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Author Topic: Honesty about property taxes in NH  (Read 13887 times)

Brettp76

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 04:13:56 pm »

I take the view that with property taxes at least you have some flexibility - you know where the rates are highest and obviously you don't have to buy a $500K house. Additionally, the bulk of NH property taxes are collected and spent at the city and county level. People feel much more empowered to call their local rep and/or get involved when politics is local rather than at the State and certainly the Federal level.

NH taxes are low for most people but for those that don't take advantage of the income tax and must, for whatever reason, own a larger home and/or land, NH can be taxing. Generally speaking, however, taxes should be much more of a reason to move to NH rather than to avoid it.

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"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." Ayn Rand

Luck

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 04:34:30 pm »

* Taxes are authoritarian. Libertarians claim to be non-authoritarian. Therefore, Libertarians should oppose all taxes.
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lloydbob1

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 06:28:11 pm »

Recently, I've been to a school district deliberative session and another for the town. The one for the school district was packed with teachers, their relatives and sycophants. They wanted an extra 200,000 for the bonuses that teachers get as they take courses to keep up with the latest methods for indoctrinating children. It was actually argued that 'These Economic times are hard on teachers, ya know!"
As the economy worsens, people loose jobs, foreclosures ensue, (perhaps even tax foreclosures) these deliberative sessions will change.  If they come back year after year with these increases people will be talking Tar and Feathers. Taxes will have to drop.  Town governments will just have to deal with it. Their employees will have to work for less or loose their jobs.  Citizens will go without some services.
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 06:54:24 pm »

* Taxes are authoritarian. Libertarians claim to be non-authoritarian. Therefore, Libertarians should oppose all taxes.

+1
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Brettp76

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 08:26:38 pm »

Not to say that I support property taxes. In fact, I don't see how you can call your house or land your property if you're required to make payments (taxes) on it..payments that can go up drastically against your will.
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"My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." Ayn Rand

Porcupine The Godful Heathen

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2009, 09:03:14 pm »

In fact, I don't see how you can call your house or land your property if you're required to make payments (taxes) on it..payments that can go up drastically against your will.

Exactly.
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"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as judge in the field of truth and knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods." - Einstein

WendellBerry

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2009, 10:44:22 pm »

Not to say that I support property taxes. In fact, I don't see how you can call your house or land your property if you're required to make payments (taxes) on it..payments that can go up drastically against your will.

Property right to locations are actually a bundle of rights - any of which can be alienated.
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MaineShark

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2009, 10:55:37 am »

Property taxes in NH are too high.  Of course, if property taxes required the payment of one second's labor per year, I would still say that they are too high...

Not to say that I support property taxes. In fact, I don't see how you can call your house or land your property if you're required to make payments (taxes) on it..payments that can go up drastically against your will.
Property right to locations are actually a bundle of rights - any of which can be alienated.

Rights can only be infringed, not alienated.  All rights are actually self-ownership, and any appearance of multiple rights is merely a convenient image.  Violating any right violates the self-ownership of the one who holds that right.

Joe
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WendellBerry

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2009, 12:06:55 pm »

Quote
Rights can only be infringed, not alienated.

They can be voluntarily alienated.
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MaineShark

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2009, 12:47:25 pm »

Quote
Rights can only be infringed, not alienated.
They can be voluntarily alienated.

No.  Something is "alienated" from you by someone else's act, not your own voluntary act.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

WendellBerry

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2009, 12:54:00 pm »

Quote
Rights can only be infringed, not alienated.
They can be voluntarily alienated.

No.  Something is "alienated" from you by someone else's act, not your own voluntary act.

I believe it just means something can be separated - the word itself contains no judgement on whether or not the person wants it to be or not.
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MaineShark

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2009, 01:01:49 pm »

I believe it just means something can be separated - the word itself contains no judgement on whether or not the person wants it to be or not.

There's a reason that "inalienable" and "inseparable" are both present within the language...  They don't mean the same thing.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

citizen_142002

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2009, 01:10:12 pm »

I think you can make a case that taxing corporations is not and initiation of force. Corporations are legal fictions created by government. Government is their creator and does have a legitimate ability to claim a portion of the income generated by a corporation as its own. That of course assumes that you are OK with the state creating a legal entity with limited liability.

The case can also be made that if you had a government that was limited to the defense of life, liberty, and property you could require payment of taxes/military service in exchange for the franchise. in other words you could freely choose to not pay taxes or serve the state, but you would not be able to vote, hold office, or be appointed to a government post.

Those are a couple of systems that essentially make taxation voluntary. Of course there are downsides to both of those examples, and the market anarchists here will argue that as long as their is a monopolistic government and not competition you'll have an imperfect system. I'm not a believer that you'll ever have a perfect system, and I think that being very free is still an improvement over serfdom even if you're not completely free.
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WendellBerry

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2009, 01:11:37 pm »

I believe it just means something can be separated - the word itself contains no judgement on whether or not the person wants it to be or not.

There's a reason that "inalienable" and "inseparable" are both present within the language...  They don't mean the same thing.


"incapable of being alienated, surrendered, or transferred"
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WendellBerry

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Re: Honesty about property taxes in NH
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2009, 01:20:47 pm »


Those are a couple of systems that essentially make taxation voluntary. Of course there are downsides to both of those examples, and the market anarchists here will argue that as long as their is a monopolistic government and not competition you'll have an imperfect system. I'm not a believer that you'll ever have a perfect system, and I think that being very free is still an improvement over serfdom even if you're not completely free.

Maybe the best we can hope for regarding individual freedom is a system in which no one is subject to arbitrary force which is the reason that we left a state of nature (where force is arbitrary - might makes right) to form a civic society.

It then becomes a debate between classical liberalism's ideal of free will to contract vs. civic republican's ideal of achieving freedom by practicing virtuous behavior within small-scale, deliberative, civic bodies.

Anarchists fall within classical liberalism's definition.
Minarchists fall within civic republican's definition.

You should also be aware though that civic republicans had an egalitarian view of productive property so that citizens entered the deliberations as equals.
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