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Author Topic: FSP and Free Talk Live connection  (Read 17997 times)

rossby

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2008, 05:07:39 pm »

Not quite fair B.D.
We're voluntarist. So while we believe that victimless crimes should not (heck could not) exist, others positions exists.


Quite fair! I asked a simple question. Maybe then I will understand what she's saying and why she believes what she does ;)
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Dreepa

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2008, 05:15:43 pm »



In addition, I'm a Catholic libertarian (figure that one out ;D)

actually wasn't there a fairly large Catholic Libertarian movement.. the name is escaping me what they called it and the few 'leaders' of it.
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sj

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2008, 05:32:22 pm »

Lew Rockwell is Catholic
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magentarose

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2008, 05:42:55 pm »



Well, Waco was a result of the Federal government.  There's not much the state can do in that situation, be it in TX or NH. 
true


What the FSP was originally aiming for was a 1/2 to 2/3 reduction in state government, if that gives you an idea of how "extreme" the group as a whole is.

Thank you that totally answers my question and that is a goal I can completely stand behind and work towards.
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Ren

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2008, 06:01:24 pm »

 
Just for fun, let me be the eternal devil's advocate: suppose, as you'd prefer, the Federal government allowed decrim of other drugs on a state-by-state basis if the majority of the state wants to. If a state decriminalizes drugs, you can use them. If not, you go to prison for, let's say, 3 years.

Suppose State A and State B each have 100 people in them and the majority makes the rules. In State A, only 50 people want to criminalize drugs. But in State B, 51 people want to criminalize drugs. So, if you use drugs in State A, you're fine. If you use drugs in State B, you go to prison for 3 years. 

I am really enjoying learning about this group.  It's definitely got me thinking.  Now, on what you said in the quote.  One thing Im concerned about is that if some states legalize all drug use and some don't, won't be be asking for trouble for the states that do.  By this I mean, won't it bring in more and more drug addicts that can get their drugs easily and cause problems for the cities?  Meaning more homeless, needy people. I can see your point of decriminalizing drugs, that it will remove the criminal element., but what about the druggies themselves.  Most aren't the most redeeming citizens.  Most are users.  Using there so called friends and the system (welfare).  I know from what I am saying, as most of my son's friends went down the tubes when they got involved in drugs.  You basically would be bringing this element into your cities.  Also, drug dealers could easily buy the drug in the free states and then sell them in the non free states.  That would be a big problem for the non drug free states.  The only solution I can think of for these problems would be to make it a fed. issue and decriminalize every state - not going to happen.  BTW, I am mainly speaking of hard drugs, not marij.
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sj

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2008, 06:07:09 pm »

Thank you that totally answers my question and that is a goal I can completely stand behind and work towards.

Great!

If you can agree to the statement of intent with a clear conscience, please sign up!
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rossby

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2008, 07:25:35 pm »

 
Just for fun, let me be the eternal devil's advocate: suppose, as you'd prefer, the Federal government allowed decrim of other drugs on a state-by-state basis if the majority of the state wants to. If a state decriminalizes drugs, you can use them. If not, you go to prison for, let's say, 3 years.

Suppose State A and State B each have 100 people in them and the majority makes the rules. In State A, only 50 people want to criminalize drugs. But in State B, 51 people want to criminalize drugs. So, if you use drugs in State A, you're fine. If you use drugs in State B, you go to prison for 3 years. 

I am really enjoying learning about this group.  It's definitely got me thinking.  Now, on what you said in the quote.  One thing Im concerned about is that if some states legalize all drug use and some don't, won't be be asking for trouble for the states that do.  By this I mean, won't it bring in more and more drug addicts that can get their drugs easily and cause problems for the cities?  Meaning more homeless, needy people. I can see your point of decriminalizing drugs, that it will remove the criminal element., but what about the druggies themselves.  Most aren't the most redeeming citizens.  Most are users.  Using there so called friends and the system (welfare).  I know from what I am saying, as most of my son's friends went down the tubes when they got involved in drugs.  You basically would be bringing this element into your cities.  Also, drug dealers could easily buy the drug in the free states and then sell them in the non free states.  That would be a big problem for the non drug free states.  The only solution I can think of for these problems would be to make it a fed. issue and decriminalize every state - not going to happen.  BTW, I am mainly speaking of hard drugs, not marij.

Sjhipple just linked to the FSP Statement of Intent. If you enjoy what you've learned about FSP, maybe you'd like to sign up? ;D

With drug addicts being "not the most redeeming" citizens, I've found in reality, you wouldn't be able to spot most drug addicts out of a line-up. Sure, there are people that really fall off the deep-end or others that revel in drug culture (particularly cannibis, E). But most addicts, you'd never know--or even suspect it. They keep it to themselves--often because the activity is illegal. And whether that kind of secretive behavior is bad, you can be the judge.

Yes, it would be a problem for the drug-ban states because their criminal laws explicitly do make it a problem. If the issue is the "druggies", putting them in prison for 3 years solves nothing (big expense; underlying "problem" unaddressed). Drug addiction is not synonymous with homelessness--though it's certainly known to occur. If the element that's being brought into cities is "people being free to choose what they ingest", I certainly support that. If we want to look at aggregate data, check out the Netherlands' statistics on problem drug use. Not saying a welfare program should support it, but their liberal mindset and focus on treating the individual, would, imho, be a step forward. I would certainly donate money to support that.

As far as the traffic of drugs, that's another tangle of issues. Congress can constitutionally regulate those substances in interstate commerce. Exactly what it says it's doing now. Not very well of course ;)
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Russell Kanning

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2008, 10:56:17 am »

I haven't seen any crack dealers in NH ... but then, I wouldn't know one when I saw one. :)
No crack sold on the streets in my neighborhood. ;D
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Russell Kanning

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2008, 10:57:26 am »

Thanks everyone for being so friendly.
Who's being friendly? We can beat them up.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Russell Kanning

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2008, 10:58:20 am »

I'm a pro-life Christian libertarian.  Yes, we have those in the project  :)
ditto
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Russell Kanning

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2008, 11:09:50 am »

The thing I'm wondering about is how extreme this group is, and even if we aren't all in the same paragraph at least we should be on the same page.

I'll start spending more time reading the messages here instead of the FTL forums.
Some of us in the FSP are very extreme.
Being here will teach you more about the FSP ... the FTLive boards don't even represent FTL.
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The NH Underground - "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -Mahatma Gandhi
New Hampshire Free Press - The Nonviolent Revolution Starts Here

"Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces." -- Etienne de La Boetie, The Politics of Obedience: The Discourse of Voluntary Servitude

Rebel

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2008, 01:10:25 pm »

Lew Rockwell is Catholic
which is why I'm proud to be one 8)
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lloydbob1

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2008, 07:21:09 pm »

I haven't seen any crack dealers in NH ... but then, I wouldn't know one when I saw one. :)
No crack sold on the streets in my neighborhood. ;D

Pssst!
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FTL_Ian

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2008, 09:56:33 pm »

Magenta,

Welcome to the forum.  Thanks for supporting marijuana users being left alone.

Now, here are some questions:

Should MDMA (ecstasy) users and dealers be put in jail?

What if I don't want to pay for keeping the crack dealers in jail and stop paying property taxes in protest - what should happen to me?  Should I also go to jail?  What if I refuse to go?  Will you support the police killing or hurting me?
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freedomroad

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Re: FSP and Free Talk Live connection
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2008, 10:22:03 pm »

What if I don't want to pay for keeping the crack dealers in jail and stop paying property taxes in protest - what should happen to me?  Should I also go to jail?  What if I refuse to go?  Will you support the police killing or hurting me?

Personal property tax is the most fair (still not fair) form of personal tax.  If you want really low property taxes you should vote with you feet and move out of Keene :)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2008, 11:05:58 pm by Keith and Stuff »
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