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Author Topic: Honesty about property taxes in NH  (Read 13926 times)

Gary T

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2009, 08:31:51 am »

* Taxes are authoritarian. Libertarians claim to be non-authoritarian. Therefore, Libertarians should oppose all taxes.


A cow is an animal.

A cat is an animal.

Therefore all cats are cows.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2009, 09:05:17 am »

* Taxes are authoritarian. Libertarians claim to be non-authoritarian. Therefore, Libertarians should oppose all taxes.


A cow is an animal.

A cat is an animal.

Therefore all cats are cows.

His reasoning isn't fallacious, although not watertight. Tightened up, the syllogism might look like this:

1. All taxes are authoritarian.
2. No true libertarian supports anything authoritarian.
Therefore, no true libertarian supports taxes.

The argument is valid, but is it sound? I question the major premiss, at least if "tax" also refers to fees charged by consensually organized governments.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2009, 09:07:08 am by JasonPSorens »
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Dreepa

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2009, 09:16:47 am »

* Taxes are authoritarian. Libertarians claim to be non-authoritarian. Therefore, Libertarians should oppose all taxes.


A cow is an animal.

A cat is an animal.

Therefore all cats are cows.

His reasoning isn't fallacious, although not watertight. Tightened up, the syllogism might look like this:

1. All taxes are authoritarian.
2. No true libertarian supports anything authoritarian.
Therefore, no true libertarian supports taxes.

The argument is valid, but is it sound? I question the major premiss, at least if "tax" also refers to fees charged by consensually organized governments.

so then I ask this.

The town budget is $1M
You work with others and reduce the town budget to $900,000.  (10% reduction)... you support this new budget.

You are 'supporting' taxes but they are 10% lower.....

Some 'libertarians' say you are 'supporting' taxes therefore you are a statist.
Some 'libertarians' say you did a great job getting it down 10%... keep going next year.

Who is right?

Libertarians will never be happy with other Libertarians. 
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2009, 09:42:09 am »

* Taxes are authoritarian. Libertarians claim to be non-authoritarian. Therefore, Libertarians should oppose all taxes.


A cow is an animal.

A cat is an animal.

Therefore all cats are cows.

His reasoning isn't fallacious, although not watertight. Tightened up, the syllogism might look like this:

1. All taxes are authoritarian.
2. No true libertarian supports anything authoritarian.
Therefore, no true libertarian supports taxes.

The argument is valid, but is it sound? I question the major premiss, at least if "tax" also refers to fees charged by consensually organized governments.

so then I ask this.

The town budget is $1M
You work with others and reduce the town budget to $900,000.  (10% reduction)... you support this new budget.

You are 'supporting' taxes but they are 10% lower.....

Some 'libertarians' say you are 'supporting' taxes therefore you are a statist.
Some 'libertarians' say you did a great job getting it down 10%... keep going next year.

Who is right?

Libertarians will never be happy with other Libertarians. 

Local governments are only "sorta" consensual, so I favor keeping them as lean and trim as possible. Don't see how anyone with a lick of sense could see activism that obtains a tax cut as "supporting taxes."
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

WendellBerry

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #49 on: December 17, 2009, 11:32:43 am »

* Taxes are authoritarian. Libertarians claim to be non-authoritarian. Therefore, Libertarians should oppose all taxes.


A cow is an animal.

A cat is an animal.

Therefore all cats are cows.

His reasoning isn't fallacious, although not watertight. Tightened up, the syllogism might look like this:

1. All taxes are authoritarian.
2. No true libertarian supports anything authoritarian.
Therefore, no true libertarian supports taxes.

The argument is valid, but is it sound? I question the major premiss, at least if "tax" also refers to fees charged by consensually organized governments.

Locational taxes can be looked at as fees for the value that the community creates (the proximity to the lanbor and services of others, public infrastructure, natural landforms, etc) for the location you occupy.

Of course they are only consensual like you have a choice in occupying a location or not.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #50 on: December 17, 2009, 03:36:18 pm »

That is pretty much what our property taxes in NH are.
The only one that is truly not is the Statewide Property Tax... but that is currently not transferred to an outside community.
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Dreepa

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #51 on: December 17, 2009, 03:37:50 pm »



Local governments are only "sorta" consensual, so I favor keeping them as lean and trim as possible. Don't see how anyone with a lick of sense could see activism that obtains a tax cut as "supporting taxes."
Come on... you have been on these forums...  ;)
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rabbit20

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #52 on: December 17, 2009, 03:47:25 pm »

While people in CA tend not to have high property taxes, there are a ton of minor taxes and the income and sales taxes can get over 10% in some areas.

I can vouch for that one! I live in Los Angels County and the taxes taken out of my check (before i got laid off) was about 28%  then there was the o so nice 10% sales tax! I don't have a home so I don't know what the property tax is but I know my parents pay a shit load! When I was on unemployment they wanted me to hold 15% for taxes so that I wouldn't have to pay them later.
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KhanIndustries

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2009, 12:46:33 am »

I was looking at some of the real estate sites that deal in homes for sale in NH. I'm not sure where you come from but compared to where I come from (New Jersey), NH is much, much cheaper in terms of property taxes. To give you an example, I have a regular house, nothing special and I looked at houses of the same type on NH Realty Sites.. and in my community of a very small town (employing 15 police officers, 3 detectives and a cheif for god sakes).. but anyway my yearly property taxes are just a tad over $6500/yr. We also have sales and state income tax on top of that. Finally, on to top it off... we have toll roads almost EVERYWHERE.

I can't speak for other states though so you may have a different view depending on where you come from.
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Bazil

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2010, 04:37:41 pm »

I was looking at some of the real estate sites that deal in homes for sale in NH. I'm not sure where you come from but compared to where I come from (New Jersey), NH is much, much cheaper in terms of property taxes. To give you an example, I have a regular house, nothing special and I looked at houses of the same type on NH Realty Sites.. and in my community of a very small town (employing 15 police officers, 3 detectives and a cheif for god sakes).. but anyway my yearly property taxes are just a tad over $6500/yr. We also have sales and state income tax on top of that. Finally, on to top it off... we have toll roads almost EVERYWHERE.

I can't speak for other states though so you may have a different view depending on where you come from.

I think NH has the third highest property taxes, with CT beating it out slightly, and NJ being, by far, the worst.  If you like to keep your money NJ is a bad state to live in.
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freedomroad

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2010, 05:18:28 pm »

I think NH has the third highest property taxes, with CT beating it out slightly, and NJ being, by far, the worst.  If you like to keep your money NJ is a bad state to live in.

It depends how you look at it.  If you go by average amount paid, the Northeast and especially VT, ME, NH, MA, NY, CT, RI and NJ tend to have some of the highest property taxes in the nation.  CA and OR are about there too.  Among those states, it various from town to town.  Heck, in NH alone if various from around $3000 to $7000 for average amount paid per town.  And that is just averages.  Some people in town X may pay $2000 a year while other people in that same town may pay $7000 a year.  By average amount paid, selected towns in most large metro areas have high property taxes. 

If you go by rates, that various quite a bit too.  There are differences from state to state and town to town.  NJ, NY and NH tend to have the worst rates, from what I've seen.  Some people in southern CT may pay a lot more property tax than what is typical of NH but there are a lot of people living in very pricey houses in southern CT.

City-data.com, even with much of the info out of date, is by far the best site I've found to look up this type of information.

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