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[magentarose]

Thanks everyone for being so friendly. I listened to an episode of free talk live and left a message on their message boards. To shorten a long story I basically got beaten up because I think that crack dealers should go to prison. I know that this Free State Project doesn't support any specific political view but if I join something I want to share common views. Would most people in the Free State Project look at me as a bad person for wanting a crack dealer free state?

I am for the legalization of marijuana.

[rossby]

Why crack dealers?

[magentarose]

Why crack dealers?

I don't know, that's what the discussion turned to. Someone used it as an example.

[freedomroad]

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=23855.0

[freedomroad]

Why crack dealers?

I don't know, that's what the discussion turned to. Someone used it as an example.

But why do you think crack dealers should go to prison?  Is it because some crack dealers break their crack with dangerous things to spread the crack out and make more money but do not tell their clients that the crack is not as pure as it was before they split it?

[sj]

magentarose, welcome!

First of all, you're a brave woman going on the FTL BBS.  I don't know if anyone can go on there and not get beat up...pretty rough if you don't have thick skin.

Your subject line is about the connection between the FSP and FTL.  FTL is the FSP's biggest recruiter, and both hosts are FSP members.  The FSP also sponsors ads on FTL.  However, the audience that listens to FTL skews anarchistic and a large number of FSP members aren't anarchists.

You'll find all types of people in the project and we disagree on various policies, but all agree to the statement of intent: That the maximum role of government is to protect life, liberty and property, and should not punish people or reward them for activities that harm no one else.  It's not the government's job to take care of people.  It's proper role is to protect them from aggression.

I recommend coming up to visit during the Liberty Forum this March and meeting us.  I think you'll find that we're a nice, varied, intelligent and accepting group of people.  

Do you want more freedom, magentarose?

[sj]

Btw, I just started reading the BBS thread.  Allow me to answer of few of your posts.

I'm a pro-life Christian libertarian.  Yes, we have those in the project 

Btw, the laws in New Hampshire regarding guns are WAYYY better than Texas'.  I'm serious.  Texas gun laws don't hold a candle to New Hampshire's gun laws.

[magentarose]

Why crack dealers?

I don't know, that's what the discussion turned to. Someone used it as an example.

But why do you think crack dealers should go to prison?  Is it because some crack dealers break their crack with dangerous things to spread the crack out and make more money but do not tell their clients that the crack is not as pure as it was before they split it?

It's not my life's goal to stop crack dealers. It really wasn't anything I thought about before someone used it as an example.

The thing I'm wondering about is how extreme this group is, and even if we aren't all in the same paragraph at least we should be on the same page. I'm just trying to see if this Free State Project is something worth fighting for. It's awesome that the gun laws are more relaxed in NH than in TX. Actually, after I posted that I started thinking about what happened in Waco and realized that TX was a bad example.

I'll start spending more time reading the messages here instead of the FTL forums.

[maxxoccupancy]

magentarose, welcome!

First of all, you're a brave woman going on the FTL BBS.  I don't know if anyone can go on there and not get beat up...pretty rough if you don't have thick skin.

Well, I'm a sailor, myself, so those whale raping donkey f*(&ers don't worry me a bit.  There are tons of anarchists and debatatarians on ftl, so it seems ok as a recruiting tool, but not much else.  Despite the actions of the new Dem majority in Conquered, NH is either the freest, or one of the top five freest states in the US, depending on how you measure it.  It's one of the safest, and for a liberty lover, this is perhaps the best place to be.  Other than FSW, I don't think that there's a welcome wagon of any size anywhere in the country.

I'm also a pro-life Christian libertarian, and there are quite a few of us in the Project who are not "100%."  In fact, we're disproportionately represented amongst the doers.

[Rebel]

More than likely, in a free society (which we seek to create) crack selling would be relegated to your typical drug store. Gangsters couldn't make any money at it and thus crime wouldn't flow from the using or selling of it (unless it was taxed to the point of re-creating the black market). Not to say that some wouldn't try to bake it at home... It just seems to me that crack selling thrives under our current system. However, crack users would probably be ostracized--especially if they're hard-core users. Most drug consumption is manageable for responsible people and those that are irresponsible have the right to self-destruct. And, responsible people tend to know when their habit is spiraling out of control. Bolstering my 2nd pt, Heroin/meth/crack users wouldn't have to steal from people in a free drug market since the cost per high would be next to minimal--unlike today where the prices are like 1700% higher under prohibition.

In addition, I'm a Catholic libertarian (figure that one out )

[JasonPSorens]

Also, neighborhood covenants could be used to keep buying, selling, & advertising of unsavory goods & services of all kinds out of areas where people don't want to be exposed to that kind of thing. No doubt this kind of voluntary (yet government-enforced, at least in the short term) solution would emerge in the absence of a blanket criminal penalty.

[John Edward Mercier]

Thanks everyone for being so friendly. I listened to an episode of free talk live and left a message on their message boards. To shorten a long story I basically got beaten up because I think that crack dealers should go to prison. I know that this Free State Project doesn't support any specific political view but if I join something I want to share common views. Would most people in the Free State Project look at me as a bad person for wanting a crack dealer free state?

I am for the legalization of marijuana.

That would most likely make you a constitutionalist, not a bad thing.

[rossby]

Why crack dealers?

I don't know, that's what the discussion turned to. Someone used it as an example.

I see. I thought it was just a statement about your "hot button" issue.

Looks like a number of them over at FTL were quite rude. Unless you've genocidally slaughtered some Jews and Russians today, let me extend some apologies. But don't think too much of it. For many, lashing out in anger is much easier than educating.

Just for fun, let me be the eternal devil's advocate: suppose, as you'd prefer, the Federal government allowed decrim of other drugs on a state-by-state basis if the majority of the state wants to. If a state decriminalizes drugs, you can use them. If not, you go to prison for, let's say, 3 years.

Suppose State A and State B each have 100 people in them and the majority makes the rules. In State A, only 50 people want to criminalize drugs. But in State B, 51 people want to criminalize drugs. So, if you use drugs in State A, you're fine. If you use drugs in State B, you go to prison for 3 years.

Now, I don't think it's much debated that, generally, a person should not lock up any other person if she is not harming anyone. And that two people, working together, should not lock up another person. Or that three people should not lock someone up. And so on. Most people recognize this as undesirable, aggressive, and quite unneighborly. And even when we get to 50 people deciding that a person should be locked up, we still say that's not a good thing to do.

But, upon reaching that 51st person, this group of people should, morally, be able to imprison someone against her will? None of the people have the right to do it individually. But if the conspiracy becomes large enough, that means it should be acceptable?

[John Edward Mercier]

Not quite fair B.D.
We're voluntarist. So while we believe that victimless crimes should not (heck could not) exist, others positions exists.

[sj]

It's awesome that the gun laws are more relaxed in NH than in TX. Actually, after I posted that I started thinking about what happened in Waco and realized that TX was a bad example.

Well, Waco was a result of the Federal government.  There's not much the state can do in that situation, be it in TX or NH.  Texas just has a lot more restrictions on where you can carry, what you have to do to get a license to carry, and it also doesn't allow open carry.

What the FSP was originally aiming for was a 1/2 to 2/3 reduction in state government, if that gives you an idea of how "extreme" the group as a whole is.