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Author Topic: Free Town Project (Floating Islands for Real)  (Read 70492 times)

freedomroad

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #120 on: May 05, 2009, 01:19:02 pm »

I heard they planned on making the waste into edible panties.  Is that what you're talking about?  I hope they make my size.
 :o



No.  They have a serious plan which sounded pretty good about shipping waste from the area into Seabrook to be processed and turned into money.  It seemed pretty likely that is would happen.  Taxes will likely go down if it happens.  Most of the government officials and folks who follow them closely should know a bit about it.  Feel free to ask about it.  From what I understand, it is already happening in some parts of the nation and works great.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #121 on: May 06, 2009, 04:15:16 am »

Whatever.  The sewage treatment system for Seabrook that was giving residents some odor problems has been dealt with.  It turned out that some parts of the reactor were not getting enough oxygen, and that problem has been solved.  The bottom line is that the town may now be able to process waste from other towns (at a profit), possibly even taking high premium greases and fats that are otherwise hard to get rid of.  It the whole system works, Seabrook will make money off of a system that this private company has built at their own risk.
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lloydbob1

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #122 on: May 06, 2009, 06:09:04 am »

#102. Doesn't always smell like shit!
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TEBON

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #123 on: May 09, 2009, 05:06:07 am »

so the private company built it, but Seabrook runs it?

I'm kinda leary about towns making money. . . because at some point the money stream will stop and then what will come of all the delicious programs that pop up in its place? 

I hope NO programs. . . and I'll join you in helping stop any outrageous spending "ideas"

The next town over, Salisbury, was going to have a waste disposal plant built in the woods on the Seabrook border.  The townspeople showed up in droves to oppose it even though it would have meant free trash pickup for all residents.  I guess people enjoy paying for their trash to be hauled away.  The company decided to drop their idea and move their business to another town. 

Seabrook recently has had a drinking water problem, the place I work has kept getting notices to not use the drinking water. . .heard anything?
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Mo250

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #124 on: May 09, 2009, 10:01:34 am »

if its a free trash pickup somebody else must be footing the bill.
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TEBON

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #125 on: May 09, 2009, 01:04:32 pm »

yes, the company.

They OPTED to sort of bribe the town to give its holy allowance to permit them to build a plant within the confines of the town.  The town turned that offer down.

In my opinion, it started as ostracism. . . many townspeople said that they didn't want a neighbor like that (even a few miles away) so the company tried to sway public opinion and offer a free trash pickup to squelch the ostracism.  It didn't work too well.
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Mo250

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #126 on: May 09, 2009, 02:39:42 pm »

disappointing to say the least.
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #127 on: May 12, 2009, 01:14:44 am »

PMC BioTec built a modern waste water treatment machine at the Seabrook waste water facility.  Because of the cold winter, the bacteria in the plant slowed down (some died off), and it takes a long time for them to get reestablished.  Because of the intermittent odor (partly marsh, partly the plant), the Selectmen are deciding whether to

I'm going to meet with the guy who operates the plant tomorrow--probably recommending to the Board that they privatize the whole plant (currently, it's just this one machine that's private), mainly to cut the town's liability.  It's true that the plant will probably start making money in a few months once they get the problems worked out, and when they can take other towns' waste products and high premium greases and fats, but the liability could be too much for the town.
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Mo250

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #128 on: May 12, 2009, 11:01:36 am »

they should definitely privatize it and .........on a totally different tangent are there any unique animal species in NH?. Like in NZ we have the kiwi.
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Luck

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #129 on: May 12, 2009, 01:53:56 pm »

* I got this data from the Census Bureau; it shows county populations and where there's most and least growth.
COUNTY NAME   Pop2000   Pop_08   Chg00 2001   2002   2003   2004   2005   2006   2007   2008   Rank NChg %Chg
Hillsboro County   380843   402042   1518   5703   2618   1959   3379   2173   1809   1058   _982   1   2   6
Rockingh County   277357   297350   1353   4670   3625   1886   1580   2406   2303   _862   1308   2   1   3
Merrimac County   136223   148161   _415   1959   2807   1799   1476   1528   1334   _532   __88   3   7   7
Strafford County   112234   121914   _446   1792   1507   1059   1148   _795   1515   _715   _703   4   3   2
Grafton_ County   _81742   _85921   __54   __91   _615   _737   _797   _635   _515   _145   _590   5   4   1
Cheshire County   _73825   _77170   _163   _396   _631   _991   _539   _281   _434   __44   -134   6   9   9
Belknap_ County   _56325   _61281   _257   1262   1140   _976   _800   _215   _-13   _103   _216   7   5   4
Carroll__ County   _43666   _47408   _243   _312   _890   _613   _816   _145   _401   _163   _159   8   6   5
Sullivan_ County   _40458   _42591   __95   _313   _322   _541   _344   _238   _211   __54   __15   9   8   8
Coos___ County   _33112   _31971   __32   _-234   _-79   __-2   _-75   __50   _-215   _-244   -374 10 10 10
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TEBON

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #130 on: May 20, 2009, 04:58:48 am »

PMC BioTec built a modern waste water treatment machine at the Seabrook waste water facility.  Because of the cold winter, the bacteria in the plant slowed down (some died off), and it takes a long time for them to get reestablished.  Because of the intermittent odor (partly marsh, partly the plant), the Selectmen are deciding whether to

I'm going to meet with the guy who operates the plant tomorrow--probably recommending to the Board that they privatize the whole plant (currently, it's just this one machine that's private), mainly to cut the town's liability.  It's true that the plant will probably start making money in a few months once they get the problems worked out, and when they can take other towns' waste products and high premium greases and fats, but the liability could be too much for the town.

that's awesome Maxx!  That would be great if they would do that. :)
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Luck

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #131 on: May 24, 2009, 09:33:36 am »

* I'm a few weeks late noticing this at MerrimackValleyPorcupines forum, but maybe the plan to thwart Free Staters below can provide inspiration for something. One of the forum members said, "It's really starting to sound like "trouble in River City," or the petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide". I concur.

Dear Town Officials:
 
As you may know, Free Staters have now moved into at least 17 towns in New Hampshire, yours being one of them. Only now is their extremist agenda receiving the scrutiny it deserves.
The following is a draft plan I have developed for the town I live in, Westmoreland. I felt I should share it with other towns as well.
 
Sincerely,
 
Russ Martens
 
A 10-Step Plan to Defeat the Agenda of the Free Staters
 
The agenda of the Free Staters is not to bring more liberty, more freedom and smaller government to New Hampshire. Those are simply the talking points to mask the real agenda: to eliminate all tax-funded social programs (public education, Social Security, Medicare, etc.) and let the “free market” run unfettered by eliminating zoning and planning ordinances, building inspectors and safety and environmental laws.
The true agenda is carefully mapped out in the words of the founder of the Free State Project, Jason Sorens, whose research is funded by a front group for large corporations, the Mercatus Center:
“Once we've taken over the state government, we can slash state and local budgets, which make up a sizeable proportion of the tax and regulatory burden we face every day. Furthermore, we can eliminate substantial federal interference by refusing to take highway funds and the strings attached to them. Once we've accomplished these things, we can bargain with the national government over reducing the role of the national government in our state. We can use the threat of secession as leverage to do this.” [1]
“The Free State Project is related to market-preserving federalism in two different ways. First, New Hampshire is poised to benefit if the United States returns to a true model of market-preserving federalism. One example is Social Security. New Hampshire could do much better if it were taking care of its own Social Security program because its residents pay much more in Social Security taxes than they receive back in benefits…The Free State Project can also contribute to market-preserving federalism and its beneficial workings in another way. Once New Hampshire moves dramatically in a free market direction, we are going to continue to attract individuals and businesses from other states. And other states are going to have to reform their own laws in order to avoid losing their tax base to our state.” [2]
After the Free Staters have taken over, Mr. Sorens expounds on how he would control who moves to the state in the future: “I am open to the suggestion that immigration laws against non-libertarians are justifiable in a libertarian society that still has a majority-rules government. The reason is that non-libertarians would immediately begin violating people's rights by voting for government programs. Keeping them from establishing residence would be a kind of self-defense. Third, and perhaps the most viable solution, we can implement tight and explicit constitutional rules that prevent majorities from bringing back bad laws.” [3]
With the true agenda in mind and with a comprehensive understanding of the tactics used by the Free Staters against Grafton and other towns, below is the draft document for resident input and discussion for defeating the Free Staters’ agenda here in Westmoreland. It is simultaneously being submitted as a working draft to town officials throughout New Hampshire. (Each town, of course, should submit it for resident input and legal review by their own Town Attorney.)
 
Step 1: Free Staters are relying on voter apathy and a low voter turnout in our Town. We commit to personally calling ten of our neighbors and getting their commitment to vote in each election.
Step 2: Free Staters frequently keep their agenda and association with the Free State Project hidden. Town residents will henceforth sponsor a “Meet the Candidates” event for all local and state elections. The event will be tape recorded and transcribed. Each candidate’s answers on where they stand on public education, planning and zoning laws, and tax-supported social welfare programs will be released to the press prior to the election.
 
Step 3: Free Staters frequently place themselves in nomination for local positions where they can run unopposed. It now behooves every town resident who has the time to run and fulfill the duties for a local office to do so.
 
Step 4: Free State discussion forums and chat rooms indicate that non residents have shown up for Town Meetings. Because voice vote occurs on many warrant articles, we now need to credential voters BEFORE they gain access to the room where voting occurs. Non residents with a legitimate basis for being present, e.g., the press or town attorney, will sit in a specially designated section apart from voters.
 
Step 5: Under RSA 654:1 a person entitled to vote in New Hampshire must meet the following test: “An inhabitant's domicile for voting purposes is that one place where a person, more than any other place, has established a physical presence and manifests an intent to maintain a single continuous presence for domestic, social, and civil purposes relevant to participating in democratic self-government.” [Emphasis added.] This requirement is not being met in some instances by Free Staters and their supporters who are, nonetheless, voting. This requires the establishment of a non-partisan community taskforce to review the Voter Checklist and report any illegalities that have taken place.
 
Step 6: To send a bold message to those who might be tempted to engage in voter fraud in the future, long-term community residents will be needed as Poll Watchers for each and every election.
 
Step 7: Since the Planning and Zoning Boards are the early targets of the Free Staters, residents need to keep a watchful eye on our land use commissions. We ask every resident to attend at least one of the following meetings per month:
Conservation Commission (first Tuesday of the month, Town Hall, 7:00 PM);
Planning Commission (second Tuesday of the month, Town Hall, 7:30 PM);
Zoning Board (fourth Wednesday of the month, only meets if there is a request for a Variance or Special Exception, Town Hall, 7:30 PM; a legal notice appears in the Keene Sentinel if the Zoning Board plans to meet);
Selectmen’s Meeting (first and third Thursday of each month, Town Hall, 7:00 PM)
Step 8: The Selectmen must provide the residents of the Town with a set of minutes that comply with RSA 91-A (“Right-to-Know” law). For example, future minutes must henceforth specifically state the exemption under which the Selectmen are calling for a nonpublic session. Overall, minutes must contain enough detail to sufficiently capture the essence of the discussions. Going forward, Town residents must demand and receive greater transparency in the running of the Town.
RSA 91-A:3 “…Any motion to enter nonpublic session shall state on its face the specific exemption under paragraph II which is relied upon as foundation for the nonpublic session. The vote on any such motion shall be by roll call, and shall require the affirmative vote of the majority of members present.”
How does this relate to Free Staters? A Free Stater attempted to sue and potentially intimidate an elected official of Westmoreland. We, the voters and taxpayers, were left in the dark on this issue.
 
Step 9: Standard tactics used by Free Staters to silence their opponents are the following: call their opponents any one of the following names: commies, lunatics, cowards, socialists, character assassins, perpetrators of a smear campaign. In other words, in their mind, it’s okay for extremists to masquerade as mainstream residents while attempting to take over government, but if you expose them, you’re the lunatic. In Grafton, this web site was established to intimidate local residents: http://fnhp.com/thelist/ Anyone who is subjected to retaliation by the Free Staters should promptly document the details in writing and send the report via email to this email address along with your name and address. I, along with individuals in other towns, will be making filings as necessary with the New Hampshire State Attorney General’s office.
 
Step 10: Free Staters in Grafton, New Hampshire have been buying up property under the names of Limited Liability Companies (LLCs), making it impossible to determine the true beneficial owner. We propose a public hearing on the question of a new ordinance to immediately require all property buyers in our Town to disclose the true owner of the property if different from the name(s) on the business entity buying the property.
 
[1] Taking Over State Government
http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Government&Politics/+Doc-Government&Politics-Tracking&AvoidingTyranny/LibertarianStateTakeover.htm
 
[2] Sorens Speaking at American Enterprise Institute Event
 http://www.aei.org/events/filter.all,eventID.754/transcript.asp
 
[3] No Liberty for the Majority
http://web.archive.org/web/20010821004338/www.webleyweb.com/tle/libe133-20010806-02.html
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Alex Free Market

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #132 on: May 24, 2009, 03:33:37 pm »


Step 10: Free Staters in Grafton, New Hampshire have been buying up property under the names of Limited Liability Companies (LLCs), making it impossible to determine the true beneficial owner.

We propose a public hearing on the question of a new ordinance to immediately require all property buyers in our Town to disclose the true owner of the property if different from the name(s) on the business entity buying the property.


This is actually something I have been wanting to do for privacy reasons, but I don't really know much about these things.

If I bought a property under the name of a Limited Liability Corporation, couldn't they just do another search of records to see who's names are filed as the owners of the LLC?   I thought business filing records were public information, also?

I read something about how New Mexico allows people to file LLC's with no names attached.... but I don't see how that's possible... How could government let you file to open a corporation, without them knowing who you are?  The government always seems to want to know who you are. 

In any case, that seems like a rather big hassle.... having to set up a shell LLC out of New Mexico.. just to gain a bit of privacy, assuming this is how some of the Grafton guys are doing it.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 06:17:24 pm by Alex Free Market »
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It will be of little avail to the people, that the laws are made by men of their own choice, if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood; if they be repealed or revised before they are promulgated, or undergo such incessant changes that no man, who knows what the law is to-day, can guess what it will be to-morrow. - James Madison, The Federalist No. 62

rossby

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #133 on: May 24, 2009, 04:42:58 pm »

If I bought a property under the name of a Limited Liability Corporation, couldn't they just get rather easily just do another search of records, and see who's names are filed as the owners of the LLC?   I thought business filing records were public information, also?

The owner of an LLC isn't necessarily the same person who formed it. And it doesn't have to be a human being either. Depending on how complex the planning was, it can be nearly impossible to know who is actually running a LLC. Particularly if a state doesn't require a filing for a Change in Beneficial Ownership or an Annual Report--or whatever. In day-to-day activities, state often don't care who is running an LLC: they just want the initial filing fee and any annual fees and taxes. Other than that, they don't seem to particularly care what you use your LLC for... unless you're breaking some law of course...
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 04:46:52 pm by B.D. Ross »
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D. Stewart

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Re: Free Town Project
« Reply #134 on: May 24, 2009, 07:08:54 pm »

re. ownership by LLC...

The problem is that, unless you plan on eschewing such things as voting, registering a vehicle in your name (although you can use a LLC for this too), a postal address and/or deliveries, and a terrestrial phone line, it will rapidly become rather difficult to maintain the anonymity.  Most of us wish to do one or more of the above, so the potential benefits rapidly become diluted and, in conjunction with one other consideration, I decided it was way more hassle than it was worth.  The other consideration being that NH treats individuals very differently than businesses in a number of regards, taxation being one, and I couldn't get a clear picture of what the various impacts might be to structuring a deed this way.  I wondered, at the time that I was contemplating this, whether agricultural income and capital gains might then be considered business profits (for state purposes), even though for feds you may pass-through and file individually.  If homestead rules ever get set in place, that again might prompt different treatment.

Just a few thoughts for you to consider before treading this path...
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