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Author Topic: If NH is picked ....  (Read 13826 times)

Dave Mincin

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2003, 10:34:57 pm »

Perhaps true, but then makes me think?  I wonder why?  Perhaps too much talk not enough action!

Perhaps NH is were the action is!
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Robert H.

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2003, 12:01:54 am »

Well, my point was just that it shouldn't be viewed as anything too extraordinary, although it will certainly provide an opportunity for a positive exchange.  I'm sure the governor will be welcoming of just about anyone who wants to move to his state; it's part of what governors do.  But you are certainly correct that the FSP is now on the radar screens of state government officials, and we'll hear much more before too long, I would imagine (especially once the vote is taken).

The only other state official I can think of who is directly doing anything with the FSP at the moment is Montana State Senator Jerry O'Neil who will be a featured speaker at the Grand Western Conference (sponsored by the MTLP).  

And I believe Jason had some sort of interaction with politicians in Vermont and Delaware.

jgmaynard

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2003, 12:06:53 am »

"Why do I think that Governor Benson's willingness to meet with the FSP, is truly and incredible feat?"

Benson, along with many other NH Republicans actually WANTS a strong LP caucus in the statehouse - The forces of Big Government were CRUSHED here in 2002, to the point where the Democrats got SO desperate, they were advertising FOR the LP! I kid you not... The Dems were sending out ads FOR Dan Belforti (L for US Congress) and using their phone lines to support him, in a last desperate effort to bring down the Benson/R machine... Yes, we got a good chuckle out of that too...

If we get even a dozen people in the statehouse (we had 4 at one time 10 years ago), which we are planning on doing in 2004, it is basically the last nail in the coffin for big Government here. Fini. And we know how to make it happen. The R's want to help us, and the D's will be helping us.  8) We have a great opportunity now, and we are taking it.

Hope to see you at the Escape.

JM
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Zxcv

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2003, 05:09:47 am »

Actually, Robert, one can go too far in pooh-poohing what is going on in NH with Benson et. al. It is quite impressive. It does remain to be seen if it is a long-term trend or not (up until recently the statists seemed to be gaining the upper hand, I think).

This may be part of a general trend in the country. Despite the statist trends with Bush and a large hunk of people supporting him, there is an ever-increasing undercurrent of skepticism with government these days.

Good luck to NH folks. I will be watching with interest, from Wyoming.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2003, 05:10:27 am by Zxcv »
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Dave Mincin

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2003, 08:05:08 am »

Actually Zxcv would expect nothing less from you :), but know that you will be welcomed with open arms in NH!
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George Reich

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #35 on: April 28, 2003, 01:26:26 pm »

I don't know that any other governors have been asked.

Well then you pro-WY folks need to ask Wyoming's governor for a meeting with us ASAP. Can't wait to hear the response!
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Robert H.

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #36 on: April 28, 2003, 02:40:50 pm »

I don't know that any other governors have been asked.

Well then you pro-WY folks need to ask Wyoming's governor for a meeting with us ASAP. Can't wait to hear the response!

And precisely why is it that we "need" to do that?

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2003, 07:54:57 pm »

And precisely why is it that we "need" to do that?

To help dispel the persistent rumors that Wyomians do not want us there, of course.
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StevenN

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2003, 08:04:04 pm »

A question for the New Hampsters:

How would you gauge Hampster's feelings on social freedoms. It seems to me this has recently only been talked about in regards to WY's drug policy. Would Hampsters be for at least legalizing medical marijuana or decriminalizing it? Smoking restrictions? Blue laws? How about the death penalty? (not necessarily a libertarian cause, but I'm curious as to what Hampsters think about it) Of course the big one would be eliminating (not civil unions, et al) the state recognition of marriage. Some libertarians might not appreciate this, but I think the latter will face the stiffest resistance from religious conservatives. Go to www.frc.org. The family-idolizing conservatives (a good many of the total) believe that the Family must be subsidized at all costs. The government must be pro-family. I honestly think many of them on the more extreme end would work to make the gov't make life very hard for single parents or two-income households (tax punishments and outright bans). In my opinion, one reason this has happened is because the old "it should be outlawed because it is morally wrong" won't fly anywhere with the general populus. But listen to the family fascists (like Sen. Santorum at http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2003/04/22/national1737EDT0668.DTL Drugs, homosexual activity, pornography, etc. should be outlawed because it supposedly hurts families. What about Joe Bachelor who wants to light up a joint? Well, he has to make a sacrifice. Besides, I don't want my kid to see anybody smoking pot in public because then he'll do it, too! You get the idea, I'll get off my stump.

Oh, and I think the state-wide education funding could actually be a plus for NH. It might make it easier to implement vouchers (short-run) and public funding of education all together (long term). It could be done at the state-wide level instead of trying to get every district to go along. Plus, if the people in a district want to end funding altogether, they could ask to "opt out" of the state system, maybe.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2003, 08:08:28 pm by StevenN »
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Dave Mincin

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2003, 08:56:42 pm »

Hi StevenH

Please let me first say that I am not a NH resident, just a supporter, and don't profess to speak for all the folks in NH.

To institute all the things you speak of in one fell swoop will not be possible anywhere, but likewise nothing can be done until we have some political power somewhere.

Now in NH there is much voter anger over property taxes and the schools.  Freedom loving people are, as we speak organizing and getting elected, forming a base of operations.

I believe we can ride those issues right now and gain much political power, and I can think of nothing more important to the long term sucess of your movement than to break the states control of our education system.  I believe that is possible in NH now.

Within a few short years we can be in a position, perhaps of not total control, but be the power brokers, have enough elected legislators to control the balance of power, and thus begin to have  our programs inacted.

Forgive me for not addressing the specifics of your question, not sure we can really begin to address many of the issues that face us in a meanful was until we have gain some political power.

On a personal level I feel that you should be able to do whatever you want as long as it doesn't hurt me or my loved ones.  Simply put I believe that people are best able to make decisions for themselves, rather than have the government make them for you.

Dave
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StevenN

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2003, 09:21:01 pm »

Hi Dave:

Yeah, that was pretty much just a "wish list". I think social freedoms will be a tougher fight than economic freedoms nearly everywhere.

I'm just curious if the people in NH are more of the "live and let live types" who might be open to more social freedoms. It might be a good way to attract democrats and greens, not just anti-tax republicans. After all, beyond education (which I think is perhaps one of the easier wins) states don't spend much in relative terms (to the federal gov't, that is). Medical care is the other big expenditure (and roads, but I don't think that will be easy to change). How effective the FSP will be in changing that is difficult for me to judge. I should dust off my Public Sector Economics textbook and see what the avg. expenditure breakdown is for states (I'm pretty sure education is the largest by far).
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Dalamar49

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2003, 09:41:43 pm »

In my political science class my teacher said education is the biggest expenditure for states. I know that Nevada spend like 55% of its budget on education.
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StevenN

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2003, 11:37:42 pm »

Composition of state & local expenditures (national avg.)
From the Economic Report of the President, 2000
Data is from 1995

(This info is from a bar chart, so they are my estimates)

Education: 34%
Highways: 6%
Public welfare: 17%
Other: 43%


Expenditures on major needs-tested programs, 1998 (in billions of dollars)
Cash and Noncash Benefits for Persons with Limited Income, Vee Burke

For State and Local Governments

Medical care: $82.6 (72%)
Cash aid: $20.7 (18%)
Food benefits: $2.1
Housing benefits: $2.6
Education (not all gov't schooling expenditures): $1.1
Services: $5.2
Jobs/training: $0.071
Energy aid: $0.064


Some thoughts:
Since these are averages, I'd imagine that education probably makes between 40-50% of expenditures. The number I hear alot is to "reduce the gov't by 2/3rds". Eliminating gov't schools would nearly get us there! The good news is, in both WY and NH, it seems the citizens have nearly had it with the gov't schools. Medical care presents a problem. If we cut regulations and tax-incentives for corporate health insurance, costs could fall by one-half. I think most people would take this deal: eliminate state spending on health care in exchange for massive reductions in costs. The problem is that most of these regulations are federal. BUT, I think that since costs skyrocketed, DC politicians may be willing to let states expirament.
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Robert H.

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2003, 12:21:13 am »

And precisely why is it that we "need" to do that?
To help dispel the persistent rumors that Wyomians do not want us there, of course.

Well, the only thing I'm hearing about Wyomingites not wanting us there is coming from Zack Bass.  Comments from actual Wyomingites seem quite favorable as long as we don't intend on charging in like radicals, which I think will apply wherever the FSP ultimately goes.

Anyway, I don't necessarily believe that consulting with the governor would do anything to either affirm or dispel this notion.  For one thing, he's just one man; for another, he's a minority Democrat governor in a majority Republican state, so it's difficult to tell exactly where most Wyomingites would stand on the issue of the FSP.  I rather imagine it would depend upon what sort of spin they heard about it.

Dave Mincin

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Re:If NH is picked ....
« Reply #44 on: April 29, 2003, 07:51:02 am »

Would agree with your thoughts on the socail issues Steven  Reminds me of what one of the old timers told we when I first got into sales "give the people what they want first, and what they need later."  Think that will be our best course in establishing a free state.

While I have no statistics in front of me to support it, I would guess in the smaller states the education expenditures as a percentage of total spending would be even higher than the numbers you quote.  Certain to reduce or eliminate the state controlled education system would go a long way to reducing the tax burden of the people.

My experience with the NH folks is that they are "live and let live types."  Have been spending some time studying the history of NH since I'm hopeful it will be our new home, and have found that NH has a rich history of individualism and anti-big government feelings ingrained in the culture there.
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