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Author Topic: NPR documentary on FSP this weekend  (Read 14880 times)

RidleyReport

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2003, 07:20:55 pm »

Pastor wrote:

<<What if all of the states were labaratories for different approaches to governing and democracy>>

Pastor:  

You hit the nail on the head, and welcome!

You've just articulated the main reason why non-libertarians should feel supportive of this project.  It goes back to the original intent of the Founders, that states should be laboratories of democracy.  If we can do it, so can others with different ideologies, in different places.   Policies that succeed will spread to the other states; those that fail will probably not.  

I probably don't agree with most of what you believe, but I do hope someone forms a Green State Project as you suggest.  It will give us a chance to see in practice which environmentalist ideas work and which don't.  And if you prove me wrong or I prove you wrong, we all benefit from the knowledge.

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RidleyReport

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #46 on: April 25, 2003, 08:28:50 pm »

Becare of National Review Jason, they despise Libertarians.  If they print your interview be sure to get final approval of what they use.  

NR was the first entity to ever point me toward libertarianism.  William F. Buckley advocated drug legalization there back in '86 in a great article that got me started.  Before that I never even had any sympathy for libertarianism.  After it...everything changed.
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Zxcv

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #47 on: April 25, 2003, 11:51:05 pm »

Quote
I mentioned a lot of possibilities for the park, but the subtlety of my position got chopped by the editors.   I just knew they were going to include that bit in the final product.  They followed me around for hours, and at times I got a little jocular, poking fun at the obscurities of some libertarian positions.  Privatizing the city park came up in that context.  But I've certainly learned my lesson, and from now on I will not mention anything in an interview that could be used in any way to paint us as extreme, even ironic & self-deprecating comments.

I'm hardly the public speaker, but a tactic occurs to me on this.

When the press starts dinging you about the typical libertarian wet-dreams like privatizing parks and roads, just come back something like this: "Look, in this country we can hardly take an airplane trip without worrying about getting a body-cavity search. When I pull cash from my bank account the government hears about it. We've got over 2,000,000 people in jail, most for victimless crimes. The schools are falling apart, kids are graduating illiterate, yet they keep sucking in ever more tax dollars. Governments everywhere are confiscating property on the mere suspicion of a crime, and any drug addict under questioning who randomly fingers your house address can cause you to get your door kicked in at 3AM and a gun put to your head.

Now, did you have some kind of question about privatizing parks?"
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SandyPrice

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #48 on: April 26, 2003, 06:12:54 am »

I moved to Sun City Arizona last July and have been amazed how well our parks, golf courses and recreation facilities are handled.  It's like a big club more than a federal list of laws.  

After paying a fee to live in the area we are charged fees for the use of the swimming pools and golf courses.  I think I paid $2 for a pool card but it opens up all 6 swimming pools for my use.  I can bring guests under my card and we all have complete use of the parks.  I'm not certain what my yearly fees are for living here but they aren't that much.    What they pay for are the maintenance crews that keep this place in perfect condition.  

It's like belonging to a private club that is clean and pristine all year long.  We have a Board of Directors that we elect if we are interested enough and our property taxes are lower than anyplace I have ever lived.

Let's say we move to a community that has a public park.  I see no problem keeping it public as long as the residents don't destroy the purpose of the park.

I fear the Federal intrusion into any of our parks or schools.  Locally run facilities and school curriculums should be our end game.  
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Zxcv

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2003, 04:32:46 am »

Well, school curricula are not a fit item for any government, no matter how local.

But we do need to have working examples of things like parks and pools to sell our ideas when we are trying to influence things in the chosen state.
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admin

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2003, 12:43:53 pm »

Regarding, say, a city park, there is really no high and mighty principle involved here.  I don't think you can say "there shouldn't be public parks".  If you don't want to live in a city with a public park, then either don't move there, or start going to city council meetings and try to get rid of it.

Why would you do this?  You should try to get rid of it if you don't want a park, or if you think a private park would be run more efficiently (or that the correct market level of parks would emerge in the free market).

In the case of parks, there is a slight public good problem in that it would be costly to create a private park that somehow only allowed members to enter.  The cost of fences and/or guards would probably rival that of the whole rest of the park in some cases.  Almost everyone might be willing to pay $20 a year for a city park, but nobody would pay $500 a year for a private gated park (I have no idea if those numbers are right).

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we have no good reason to be radical about private parks.  Don't come off like an extremist for no good reason.
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JT

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2003, 10:22:12 pm »

Quote from: Zxcv
Quote
I'm hardly the public speaker, but a tactic occurs to me on this.

When the press starts dinging you about the typical libertarian wet-dreams like privatizing parks and roads, just come back something like this: "Look, in this country we can hardly take an airplane trip without worrying about getting a body-cavity search. When I pull cash from my bank account the government hears about it. We've got over 2,000,000 people in jail, most for victimless crimes. The schools are falling apart, kids are graduating illiterate, yet they keep sucking in ever more tax dollars. Governments everywhere are confiscating property on the mere suspicion of a crime, and any drug addict under questioning who randomly fingers your house address can cause you to get your door kicked in at 3AM and a gun put to your head.

Now, did you have some kind of question about privatizing parks?"

NICE!!!  I'm gonna have to remember this.  It's an excellent response to some of the dumb questions that Libertarians get asked...
« Last Edit: April 28, 2003, 10:28:25 pm by JT »
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JasonPSorens

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2003, 07:15:05 am »

I actually used something like this in a recent LTE to the Idaho State Journal, where a heavily slanted editorial against us was printed.  So thanks for the idea, Paul. :)
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Zxcv

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2003, 08:49:36 am »

Maybe I read your response, or read another thing by someone else along the same lines - then forgot that I read it. It's happened before.   :-[

"There's nothing new under the sun."
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JasonPSorens

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2003, 10:51:35 am »

No, no, I was thinking of your post here when I wrote the LTE, so it was your original idea (so far as I know).
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

BillG

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2003, 09:25:53 pm »

>snip<

An all "green" state sounds like a paradise except the way they are going about it is through force and making that force the federal government.  Not for me, thanks!  

The way FSP wants go about their plans is from the bottom up which is the best plan of all.  The assumption that 20,000 free thinking Libertarians marching into a very Liberal State would be a killer!  But that is not the way it will be done.  The group will find jobs, buy homes, start and attend schools just like everybody else.  

The one thing we all agree here is that we will work to change laws we don't like, not blatantly break them at will.  

I was so pleased to read yesterday that Arcata California has decided to ignore the Patriots Bill!  If more local cities, counties and then states  could organize to know off what we all know to be against the constitution we wouldn't have to start a new community.


Sandy-

just to be clear - the Greens are a complete grassroots organization growing from the bottom-up(probably more so than the Libertarians) only recently (last 1.5 yrs)having a national organization with 1 or 2 paid employees. Before that they were an "Association of State Green Parties" for 5 years and for 10 years before that a few hundred local groups - very loosley organized. btw - Ralph Nader has never joined the party and doesn't answer to the platform - don't confuse what he advocates as party line...if there even is such a thing.

Also - you'll be happy to know the person that introduced and advocated against the Pariot Act in Arcata, California is city council member Dave Meserve, who just happens to be a CA Green!

bg
http://www.geocities.com/geolibertariangreens/Geo2.html

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Eddie_Bradford

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Re:NPR documentary on FSP this weekend
« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2003, 11:13:25 pm »

Actually "the Greens" is a different party entirely from the "Green" party.... until recently at least.  "The Greens" were even more socialistic and further left than the "Green" party.  Many people involved with "the Greens" wanted to join with the "Green" party but the vote failed and a great many people disserted the party and joined the more promenant "Green" party.  This left "the Greens" with basically nothing left.  
  Anyway I don't know what makes you think the "Green" party is more grassroots than the Libertarian party considering the Libertarians run way more candidates all over the country.  I do agree though that they want more local control of government like we libertarians do.  In fact I'd say there is around 20-40% of issues that both libertarians and Greens agree on.  Also know any national candidate fielded by the Green party, such as Nader, is going to be funded by personal ingury lawyers.  I have friend who votes Green but is hecka angery with them because her main concern is the environment but ironically this is very low on their list of priorities.  They are first of all anti-war then socialist and anti-gun and usually disslike whatever the American possition regardless of how hypocriticaly the other view is.  Anyway I'm really glad there is a green party but I have no illusions that they are part of some significant grassroots movement.  They are more like an association of people are angry with the government but are not really interested in learning about issues or deciding on coherant possitions.  Anyway at least they are angery at the government.

-Eddie
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