins the circle cities to each other and to the old society (for mutual advantage).
* 9. What does circle city mean?
10. What are the circle city structures like?
Strictly speaking a circle city is an unconventional building for an unconventional purpose. It is a building that though only about two hundred feet wide is long enough to encircle the two thousand acres of cropland needed to feed the ten thousand occupants. That is to say, a little over six mile around the circumference of a two mile diameter circle of land. This protects the land from rats and rabbits and so on and also allows waste heat to be used to warm the soil in cooler countries, and waste water in drier countries so that we get maximum crops from minimum land.
* 11. What are the structures for?
For people to live their lives in and near. Inside a circle city will be like the best of our present buildings, like a continuous atrium with fruiting creepers growing up the trellis to keep off the harsh sun and make it seem like you are not in a building at all. And for those who like the outdoors they are right there outside within easy reach.
* 12. Are the circle cities the safe place for the rich?
13. What makes them safe?
The circle cities will be very safe for rich and poor alike. When you move into a circle city you agree to certain rules, such as no tobacco or drugs or drunkenness, and no violence, and no forcing yourself on others the way the paparazzi do or salesmen and scam artists.
* 14. What makes the rich believe we wish them harm?
They are vulnerable because of their wealth. It only takes one person or small group to kidnap a rich person or their child or even their whole family for ransom. That could happen in a circle city but it's far less likely.
* 15. What kind of harm do they suppose we wish them?
I'm sure you and I don't wish them harm. 99+% of people are okay, it's the less than one percent who succumb to greed and who probably had a violent upbringing that we all have to fear. Gated communities are proving very popular. This takes that concept further.
* 16. What were you saying is the result of money inequality?
Envy, for a start. It's only natural. Any poor person will envy the rich and want to be rich. Some of the poorest people on earth will be able to get work building circle cities or in industries serving the construction programme. Those that build them will also get to live in them as part of the deal.
* 17. How do the rich experience the rat race?
Maybe the idle rich don't, but most rich are hard working in the rat race, at the cutting edge of it and have to deal with life's vicissitudes.
* 18. How do the circle cities function without money?
If they work at all it will be through collective, voluntary co-operation. That is why phase one is so important, to develop that side of people before we build circle cities. And they are not so much living without money but living without money worries. Each circle city will trade with the outside world in a variety of ways, and goods will be bought for the members and be freely available to them.
* 19. Is the wealth-creating project the building of the circle city structures?
This will be the major wealth creation project along with retro-fitting existing structures to make them more eco-friendly and efficient.
* 20. Who pays the builders?
The circle city corporation does. And they get their money from a variety of sources including but not exclusively from those who wish to live there.
* 21. How does this plan achieve world peace & freedom?
Partly by removing poverty around the world. Of course, one circle city being built in one country can have little effect, that would be just a start. From that and the thousands of local phase one groups we will need to encourage the whole world to get involved so everyone can benefit. As the big engine phase two, circle cities, they will need to be built in increasing numbers. As the world gears itself up for this long boom and takes us all out of recession, away from boom and bust we will be able to really believe lasting peace and prosperity and justice are all possible. That'll be a first. At present there seems to be a perception that there simply isn't enough of everything to go around. The aim is to show this is not the case. There is enough for our needs, but not our greed. There is enough land on which to grow our food as well as trees for fuel after fossil fuels are gone. There's enough rain and sun and wind and waves and tides, if we harness them correctly not wastefully.
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Luck

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #140 on: May 26, 2009, 08:49:03 pm »

* Just replace the canals with interior parks and gardens, put the city walls along the outside, and have a maglev track along one wall or underground.
* Which NH town is best suited to a circle city perimeter?
* Where are some rich folks who'd like to help build a Libertarian circle city or town?

* By the way, Bob's in the UK, Swansea, Wales to be more precise.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2009, 08:58:14 pm by Luck »
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adirondeau

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #141 on: May 26, 2009, 09:36:59 pm »

Hello, I'm new to this site. I just recently found out about the free stat project and joined. I have been reading threads trying to get a feel for the thinking here. I have one question on the concept of circle cities. How does this fit in to Libertarian thinking? It seams as though you pay to be a member. food is grown and given to the members? I am not sure I completely understood the concept as the first thing that came to mind was socialism.
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lloydbob1

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #142 on: May 27, 2009, 06:01:07 am »

we might have jj luna hidden in grafton ... but how would anyone know

I saw him (her?) on the porch at the Grafton (don't trip over the dog) Mall!
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sj

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #143 on: May 27, 2009, 09:31:16 am »

Hello, I'm new to this site. I just recently found out about the free stat project and joined. I have been reading threads trying to get a feel for the thinking here. I have one question on the concept of circle cities. How does this fit in to Libertarian thinking? It seams as though you pay to be a member. food is grown and given to the members? I am not sure I completely understood the concept as the first thing that came to mind was socialism.

Welcome!

This is the first time I've ever seen "circle cities" brought up on the forums.  I think this is just one person throwing some ideas around.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #144 on: May 27, 2009, 03:20:06 pm »

that looks like a flatlander city ... it will have to a slightly different model in backwoods NH :)

jj luna is a guy who gets mail at my house
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Luck

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #145 on: May 27, 2009, 07:41:30 pm »

* The image of the Circle City above is actually something I found on the internet that's supposed to be the mythical island of Atlantis. I couldn't find much of anything better.
* Seth is right. Just throwing ideas around. Circle Cities is Bob's idea. He's a realtor or something in Wales in the UK. I started a peace group this winter and Bob suggested that his Circle City idea could promote world peace. You can put labels on the idea if you like, but I don't think money is an essential ingredient of Libertarianism. Money seems like a big hassle most of the time, although it gives people a sense of how much they contribute to society, if the money doesn't involve exchanges that hamper society.
* Some of Bob's ideas make a lot of sense, and I'd like to combine some of them with the recent LRC article about making a free town, off the grid, i.e. with private roads, private non-authoritarian police etc.
* I started discussing Bob's Circle Cities with a few other folks and we're thinking about using Second Life or something similar as a place to build a city virtually, before trying reality. We welcome anyone else who's technical or creative [and peace-loving].
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adirondeau

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #146 on: May 28, 2009, 04:36:54 pm »

I wasn't trying to be negative, just that was my first thought. I am not a fan of currency, but it is a useful tool instead of bartering. My biggest hesitation is I am very against free loading and believe that is one of the major downfalls in today's society. I am a "Leave me alone and I'll leave you alone" type person, although I am always willing to help a friend. Which brings me to another point. I am an electromechanical engineer, so the idea of the actual city and being self reliant is very appealing. You should check out

http://www.solarhouse.com/

The live in Maine, and use passive and active solar for heating and photovoltaics for electricity. Combine it with...

http://www.undergroundhomes.com/news1.html

Use some grey water systems and I think you're all set
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #147 on: May 28, 2009, 05:46:16 pm »

you could try your own version in nh with hills, walls, and moats .... cool bridges over creeks or buy an island on a lake or on the ocean and build your town
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

MTPorcupine3

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #148 on: May 28, 2009, 08:29:46 pm »

* Just replace the canals with interior parks and gardens, put the city walls along the outside, and have a maglev track along one wall or underground.
* Which NH town is best suited to a circle city perimeter?
* Where are some rich folks who'd like to help build a Libertarian circle city or town?

* By the way, Bob's in the UK, Swansea, Wales to be more precise.


How about one of the Smutty Shoals Islands? The moat part is covered.

D. Stewart

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #149 on: May 29, 2009, 09:10:26 am »

re. ownership by LLC...

The problem is that, unless you plan on eschewing such things as voting, registering a vehicle in your name (although you can use a LLC for this too), a postal address and/or deliveries, and a terrestrial phone line, it will rapidly become rather difficult to maintain the anonymity.

Each point there is relatively easy to fix ;)

Up to a point I agree with you.  However I can see no valid (and reasonably legal) way of fixing the voting thing, unless by maintaining a second (real) address in the same ward, which doesn't really serve to hide you, since you are identified as being in the same town as you really live, not on the other side of the state/country/world.
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