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Author Topic: 2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Wyoming not the place, not independent enough  (Read 15844 times)

Rearden

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Re:Why everyone should pay their taxes
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2003, 01:45:19 pm »


This is an old story, most of us have already seen it.  

I hadn't, and neither had Steven, above.  

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If I remember, is this the same person that refuses to pay his federal income taxes and talked about it during his whole bid for governor?  Correct me if I am wrong.  Sounds pretty cool, but way to out-there for the FSP.  

He got really positive press from WorldNetDaily by successfully fighting off the IRS for twenty years.

Here's a big question -- if he's "way to out-there for the FSP," for not paying his taxes, as you say, then why aren't people who threaten to shoot us if we set foot in their state "way to out-there?"

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Anyway, maybe people from Wyoming are not as independent as we think...  Maybe they are.   We need to keep in mind that Wyoming's group of U.S. Congress members is the most libertarian group of Congress members in the country.  If you did not know this, check with the Republican Liberty C. or Gun Owners of America or some other libertarian organization.  You cannot get more libertarian than Wyoming (well, at least until the FSP  picks a state). I do not know what that means to you, but to me, it indicates that Wyoming might have the most libertarian people in the country.  Either way, if we run as libertarians we will do great, because libertarians are winning most of Wyoming's major elections, already.

Hmm.  I'll not make a big deal about the Democratic governor right now.  

I think you can get a whole lot more libertarian than Wyoming, in a place called New Hampshire, and probably in other places too.  I checked the RLC Liberty Index, and in the latest session listed, 2001, here were the scores:

NH:  90, 87.5, 80, 71.5
WY:  88, 87.5, 74.5

Respectfully, Freedom, your facts are wrong, and it bothers me greatly that some others may take your word for it when you write factually-challenged statesments instead of checking it for themselves.

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People from most of the states have said they wanted us and at the same time people from most of the states have said they do not want us.

As I said earlier, I have yet to see a single statement from someone from New Hampshire saying we will not be welcome there.  I have seen much of this from the west, up to and including death threats.  

I'll be in Concord, NH, on June 27th talking to a governor that wants us to move to his state and help cut down what is already the smallest government in the nation.  

Why don't you come check it out?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2003, 04:33:16 pm by Keith Murphy »
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di540

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: "Don't Come Here!!"
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2003, 01:48:18 pm »


Libertarian candidate for governor Dave Dawson supports the Free State
Project. He has advocated less government at every turn on the campaign
trail, pushing for repeal of federal income taxes and handing education,
health care and other government programs to the private sector.

Another example of LP lack of integrity. As governor, he could not repeal
any U.S. tax. Instead, he should say that he will insist that the IRS
enforce the tax laws to the letter, which they usually do not do. The
Wyoming Sheriffs' Association did this in effect by suing such agents, but
they have only stopped abusive collection actions; they have not stopped
garden variety intimidation to get people to pay a tax for which there is
no law to make them liable. Those laws ought to be enforced at least as
literally as in Puerto Rico, where employees aren't required to file 1040s
for income tax on their wages, nor pay that tax. That's because by law &
regulation, the employer is made liable for the tax on wages, even if the
employees aren't duped into paying the employer's liablity via withholding:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/cfr/26p31.htm  & click on the link entitled
"31.3403-1 Liability for tax" which says that he's liable whether or not
he withholds.

"It's a great idea," he said of the Free State Project. "The problem is getting Libertarians to do something all together is a lot like herding cats."

Well, at least he's honest that the LP isn't blessed with immunity or
infallibility.  No political party is capable of formulating and
presenting a coherent platform. It would be better 1st to adopt a general
principle of weeding out redundant laws, rather than painting yourselves
into the same corner as the LP platform.

Dawson said he would love to see the plan succeed but doesn't think Wyoming is the place. The state is not as independently minded as everyone thinks, he said.

As I said before about Montana, you could run into resentment for trying
to change a system that is perceived to be running quite well. Also, you
might be perceived as not being that much different from the local
Republicans, and so you'd run into more inertia, than in a state like
Nevada, which is generally perceived as corrupt.

By way of comparison, New Hampshire's enormously popular Governor Craig
Benson will be meeting with FSP members in his office June 27th.  Already
busy paring down the nation's smallest state government, his unfavorable
rating is a paltry 6%.  The LPNH thinks so much of him they are seriously
considering cross-nominating the man.

How about that, fellow members?  We can move into a state where we already have the executive branch locked up!

He has no business issuing permits for arms that one can keep & bear.
Besides, NH is like WY & MT. You'd be better off moving to states like
Alaska & Maine which have secessionist movements, that can be leveraged
as credible threats for when the bad karma hits the fan, and you need to
back off DC. QuEbec often plays that card successfully to get what it
wants w/in the Confederation.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2003, 02:08:26 pm by mAximo »
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Hank

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: "Don't Come Here!!"
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2003, 02:30:07 pm »

Quote
I have read posts threatening us with death upon our appearance, and now I read about a candidate for statewide office saying that his state is not what many think it is.
I notice a trend here -- they are all in the west.  I have seen little evidence that we would be welcome there, and much to the contrary.  In comparison, we have a meeting with the governor of New Hampshire set up, and have yet to read a single letter to the editor from someone in New Hampshire saying that we are not welcome there.  No editorials.  No death threats.  None.
What death threats have you read from Wyoming? ZACK and others like him were told they were not welcome or else. But the rest of us?? I'd bet WE are welcome since WE are not threatening a hostile takeover.

NH guys make a big stink out of WyoRancher's reaction to Zack who is NOT one of "us",  but narry a decent rebuttal to your own Heyduke's concerns at
What about being an unwelcome presence? Heyduke gave us this warning from New Hampshire.
Quote
I am a native of New Hampshire, and I am not the least bit excited about the idea of 20,000 out-of-staters moving in and attempting to hijack the local political system.
How does FSP plan upon addressing this extremely valid concern of mine?
...
But as I said--you have a tough row to hoe ahead of you, and your biggest challenge from a philosophical standpoint (based solely upon what I have been reading on these forums), is hubris.
...
Anyways--I caution you on assuming that a state as rich in history and culture as NH would open its arms wide and accept any size group let alone 5~20 thousand.  I know for a fact that there are few locations that could absorb that size a population increase--the move alone would likely cause backlash with the local incumbent officers to create growth moratoriums, and there is no one area outside of Berlin that could handle such an influx.

It seems were even on the "Unwelcome Presence" posts.

I'd bet Zack would get the same reception in New Hampshire as in Wyoming. Ummmm... Maybe not.
Wyoming would be more right up front about telling Zack he is not welcome.
New Hampshire would let him stew.
That's an idea!
You guys can have Zack. ;D
« Last Edit: April 29, 2003, 04:07:07 pm by Black Hills Hank »
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Zxcv

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: "Don't Come Here!!"
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2003, 03:04:19 pm »

Quote
I think you can get a whole lot more libertarian than Wyoming, in a place called New Hampshire, and probably in other places too.  I checked the RLC Liberty Index, and in the latest session listed, 2001, here were the scores:

NH:  90, 87.5, 80, 71.5 (lowest score, Sununu, lost re-election)
WY:  88, 87.5, 74.5 (lowest score, Cubin, won re-election)

Respectfully, Freedom, your facts are wrong, and it bothers me greatly that some others may take your word for it when you write factually-challenged statesments instead of checking it for themselves.
Keith M, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

First, the average of the scores you post is 82.25 for NH, 83.33 for WY, essentially identical.

Second, taking a single year's results are questionable. I took the entire data set posted by RLC and put it into the big spreadsheet. The (normalized) result for both economic and personal freedom for Wyoming is 10. The result for NH is 9.15 for personal freedom, 9.43 for economic freedom (Idaho slightly betters this, and Alaska slightly trails it).

If you want to see my calculations I will be happy to send them to you.

Your statements seem overly harsh given the above.

Quote
I'm pretty sure that he knows more about politics than a rancher, although LP members in general aren't very politically saavy.  His campaign didn't go too far, to be sure, but he did get 2%, which seems to be the norm for LP candidates in general.  

Come on, Keith M, you know as well as I do you can get 2% by putting your name on the ballot!  ::)

Quote
Although he is one individual, he is an individual that spent months touring the state, talking to thousands of constituents.  I'd think he has a pretty good handle on how Wyomingites think.

Maybe, maybe not. But you are putting an awful lot of credence on a reporter's characterization of some statement of Dawson's (we don't even have a direct quote) that might have been tossed off in a moment of irritation at fellow Wyomingites. We don't know how credible the reporter is; we don't really know how credible Dawson is, nor do we really have a fix on his ability to read the minds of his fellow citizens. We have nothing.

BTW, I think all you have to do is hit the "modify" button at the top of your original post, if you want to modify it.   ;)

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Quote
It would be pretty foolish to base our decision on the comments of individuals here or there.  
 

Agreed. But what we are seeing here is a pattern: Negative comments from residents, government officials, and the press in the western states as opposed to positive comments coming out of New Hampshire from all three.
George, would you care to document those comments? Sorry, I don't get too excited about someone just saying they've talked to a lot of people and not gotten one bad comment. If people in NH are so unanimous about us, then what do they need us for? They can fix their own problems themselves!   ;)

Oh, since you guys have just no statement in opposition, I decided to find one for you:
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Uhh, I live in New Hampshire. And lets just say that these 20,000 people do this, what about me? I already live here. I'm a US Citizen and I like being one. What do I have to do? Leave? Who's going to pay for my re-location? Why do you have the right to kick me out of my house? If you want, buy a huge chunk of land in a state and make that space your new country or whatever, don't make the whole state change.
-- http://scootz.net/~travis
I found it in some blog

There, are you happy? Now you won't be able to say no one in NH opposes you any more.  ;)

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Rearden

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: "Don't Come Here!!"
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2003, 03:28:19 pm »

What death threats have you read from Wyoming? ZACK and others like him were told they were not welcome or else. But the rest of us?? I'd bet WE are welcome since WE are not threatening a hostile takeover.

He said he would shoot an FSP member, based solely on that person's unorthodox opinion.  Sounds like a death threat to me...  

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NH guys make a big stink out of WyoRancher's reaction to Zack who is NOT one of "us",  but narry a decent rebuttal to your own Heyduke's concerns at
Heyduke gave us this warning from New Hampshire.
Quote
I am a native of New Hampshire, and I am not the least bit excited about the idea of 20,000 out-of-staters moving in and attempting to hijack the local political system.
How does FSP plan upon addressing this extremely valid concern of mine?It seems were even on the "Unwelcome Presence" posts.

I had not read that thread, so now that I have I stand corrected.  That was certainly a unique experience.  However, I read this from Heyduke a few posts down:

Quote
For instance--I'm a highly educated professional NH native, registered repub right now, was ind. before the primaries, will vote down fernald, support shaheen, jeb bradley, voted for mccain and then gore...when I was a VT resident for a few years, I helped elect Bernie Sanders, Pete Clavelle and Howard Dean.  And I'm not alone...as the last Pres. primary revealed, as well as the election of Angus King in Maine, the tremendous support for Jim Jeffords in VT, and a staunch refusal to enact income and sales taxes in NH in spite of the would be risk to the educational funding system.

Heyduke is obviously a very conflicted person, with no clear political philosophy.  How can someone honestly say that they helped elect Bernie Sanders and Jim Jeffords, yet oppose income and sales taxes?  I mean, Bernie Sanders is an admitted socialist!  This is like voting for Ron Paul and Jesse Jackson!
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Rearden

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: "Don't Come Here!!"
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2003, 04:15:07 pm »

Quote
I think you can get a whole lot more libertarian than Wyoming, in a place called New Hampshire, and probably in other places too.  I checked the RLC Liberty Index, and in the latest session listed, 2001, here were the scores:

NH:  90, 87.5, 80, 71.5
WY:  88, 87.5, 74.5

Respectfully, Freedom, your facts are wrong, and it bothers me greatly that some others may take your word for it when you write factually-challenged statesments instead of checking it for themselves.
Keith M, people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

First, the average of the scores you post is 82.25 for NH, 83.33 for WY, essentially identical.  

They are essentially identical, agreed.  Freedom's statement was that the RLC showed that Wyoming was more libertarian.  My point was that it showed no such thing.  I did not post incorrect information.  

Quote

Second, taking a single year's results are questionable. I took the entire data set posted by RLC and put it into the big spreadsheet. The (normalized) result for both economic and personal freedom for Wyoming is 10. The result for NH is 9.15 for personal freedom, 9.43 for economic freedom (Idaho slightly betters this, and Alaska slightly trails it).

If you want to see my calculations I will be happy to send them to you.

Yes, I would like to see this.  Please send it to me at keithrmurphy@comcast.net.  Thanks.  I agree that one year is not enough to draw a conclusion, and will investigate other years.

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Your statements seem overly harsh given the above.

Didn't mean to be too harsh.  My apologies if it came across that way.
Quote
Quote
I'm pretty sure that he knows more about politics than a rancher, although LP members in general aren't very politically saavy.  His campaign didn't go too far, to be sure, but he did get 2%, which seems to be the norm for LP candidates in general.  

Come on, Keith M, you know as well as I do you can get 2% by putting your name on the ballot!  ::)

Here in MD the LP candidate got .87% of the vote, and he was a really good guy and smart politician.  Generally it seems that 2% is as good as an LP candidate for statewide office can hope for, at least for the time being.

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Quote
Although he is one individual, he is an individual that spent months touring the state, talking to thousands of constituents.  I'd think he has a pretty good handle on how Wyomingites think.

Maybe, maybe not. But you are putting an awful lot of credence on a reporter's characterization of some statement of Dawson's (we don't even have a direct quote) that might have been tossed off in a moment of irritation at fellow Wyomingites. We don't know how credible the reporter is; we don't really know how credible Dawson is, nor do we really have a fix on his ability to read the minds of his fellow citizens. We have nothing.  

I wouldn't bet the farm on Dawson's comments, that's for sure.  But I do put a lot more weight on his comments than those of any other single person, yes.  He is a libertarian from Wyoming who has run a campaign for statewide office there.  To me, that means that he has a much better idea of what Wyoming is like than you, or me, or anybody else who has not run a campaign in Wyoming.


Quote
It would be pretty foolish to base our decision on the comments of individuals here or there.  
 

Quote
Agreed. But what we are seeing here is a pattern: Negative comments from residents, government officials, and the press in the western states as opposed to positive comments coming out of New Hampshire from all three.
Quote
George, would you care to document those comments? Sorry, I don't get too excited about someone just saying they've talked to a lot of people and not gotten one bad comment. If people in NH are so unanimous about us, then what do they need us for? They can fix their own problems themselves!   ;)

They've certainly done a better job of it than any other state in the country, in my opinion.  They don't need us, you're right.  But do we want to go where we are "needed" (New York City), or do we want to go where the political culture is most suitable for success (New Hampshire)?

Quote
Oh, since you guys have just no statement in opposition, I decided to find one for you:
Quote
Uhh, I live in New Hampshire. And lets just say that these 20,000 people do this, what about me? I already live here. I'm a US Citizen and I like being one. What do I have to do? Leave? Who's going to pay for my re-location? Why do you have the right to kick me out of my house? If you want, buy a huge chunk of land in a state and make that space your new country or whatever, don't make the whole state change.
-- http://scootz.net/~travis
I found it in some blog

There, are you happy? Now you won't be able to say no one in NH opposes you any more.  ;)

Well, that's true.  He did express a concern... about being turned into a refugee from an invading army who is going to take his property.  Can you find someone who opposes us who actually has a clue of what we stand for?  I mean, this guy thinks we're going to march in, kick everybody else out by force, and secede from the country!

Compared to this guy, Dawson looks like a friggin' genius.  At least he knows what a libertarian is.


« Last Edit: April 29, 2003, 04:31:33 pm by Keith Murphy »
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Hank

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Don't Come Here!!
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2003, 04:16:04 pm »

Keith, you seem like a reasonable person. Instead of taking Zack's questionable word for it, why don't you also go read the Comments from a Wyoming Rancher.
Here are the exact words. Note the reaction to a perceived extreme threat. Note that later in related threads I reacted the same to a hostile takeover by attitudes like Zack's which seem determined to ignore and even walk all over the locals. Zack seemingly has this attitude of  We're going to do what is best for you whether you like it or not. We're going to have our own sheriff and impose our libertarian utopia on you because WE are in the majority now! I'm paraphrasing from a compendium of Zack's posts over many threads. He may not have used those exact words but the message sure is the same. THAT is what WyoRancher is reacting to below.
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The main reason the way Wyoming is the way it is, is because the people here love their freedom, their land and their state. I was quite appalled at the attitude I found in some of the FSP posts where you want to come in and "take over" my state, and impose your own system on it. (But understand that your ideas are pretty much EXACTLY what the people of rural Wyoming would want of government, but it is the ATTITUDE that is intolerable.) Several points:

{read the original post but here is the supposed threat in context! }

Now if you show up in our borders with that "we're coming into your state, taking over and changing it to a Liberatian Utopia", you won't have to worry about the government stopping you... the people will. And if that is the attitude you arrive with, I'll be one of those people behind the barrel asking you to leave. Like most Wyomingites, I will protect my home, family and neighbors from all invaders, foreign and domestic. And if 20,000 fellow Citizens show up in this state as an invading army, you will be treated as such, and expelled.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2003, 04:28:42 pm by Black Hills Hank »
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George Reich

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Don't Come Here!!
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2003, 04:26:56 pm »

Wyoming rancher made several references to the idea of drug legalization being very unpopular in Wyoming. I'm sure Zack is not the only FSP member libertarian enough to be in favor of this.
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freedomroad

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Re:Why everyone should pay their taxes
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2003, 07:56:08 pm »

Before I comment of Keith's post, I would like to ask you something.  Keith (and libertarian40 too), please be honest and open when comparing the states.


He got really positive press from WorldNetDaily by successfully fighting off the IRS for twenty years.

Dave homeschooled his kid(s), payed no state income tax, no federal income taxes, very low property taxes, low sales taxes, was a short drive from no sales taxes (in MT), could carry a gun (almost anywhere) without a permit, and was in a debate for the largest office in the state while a member of the LP (which is a major party in Wyoming).  He did all of this in Wyoming.  Sounds pretty good, eh?

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Here's a big question -- if he's "way to out-there for the FSP," for not paying his taxes, as you say, then why aren't people who threaten to shoot us if we set foot in their state "way to out-there?"

No one from Wyoming even threatened to shot anyone from the FSP.  Almost all of Wyomings citizens that have talked with us have said it it a good idea or something similar.  Even Dave said it would work in Wyoming.

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Hmm.  I'll not make a big deal about the Democratic governor right now.  

OK.  Actually, this Democratic governor is standing up to the Federal government.  He has already passed one bill that violates Federal law and has pissed off lots of federal people.  Also, chances are, if the LP would not have been in the race, the Republican would have won.  Do not forget about the long, long time that NH had a Democratic governor.  Also, let's not forget..... NH voted for Bill Clinton twice and was less than 20,000 votes from voting for Al Gore.

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I think you can get a whole lot more libertarian than Wyoming, in a place called New Hampshire, and probably in other places too.  I checked the RLC Liberty Index, and in the latest session listed, 2001, here were the scores:

NH:  90, 87.5, 80, 71.5
WY:  88, 87.5, 74.5

As you can see, the scores agree with what I said.  I am glad you are posting factual info that agrees with what I said.  Thank you for backing me up.  Although, your scores of one year show that Wyoming is better than NH, I'll show you some scores for many years which will help both of us prove my point even more.

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""'
RLC rankings are the most useful tool we have to see what kinds of representatives are elected by the candidate states.
HIGHER NUMBERS ARE BETTER

A. RLC’s personal freedom ranking of U.S. Congress members over the last 10 years

Rankings:
10. Wyoming 67.4
9. Idaho 65.6
8. Alaska 64.0
7. New Hampshire 61.7
6. Montana 57.0
5. South Dakota 47.8
4. Maine 47.5
3. Vermont 42.0
2. Delaware 39.3
1. North Dakota 36.3

B. RLC’s economic freedom ranking of U.S. Congress members over the last 10 years
Rankings:
10. Wyoming 79.2
9. New Hampshire 74.7
8. Idaho 72.3
7. Alaska 67.0
6. Montana 52.4
5. Delaware 51.5
4. South Dakota 50.0
3 Maine 45.4
2 Vermont 32.7
1 North Dakota 27.0
""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
As you can see, Wyoming is the best in the nation.

Idaho does better than NH.

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Respectfully, Freedom, your facts are wrong, and it bothers me greatly that some others may take your word for it when you write factually-challenged statesments instead of checking it for themselves.

Thank you for being respectful.  However, I would rather you be honest.  The numbers that you posted show that I am right.  The numbers that I posted show that I am write.  All of the numbers seem to show that I am right.  Check Gun Owners of America.  It will show the same thing.  Wyoming's group of Congress members are the most libertarian-like group of Congress members in the entire nation.  Also, even with the GOA, Idaho is better than NH.  Keith, please keep in mind that I have spent over 450 hours researching which state is best for the FSP.  

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As I said earlier, I have yet to see a single statement from someone from New Hampshire saying we will not be welcome there.  I have seen much of this from the west, up to and including death threats.  

I have seen several statements that say we will be not welcome in NH.  Actually, even one of the NH reports is unwelcoming, although it does not say do not come.  I have not seen a single death threat from any person from any state.  I know that a guy from Montana threatened to do nasty things to Jason or something, but I have no clue if he threatened to kill Jason.

Wyoming Rancher is very excited about the FSP (maybe) going to Wyoming.  He has offered to help us a great deal.  He did, however, say that he does not wanting anyone trying to takeover the very nice state that he lives in.

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I'll be in Concord, NH, on June 27th talking to a governor that wants us to move to his state and help cut down what is already the smallest government in the nation.  

Why don't you come check it out?

Keith, thanks for asking.  I was thinking about it.  I spent a week in Burlington last summer, very nice.  However, I have 2 jobs and I am going to get an additional job this summer, plus I want to do lots of reading and activism, and other stuff.  Mainly, though, it is hard to get off work with all of the jobs at the same time.  I already have a couple week vacation planed for this winter.
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freedomroad

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Don't Come Here!!
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2003, 08:04:35 pm »

Wyoming rancher made several references to the idea of drug legalization being very unpopular in Wyoming. I'm sure Zack is not the only FSP member libertarian enough to be in favor of this.

Actually, Wyoming is one of the most drug-friendly states in the nation.  The people of Wyoming understand that the WAR on DRUGS is not working.  They decided to make prevention and treatment much more important and recently passed a great law that did this.  Wyoming scores about in the middle of all 10 states when you look at legal issues related to pot.  Wyoming's Senate is going to vote on a medical pot law next year.

The truth is, no states wants hard drugs to be legal.  Many LP members do not even want them to be legal and unreglated or even legal at all.  Many people in the FSP agree.  The FSP will not even try to make hard drugs legal in any of the states.  

We, the people, will go for a step-by-step program.  We will want medical pot to be legal, it already is in most western states and is moving towards WY and MT.  We want hard drugs use to be a treatment, not jail offence.  Also, we will, after some time, push for pot and other light drugs to be made legal.  After 5-20 years, if this does not cause any problem, we will push for some harder drugs.
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jgmaynard

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Don't Come Here!!
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2003, 09:15:44 pm »

As for HeyDuke's questions, it seems to me they were answered pretty well by Elizabeth. He seemed to be mainly satisfied.

Concealed Carry permits here are $10, and almost everyone is approved; they need a DARN good reason to turn you down; convicted of felony spouse beating, say. I know LOTS of people with CC permits, and no one who has ever been turned down... It is a small, 1 page form as well.

Secessionist movements? We got 'em! 3 towns almost broke off from NH last year over the Claremont decision, and 1 town (east Derry) voted on breaking off this spring, also over Claremont. Come on along.. Break off a town! lol... the right to do so has been upheld by NH courts as constitutional under article 10 of the NH Constitution.

I think the RLC is gonna favor Reps over Dems regardless of which one is more liberty-friendly.

Take care all! Caio!

JM
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The Light of Alexandria By James Maynard

A history of the first 1,000 years of science, and how it changed the ancient world, and our world today.



http://www.lightofalexandria.com

Zack Bass

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Don't Come Here!!
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2003, 12:44:19 am »


No one from Wyoming even threatened to shot anyone from the FSP.  


You just quoted it a few minutes ago:

"If that is the attitude you arrive with, I'll be one of those people behind the barrel asking you to leave."

Shoot me for my ATTITUDE.
Well, Wyomingites, EXQUEEEEZE ME, you may protect your own Property, and so may I; but you do not own WYOMING, only a tiny piece of land.

What no one seems to notice is that, if someone is willing to shoot you for intending to come in as a Majority and thereby change the Laws, he will equally shoot you for intending to come in and convince enough of his NEIGHBORS to change the Laws.  Doing it Gradually will not be more calming to him than doing it right off.

« Last Edit: April 30, 2003, 12:47:36 am by Zack Bass »
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Zack Bass

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Don't Come Here!!
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2003, 12:52:33 am »


Secessionist movements? We got 'em! 3 towns almost broke off from NH last year over the Claremont decision, and 1 town (east Derry) voted on breaking off this spring, also over Claremont. Come on along.. Break off a town! lol... the right to do so has been upheld by NH courts as constitutional under article 10 of the NH Constitution.


Does that Constitution mention, anywhere in there, in what Country the broke-off Town will be after the Secession?  If it's still in the U.S., then what State?  New Improved Hampshire?

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Rearden

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Don't Come Here!!
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2003, 01:00:00 am »


Secessionist movements? We got 'em! 3 towns almost broke off from NH last year over the Claremont decision, and 1 town (east Derry) voted on breaking off this spring, also over Claremont. Come on along.. Break off a town! lol... the right to do so has been upheld by NH courts as constitutional under article 10 of the NH Constitution.


Does that Constitution mention, anywhere in there, in what Country the broke-off Town will be after the Secession?  If it's still in the U.S., then what State?  New Improved Hampshire?



Man, you gotta love this:

Article Ten of the NH Constitution is THE RIGHT TO REVOLUTION!!!:  :o

[Art.] 10. [Right of Revolution.]  Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore,   whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government.  The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.

Just one more reason to support NH.  Too bad I can't fit it into my signature line...
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Government can do only one thing: It can break your legs, hand you a crutch, and say, "See?  If not for the government you couldn't walk."

Zack Bass

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Re:2002 WY LP Candidate for Gov: Don't Come Here!!
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2003, 02:24:12 am »

Article Ten of the NH Constitution is THE RIGHT TO REVOLUTION!!!:  :o

[Art.] 10. [Right of Revolution.]  Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security, of the whole community, and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore,   whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered, and all other means of redress are ineffectual, the people may, and of right ought to reform the old, or establish a new government.  The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power, and oppression, is absurd, slavish, and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.


Holy Cow!!!

But it still bothers me that Concord, for example, feels they have a right to make it illegal to buy or sell groceries (among LOTS of other stuff) on "THE LORD'S DAY."  This is nothing but a Special Interest Law "for the private interest or emolument of one man, family, or class of men."
And Concord is the CAPITAL!

We have seen other examples of sweet-sounding Laws and Constitutions that are regularly ignored.

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