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Author Topic: HB 588 to lower drinking age  (Read 50831 times)

creaganlios

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2009, 03:17:04 pm »

At 18 the American citizen is granted the right to purchase pornography and tobacco.

At 18 the American citizen can join the armed forces.

At 18 the American citizen is given the power of the vote.

If the American citizen can be trusted , at 18, to help shape the town, county, state and federal government, then, by all means, the American citizen should be trusted to drink and/or purchase alcohol.

Bingo.  End of Discussion.
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Keyser Soce

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2009, 11:34:18 am »

At 18 the American citizen is granted the right to...

You can't be granted a right. People / governments may choose to recognize them, or not.
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doobie

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2009, 01:34:20 pm »

At 18 the American citizen is granted the right to...

You can't be granted a right. People / governments may choose to recognize them, or not.

Government can only steal Rights away from the people.  It does not give them to people.
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John Edward Mercier

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2009, 01:42:08 pm »

Positive rights are granted.
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saiphes

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2009, 03:34:15 pm »

My first reaction is that this is a funding thing.  That's 3 more years of tax revenue. Get highschool kids out to the state-owned liquor stores and spending their money.
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erinyay

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2009, 06:11:44 pm »



Depraved-Heart Murder

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...

from the wiki:
    * Playing Russian Roulette
    * Piloting a motorboat at high speed through a crowded swimming area on a lake.
    * Shooting a gun randomly at a bus with passengers aboard.
    * Speeding in a car to the right of a school bus that is unloading children.
    * Shooting a gun into a thicket, not knowing or caring if anyone is in the thicket.
    * Falsely accusing an innocent person of a crime that sentences him or her to life in jail, and results in that person committing suicide.
    * Shooting a gun at a passenger train.
    * Shooting a loaded gun to scare
    * Killing someone while driving drunk.

(I'd say at least TWO of these things are not like the others, actually.)
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rossby

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2009, 06:19:46 pm »



Depraved-Heart Murder

One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong...

from the wiki:
    * Playing Russian Roulette
    * Piloting a motorboat at high speed through a crowded swimming area on a lake.
    * Shooting a gun randomly at a bus with passengers aboard.
    * Speeding in a car to the right of a school bus that is unloading children.
    * Shooting a gun into a thicket, not knowing or caring if anyone is in the thicket.
    * Falsely accusing an innocent person of a crime that sentences him or her to life in jail, and results in that person committing suicide.
    * Shooting a gun at a passenger train.
    * Shooting a loaded gun to scare
    * Killing someone while driving drunk.

(I'd say at least TWO of these things are not like the others, actually.)

Russian Roulette. You can't murder yourself :)
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erinyay

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2009, 06:33:50 pm »

THREE, then!

Falsely accusing someone of a crime that results in their suicide gets a big "Oh, for..." from this girl.
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rossby

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2009, 07:09:09 pm »

THREE, then!

Falsely accusing someone of a crime that results in their suicide gets a big "Oh, for..." from this girl.

Eh. It probably doesn't mean just incorrectly accusing someone of a crime, but accusing someone of a crime you know they didn't actually commit. If it's foreseeable the person might kill himself because of what you did, I can see that. Sorta like a doctor purposefully telling a homophobe that his HIV test came back positive (when it didn't) while knowing that the patient would kill himself because of it.

... what was #2?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 09:13:55 pm by B.D. Ross »
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madness!

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2009, 12:50:03 am »

why would a school bus be unloading people with a right lane open? unless they mean pulling up on a sidewalk, or as i like to call it "the auxiliary lane for people who like to go fast"
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maxxoccupancy

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2009, 05:52:30 am »

At 18 the American citizen is granted the right to...

You can't be granted a right. People / governments may choose to recognize them, or not.

+1... This is the difference between legal and natural rights.  Just governments and legislators must recognize natural rights and leave alone those who leave others alone.

From a practical standpoint (until we have 1500-2000 political activists), small changes like this one (working our way around "loopholes" in the federal law without jeopardizing federal funds) are aboot all we can hope for.

eh

Government can only steal Rights away from the people.  It does not give them to people.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 10:56:59 pm by maxxoccupancy »
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erinyay

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2009, 09:51:31 am »



... what was #2?

Killing someone while drunk driving! IMO, there's a substantial difference between wantonly shooting a firearm into a crowd, where there is a reasonable expectation of harm, and driving drunk and getting involved in an accident, resulting in a death. If we are to say that the vehicle is the weapon, simply driving too fast, or too slow, driving while talking on the phone or texting or having a heated conversation, or in a pickup with those big monster tires (viva northern NH), are all the same as shooting an assault weapon into a bus full of kids.

This situation? Maybe. http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2009/08/woman_in_fatal_crash_after_dri.html (The Diane Schuler case)
Having a few beers and being at or slightly above the legal BAC? Ridiculous.
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madness!

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2009, 10:29:59 am »

Drunk drivers are involved in 9% of accidents, but 39% percent of deaths.
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rossby

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2009, 11:31:15 am »



... what was #2?

If we are to say that the vehicle is the weapon, simply driving too fast, or too slow, driving while talking on the phone or texting or having a heated conversation, or in a pickup with those big monster tires (viva northern NH), are all the same as shooting an assault weapon into a bus full of kids.

No one's saying a car is a weapon. Just that drinking excessively and driving is expected to produce serious injuries. And everyone knows that. People who respect other people's lives don't get behind the wheel of car when their judgment is impaired. From the article you link to:

Quote
A mother drank vodka and smoked marijuana while taking a vanload of children home from a weekend camping trip that ended in disaster when she went the wrong way on a highway and crashed into an SUV, killing eight people, police said Tuesday.

Diane Schuler, who died along with her 2-year-old daughter and three nieces in her red minivan, had more than 10 drinks of alcohol in her system and a high level of the main ingredient in marijuana, authorities said. A broken 1.75-liter bottle of Absolut vodka was found in her wrecked minivan, police said.

...

Schuler's blood-alcohol level was well above the legal limit, and she still had undigested alcohol in her stomach, State Police Maj. William Carey said Tuesday.

Blood tests also showed she had smoked marijuana 15 minutes to an hour before the crash, said Betsy Spratt, chief toxicologist for the Westchester County medical examiner.

"With that level of alcohol ... she would have had difficulty with perception, with her judgment, with her memory," Spratt said. "You start to get what we call tunnel vision."

...

"We're outraged by it," [Roseann Guzzo] said. "It's a choice she made. And that choice she made to us is like she committed murder."

A beer or two affects your judgment. So does a lack of sleep. Or even talking on a cell phone. If the thing causes your accident, I can see that as negligence, but not murder. But in the above situation, that's hardly a couple beers. ;)
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erinyay

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Re: HB 588 to lower drinking age
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2009, 01:02:06 pm »



A beer or two affects your judgment. So does a lack of sleep. Or even talking on a cell phone. If the thing causes your accident, I can see that as negligence, but not murder. But in the above situation, that's hardly a couple beers. ;)

Yup yup. That lady was a nutjob and wanted to die AND take those kids out. That? That's a depraved-heart crime, I'd say.

Also, I don't think drunk driving is a GOOD idea or a defensible choice in any way. My primary issue with drunk driving laws, like with seatbelt and speeding laws, is that the only "harm" done at the time of the ticket is the breaking of the law, with no other harm.
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