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Author Topic: Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question  (Read 5966 times)

michaelr

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Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« on: August 08, 2002, 12:04:32 pm »

Hi,

I think that taking over a nother state is a great idea. But I want to know if there will be some sort of support mechanism for people like me who will need a job. I have a job now that pays very well. Just what kinds of technology/IT jobs are there in New Hampshire? In other words for persons who think this is a great idea but are not producers of a goods ( like farmers, woodworkers, auto mechanics, etc are producers of tangible products or services) it could be very difficult for them to find adequate jobs to support their lifestyles. How can this challenge be overcome?

-Mike
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Reaper

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2002, 12:13:50 pm »

I'd expect IT would thrive eventually.  However, during the transition period when we first all move to the selected state there will be some hard times.

It's a question of how much liberty is worth to you.  You may have to give up a comfortable lifestyle, learn a new trade, or put up with any number of other inconveniences and discomforts at least temporarily.

For me it's worth it.  If I have to become a farmer, laborer, assembly line worker, ditch digger, whatever, I'll do it if it's the cost of freedom.
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wayimp

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2002, 12:40:29 pm »

I work in IT as well, and my career goal is not to have the highest salary that I can get, but to set up an independent programming business that I can run from anywhere in the world that has a good connection. If you have talent, you can innovate, wherever you are. I can dig ditches too if need be.
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michaelr

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2002, 01:14:13 pm »

Well it's not that I want to necessarily keep my current lifestyle or make the most money. What I want is to be self sufficient, have my own land with good soil to grow my own food, have some livestock, solar power, wind power, water well, and some elk, deer or other game to shoot when I get hungry. I don't want to have a day job at all. I am pretty well fed up with the internet, technology, and the rat race. (I'm a webmaster/programmer/network administrator by the way). Oh, and did I mention fish. there should be a good fishing hole near by too.

So that's what I want. will I get it? Probably not because the current system makes land too expensive (even at my rate of pay), the government rapes me for taxes, and the police state is being implemented all around us, and I am dependent on a job and vocation I can't stand anymore.

???
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2002, 02:26:54 pm »

Actually, several of the states were considering do have substantial IT sectors: Idaho, New Hampshire, and Delaware especially from all I've read.  That said, some of us may have to make some career changes when the move comes.  I think we should really take job prospects into account when we vote.
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Dex Sinister

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2002, 02:27:36 pm »

The transition period, as you point out, is the difficult one.

Once some libertarian reforms actually start to take place, I wouldn't think that this would be much of a problem, as the state should very quickly wind up as the most pro-business state in the country, and should attract companies and jobs like a superconducting magnet, but there will obviously be some sort of time lag.

Maybe the tech types will have to band together and establish a very modern distance tech facility for remote admin functions?

Of course, a voluntary mutual assurance company would be a libertarian idea, too.

Dex }:>=-
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michaelr

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2002, 04:28:39 pm »

Here's s'more questions:

Will everyone move to the same community/city? or will everyone be spread out over the state?

How much coordination/association will there be between members? it would seem to me there would have to be some level of this to acheive the political goals.

Will there be political campaigns to get members into the local city/state positions? Like Mayor. Controller, Governor, Att. General, etc.

It seems to me that the 20,000 would have to be more than just activists and voters. They will have to "take charge" if you want to achieve the goal of true constitutional liberty for the individual. And the political structure now-a-days is not conducive to individual liberty but more along the lines of policestate-ism. To effect the change it would need to be done from the inside and that means the inside of the behemoth that is government. The 20,000 would have to "take" positions in the state, county and local governments to make it work. Because voting & activism by themselves just don't do much of anything anymore (expect become cottage industries for vultures and patriots-for-profit).

Just my thoughts. I have been a part of the patriot movement for many years. I think this is a good idea. But I am not sure that there is a strong enough plan to carry it out.
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2002, 06:02:59 pm »

We won't all move to the same city or county; what we will likely do is to try to spread out over about half of the legislative districts.  Ultimately, however, where you live is decided by where you can find property you like at a reasonable price and where you get a job.  We certainly won't all be just voters & activists; many of us will be running for office eventually.  However, we'll have to get "acclimated" to the state's politics first and make names for ourselves.  Probably what we'll do right away is to create a political pressure group including all 20,000 Free Staters in order to keep our momentum.  Then individual members will pursue their own party political strategies for the time being.  Eventually we will decide whether we need to break off from the established parties and form our own party.
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Bill

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2002, 07:40:33 pm »


Eventually we will decide whether we need to break off from the established parties and form our own party.


I would hope that the Libertarian Party banner and national support from like minded folks in the LP would work for most. And all of the short list states have established and active Libertarian Party affilliates already. Perhaps once the vote is approved, some strategic coordination with the LP locals in the winning state would be constructive!?
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JasonPSorens

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2002, 08:14:29 pm »

Most of us will probably be active in the Libertarian Party at first.  Some have suggested that we could merge the Libertarians with other groups to form a new autonomist party specifically oriented toward our state's concerns.  Others have suggested that we eventually lead a libertarian takeover of the Republicans.  I think any of these could work, so long as we have the numbers.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Mega Joule

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2002, 09:43:00 pm »

Quote
Quote from: Dex Sinister

The transition period, as you point out, is the difficult one.

Once some libertarian reforms actually start to take place, I wouldn't think that this would be much of a problem, as the state should very quickly wind up as the most pro-business state in the country, and should attract companies and jobs like a superconducting magnet, but there will obviously be some sort of time lag.

Dex }:>=-


Keep in mind that once we hit 20,000 we will begin to move, a process that will cover a five-year period and will presumably involve increasing membership in the intervening years.  As some begin to move they will get jobs or start businesses.  The more of us that move into the state the more business we bring with us.  Remember we will not just be 20,000 folks looking for jobs.  We will be 20,000 consumers in a free market economy and that means more jobs for everyone.

Meg
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Bill

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2002, 09:43:12 pm »


I suspect the biggest hurdle here relating to numbers is the small problem that, most who would identify as Libertarian, or similar, aren't big in the 'joining' category. Most being rather individualistic, as someone else mentioned elsewhere, its kinda like herding cats.
"Never appeal to a man's 'better nature'. He may not have one. Invoking his self-interest gives you more leverage."

You hit the nail on the head! I don't believe anyone involved in this project is trying to create a new state order. I believe that each is involved for strictly personal reasons. As a big "L", I can tell you that I don't particularly enjoy all of the activism activities that are necessary to make an impact, but I realize that if I don't do it, I'll NEVER get what I want. I'm paying the piper buddy!!
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Elizabeth

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2002, 10:55:39 pm »


I would hope that the Libertarian Party banner and national support from like minded folks in the LP would work for most. And all of the short list states have established and active Libertarian Party affilliates already. Perhaps once the vote is approved, some strategic coordination with the LP locals in the winning state would be constructive!?


The Libertarian party is a laughingstock to most of the country, including many self-identified libertarians.  My personal opinion (and one that was articulated pretty early on in the project) is that we will be better served by a state party (e.g., the Montana State Party) which addresses issues specific to our state and incorporates the state-loyalty already extant.

We are starting something new here, and we are not an offshoot of the LP not should we constrain ourselves by pretending to be so.
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Matthew

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2002, 11:03:42 pm »

(this is not sarcasm) What is wrong with the LP, I've heard many nad things about it from libertarians and Libertarians but know one really mentions what is wrong with it.  I have little knowledge of the party, except for the basis of their politics.  Can anyone please inform me?  Thanks.
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Dex Sinister

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Re:Support Mechanism - Prospective Member Question
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2002, 03:12:16 am »


(this is not sarcasm) What is wrong with the LP, I've heard many nad things about it from libertarians and Libertarians but know one really mentions what is wrong with it.  I have little knowledge of the party, except for the basis of their politics.  Can anyone please inform me?  


Strategically, it is incapable of even the slightest bit of coalition-building, a quality which is necessary to achieve any sort of political success.

Contrast it with the Green party, which has no firm ideological base, but will accept anyone or group that wants warm fuzzy semi-socialist stuff, and is going in the same general direction, and it’s easy to see why the Green party is relatively huge, while the LP flounders about.

Dex }:>=-
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