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Author Topic: Why NH?  (Read 10727 times)

bigd

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Why NH?
« on: January 25, 2009, 02:58:06 am »

I am just curious as a fellow libertarian why the free-state project chose New Hampshire. NH seems absolutely awesome, but it is limited by being a part of the US. Has there ever been a movement to start a libertarian leaning nation? I would definitely move there, but since most of the taxes and regulations are from the federal government it really doesn't seem to matter if everyone is in one state.

Is there a secession movement in NH?
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sj

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 03:31:29 am »

Has there ever been a movement to start a libertarian leaning nation?

Yes, it's called the Libertarian Party.  Not working out too well, is it?

There is a European Free State Project but they can't seem to settle on a place for the project to focus.

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I would definitely move there

If you would pack up and move to another country where you'd need a visa from the gov't to visit your family, would have to learn a new language and culture...then I don't think moving to NH will be a problem.

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but since most of the taxes and regulations are from the federal government it really doesn't seem to matter if everyone is in one state.

This is answered ad nauseum elsewhere on the site and on the forum, so I won't repeat it here.  However, (1) states have lots more power than you might think and (2) getting libertarian activists concentrated in one area will have a dramatic effect.  The fact that we also will be in the freest state in the country is a bonus.

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Is there a secession movement in NH?

You might be interested in this bill.  You also might be interested in knowing what our neighbors are up to.
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lasse

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 08:16:29 am »

'Starting' a new nation has actually been tried several times before, and it always ends predictably in ruins and jail.

As for moving to a different country as a start, there are no countries in the world more free than the U.S., nor are there any other countries with the same classical liberal legacy. Sad, but true.
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lloydbob1

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 09:25:04 am »

I agree.  As bad as it is it's probably the best country to try this. I've never understood people who think about moving to Belize or Costa Rica.
Those governments will nationalize American expats property 'first' when they begin to kick expats out.  That's if they do it before Nicaragua and Guatemala invade them.
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Russell Kanning

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 10:23:44 am »

the idea of the free state project was to pick  a state.
I bet you can find guys picking a country somewhere on the internet.
The guys here are really into this choosing NH, moving here, and doing stuph like seceeding. It might take a while.  :)
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

MK

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2009, 03:42:35 pm »

Never before have true Liberty Lovers focused on one geographic area and never before has such progress/success been achieved.  To see it with your own two eyes, check out the numerous videos at www.ridleyreport.com and also try listening to a radio show called www.freetalklive.com

The way things are headed, one could m ake a case that seccession is coming sooner than later.  There's a number of Free State Project Participants who are in favor of it and so NH is a great place to be around it.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2009, 04:26:36 pm by Peacemaker »
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bigd

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 02:34:18 pm »

Thanks everyone for the replies. Actually the economic freedom rankings put the US at 6th, behind Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, Ireland, and New Zealand. Obviously that doesn't take into account personal freedoms, but I'm sure the latter three have at least as many as the US. I am thinking an island, where there currently is not country. At this point I am highly considering a move to Nevada which is taxed only slightly more than NH, and has medical marijuana, gambling, prostitution, and very loose gun laws.

I  just think we need to find an island and found our own country, IMO, it is too late for the US. We are becoming a socialist state, and have lost our federalist ideals which would make this project more feasible. I wish the US govt could become more like the EU and let each state do their own thing.

Thanks again for the replies.
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sj

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 02:54:03 pm »

NH will have medical marijuana by next year.
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bigd

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 02:58:58 pm »

Just curious, how many libertarian currently reside in NH? Did a lot of people vote for Ron Paul? I see Obama won the state, which is ok. I tend to get along much better with liberals than conservatives.
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sj

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 03:37:00 pm »

Just curious, how many libertarian currently reside in NH? Did a lot of people vote for Ron Paul? I see Obama won the state, which is ok. I tend to get along much better with liberals than conservatives.

Registration-wise, there are more people registered as independent than anything else.  New Hampshire was Ron Paul's 3rd best primary (and you have to keep in mind that there were around 22+ candidates in the race at that time.  When he got his highest primary in PA, there were only 3 candidates).
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 03:50:29 pm »

Here's the paragraph on Nevada from our forthcoming study Freedom in the 50 States:

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Nevada has a reputation as a “libertarian state,” mostly because of legal prostitution and gambling, but perception does not meet reality. Nevada scores a disappointing 32nd place on personal freedom and 24th overall. On fiscal policy the state is overall about average. However, the state is about two standard deviations better than average on fiscal decentralization, one standard deviation better than average on government employment, and more than two standard deviations worse than average on government employee wages (they make 18 percent more than private industry). Gun and alcohol laws are fairly relaxed, and marijuana laws are better than average, except for the possibility of life imprisonment for a single conviction. The state falls down, however, in imposing the strictest private school regulations in the country: mandatory state approval of all schools, mandatory state licensure of all teachers, and detailed curriculum control. Home school laws are far less restrictive, but notification requirements are still somewhat onerous relative to other states. Additionally, the asset forfeiture regime is the worst in the country. The burden of proof is on the claimant, who must prove that the property was not used in a crime. Smoking bans are virtually complete in public places, restaurants, and workplaces (bars are exempted). Labor laws are relatively good, except for the prevailing wage law. Health insurance mandates are more than a standard deviation worse than average. As of 2006, Nevada had not reformed eminent domain, but they have since done so.

There are certainly worse states, but if you care about the whole freedom package, only two states can more or less match New Hampshire: South Dakota and Colorado - and Idaho, Texas, Wyoming, Missouri, Virginia, and maybe Alaska are all pretty decent too. Of course, none of those are experiencing an influx of libertarian activists on the scale that NH is.
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bigd

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 04:33:13 pm »

I am actually only 17, and likely headed to Nevada for college. I currently live in California, and while I love the bay area, especially Berkeley, SF, and Oakland, I just can't stand the California govt. I am extremely socially liberal, but also very fiscally conservative. NH looks beautiful, but I don't think its really realistic to move there at this point in my life.

I just wish there was a libertarian country, I would definitely move there.
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 04:39:04 pm »

I am actually only 17, and likely headed to Nevada for college. I currently live in California, and while I love the bay area, especially Berkeley, SF, and Oakland, I just can't stand the California govt. I am extremely socially liberal, but also very fiscally conservative. NH looks beautiful, but I don't think its really realistic to move there at this point in my life.

I just wish there was a libertarian country, I would definitely move there.

I generally recommend going to college first before moving to NH, if it looks to be important for what you want to do in the future. (Of course, NH does have colleges!) NH will still be here 5 years from now.
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"Educate your children, educate yourselves, in the love for the freedom of others, for only in this way will your own freedom not be a gratuitous gift from fate. You will be aware of its worth and will have the courage to defend it." --Joaquim Nabuco (1883), Abolitionism

Russell Kanning

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 05:20:03 pm »

I  just think we need to find an island and found our own country, IMO, it is too late for the US.
then that would be the free country project .... which you may need to start. I wish you luck.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
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"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Keyser Soce

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Re: Why NH?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 02:52:54 pm »

I am actually only 17, and likely headed to Nevada for college. I currently live in California, and while I love the bay area, especially Berkeley, SF, and Oakland, I just can't stand the California govt. I am extremely socially liberal, but also very fiscally conservative. NH looks beautiful, but I don't think its really realistic to move there at this point in my life.

I just wish there was a libertarian country, I would definitely move there.

Sounds like you'd fit right in.

It's as realistic as you want it to be.
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