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Author Topic: Vermont  (Read 45390 times)

Zxcv

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2003, 12:47:00 am »

I wonder if there is some way to quantize accessibility to legislative seats in the states, without it being a completely subjective judgement call? I have a feeling Vermont and a couple other states are standouts in this department, and it's a shame we can't factor that into the spreadsheet somehow.

Might make up somewhat for all the effort we'd have to invest in a place like Vermont, digging ourselves out of the statist hole the leftists have so thoughtfully provided.  ;)
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Solitar

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2003, 01:21:52 am »

Zxcv,
I too have tried to figure a way to quantify the legislative data. Each state is so different!
Perhaps the percentage of "accessible seats" -- defined as within five percentage points of a win or, in other words, up to 55% in a two-way race, or 38% in a three-way, or 30% in a four-way.
(now you've added another incentive for me to complete Alaska and thus have all ten states done).

For an absolutely awesome, huge wealth of detailed information for every  city, town, village, grant, and gore...
http://maps.vcgi.org/indicators/
The above source is so addictive to this data junkie that I have to keep trying to focus back on how it applies.
Sheesh!
For each and every of the above it has data on population from the beginning - 1790
education attendance scores
planning and zoning and other plans -- whether they have it or not
and more, and more, and more stuff...
A month's worth of stuff...

And for info on how those towns, grants, and gores came to be
http://all-ancestors.com/vermonttowns/vermont.htm

And for Vermont towns - with hyperlinks (one of which led me to the first site above)
http://www.vermont-towns.org/

Vermont Local Government which includes a wealth of info such as:
*Brief Overview of Selected Town Offices
*What is Town Meeting?
*Open Meeting Law
*Access to Public Records Law
*Vermont Local Government
*Associations
*Running for Local Office (pdf format)
http://www.vlct.org/local.htm

For a pdf file on all the place names that the Vermont Sec'y of State could find
http://vermont-elections.org/elections1/VTPlaceNames.html

And election info
http://vermont-elections.org/elections1/electionstopics.html

And links that I used for the Vermont legislative analysis
http://www.politicsvt.com/
http://www.leg.state.vt.us/legdir/legdir2.htm
http://www.sec.state.vt.us/seek/database.htm
http://www.sec.state.vt.us/results/02ghouse.html.
http://vermont-elections.org/2003BioSketchWeb.pdf
http://vermont-elections.org/elections1/2002gecand.htm
http://www.leg.state.vt.us/reports/02Redistricting/

WHY all this?
Because knowledge of the chosen state gives activists the POWER to effect change
by knowing exactly what the job entails, who's who, demographics, history, etc., etc.
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Zxcv

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2003, 02:04:47 am »

Yeah, Joe, but you know it's a lot more complicated than that. Here are some other factors that affect accessibility:

1) Term limit laws, and whether they've actually been permitted to operate by throwing people out of office (before the courts overrule them, as happened here in Oregon)

2) Primary margins of victory

3) District populations

4) Money spent

5) Multiple seats per district

6) District geography

and on and on. It would be tough to put a number on it.

Maybe another way of looking at it is just plain old turnover, which should more-or-less be the result of all these factors. Or average length of service, something along those lines? Got anything like that? You'd have to look at several election's data though, sounds like a lot of work.   :P
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Kelton

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2003, 02:35:51 pm »

Actually all these posts are pretty much save VT from the leftist.  And vermont has the lowest firearm incident rate in the nation.  Of course the Gun snatchers Rated them a D for thier laws.  What a joke!!! Greg
Actually, even better, Greg, Vermont scored a D- on that report, not just a D as you had thought :)
 

Here's an old news story from Vermont I thought humorous:

Unusual Vermont bill would require registration of all NON-gunowners
Quote from the article:
"If you outlaw not having a gun, only outlaws won't have guns"
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

freedomroad

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2003, 12:51:12 am »

[quote author=exitus link=board=5;threadid=282;start=0#msg18639

Here's an old news story from Vermont I thought humorous:

Unusual Vermont bill would require registration of all NON-gunowners
Quote from the article:
"If you outlaw not having a gun, only outlaws won't have guns"

Quote

If that story is true it hurts VT evermore.
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Kelton

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2003, 01:43:43 am »

Quote
If that story is true it hurts VT evermore.

From reading the article I gather that the Vermont representative presenting the bill is only half serious, mostly using it sarcastically as an educational tool to make people think about the absurdity of the sophism of advocating gun registration.

This demonstrating absurdity by being absurd is similar to the free-trade activist Frederic Bastiat who petitioned the French government in the nineteenth century to block unfair competition coming from sunlight in his "Candlemakers' Petition''


It is interesting to note, however, that a few years ago in the town of Virgin, Utah, they passed an ordinance requiring every family to own a gun.  They did not attempt to enforce the law, and the state recommended that they repeal it, but it made for a lot of publicity (I heard about it on National Public Radio News).
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

freedomroad

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2003, 07:42:06 am »


It is interesting to note, however, that a few years ago in the town of Virgin, Utah, they passed an ordinance requiring every family to own a gun.  They did not attempt to enforce the law, and the state recommended that they repeal it, but it made for a lot of publicity (I heard about it on National Public Radio News).

They also did this in an Atlanta suburb.  They also do not intend to actually collect the fines that many of the families in GA legally owe the government because of this very bad law.  If they tried to collect the fines, the laws would be thrown out by the courts.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2003, 05:08:04 pm by FreedomRoad »
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Kelton

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2003, 12:04:13 pm »

The Free State Project and Property Rights
by Jason Sorens, Keynote address to 2003 annual meeting of Vermont Citizens for Property Rights:

http://www.libertyforall.net/2003/archive/feb16/property.html

From the speech:
In Vermont, we would be entering a more polarized situation, but one with perhaps more possibilities. As everyone knows, Vermont has been trending hard to the left over the last three decades, while pockets of the state remain staunchly conservative. However, the Free State Project could bring Vermonters together by offering a creative synthesis of its values both new and old: a respect for individual liberties and the full Bill of Rights, an emphasis on localism and decentralization, and the use of private, cooperative solutions as an alternative to bureaucratic, governmental methods.
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. . .the foundations of our national policy should be laid in private morality. If individuals be not influenced by moral principles, it is in vain to look for public virtue --The U.S. Senate's reply to George Washington's first inaugural address

Zxcv

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2003, 12:51:26 pm »

Keith, Kennesaw, Georgia is not such a small suburb any more, over 20,000:
http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/default.asp?comp=HTML&Page={5A7956B7-66C8-11D5-8F77-00E0291018DF}&SiteId=35&SessionId=

Their crime is really low, too.  ;)

While the idea of making people pay money, who don't live up to their civil duty to defend themselves, is very satisfying (and a good educational tool, as you say, exitus; a better tack would be to prohibit municipalities from accosting individuals who choose to carry openly. And for leaders to encourage open carry. That would be much more effective.
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Otosan

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Re:Vermont - more reports, articles, stories, data, etc.?
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2003, 02:03:09 pm »

Vermont Senate passes medical marijuana bill
    Marijuana Policy Project

"The Vermont Senate today passed S. 76, the medical marijuana bill,
by a vote of 22-7. In the wake of this resounding endorsement,
supporters are increasingly optimistic about the measure's prospects
for becoming law this year. 'Last year, the Vermont House passed a
nearly identical bill ... the first Republican-controlled state
legislative chamber ever to pass a medical marijuana bill,' said
Billy Rogers, director of state policies for the Marijuana Policy
Project ..." (03/13/03)

http://www.mpp.org/releases/nr031303vt.html
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George Reich

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New Hampshire vs. Vermont
« Reply #40 on: April 07, 2003, 09:32:13 pm »

This comparsion between Vermont and New Hampshire was posted recently on the NHLiveFreeorDie Yahoo group:

"You can say that again, this state (Vermont) needs massive help! But as a Vermonter, I would throw my support behind New Hampshire. First of all, there is much talk here among the citizens of the advantages of NH. Many of us cross the Connecticut to shop because we save sales tax, especially for big ticket items. You'd be amazed how many people drive over 60 miles round trip to do their grocery shopping over in New Hampshire.

Businesses are at such an enormous disadvantage here, they leaving on a daily basis. Burlington lost something like 5000 IBM jobs recently. Several years ago my small business was hit by the VT tax department for $14,000 in past taxes and penalties because we failed to pay a ''Use" tax on free magazines we had printed in New York and distributed free in Connecticut and Massachusetts. Meanwhile, the State of New Hampshire sends us pamphlets on how we could benefit by moving to the Granite State. And they mean it!

As a libertarian I think sexual persuasion is your own business, but you have to face it, gay and lesbian groups tend to be on the big-government end-of-the-spectrum, and Vermont's Civil Union laws have made the state a beacon for these groups. I believe there is already a influx into Vermont that would be hard for the FSP to counter. In some of our small towns there are more gay marriages occurring than traditional ones. Over 100 in Woodstock last year.

I would just like to point out that to those of us who live next door to New Hampshire, the state is already considered a libertarian paradise. There are many, like me, who are definitely leaning to moving there. Check out the thousands who have left Massachusetts for the economic freedom of NH. In liberal New England there are thousands more in Maine, CT and RI who could pull up stakes and not have to move too far to be free. I don't think you'd see a lot of folks in the states surrounding Wyoming motivated to do the same
thing.

While I love the idea of the Free State, I hope the activists realize that there is already a demographic population shift going on: people who want to live-free-or-die move, or want to move, to New Hampshire. Those who believe the government has all the answers take to Vermont. Uh, I mean Vermonters elected Howard Dean as governor, Jim Jeffords and Pat Leahy as Senators; and, last but not least, Bernie Sanders, the Socialist, as our only representative to Congress! Man, I can't believe there is anyone who would want to doom the FSP folks to the hell that has become Vermont"
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George Reich

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Re:New Hampshire vs. Vermont
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2003, 07:48:31 pm »

Comments from another Vermonter:

I would LOVE it if the FSP selected Vermont, because that's where I live - and for a number of reasons, I cannot move to another state. HOWEVER, that being said, having lived here most of my life and worked as a reporter here for many years, I simply do not think Vermont is as favorable a soil to till as New Hampshire. Vermont suffers from leftist pollution. At the urging of Mother Jones Magazine in the 1960s, hundreds, perhaps thousands, of leftists moved here. They have REALLY skewed the politics here to the left, in some cases the very far left. Changing things in the direction of liberty (rather than just fighting a delaying action, which is what most of us here now do) would take an effort akin to turning the Queen Elizabeth.

New Hampshire has already elected some LP members to the state house. A large portion of the indigenous population is inclined toward liberty. Many of those folks who are moving to NH from Mass or other locations further south are doing so in part BECAUSE of this liberty atmosphere. It is no mistake that the state's license plate says "Live Free or Die." While not every resident of the state agrees with that saying, the majority apparently do or it would long since have been expunged from the plates. What a wonderful slogan for the FSP state!
« Last Edit: April 11, 2003, 07:50:52 pm by libertarian40 »
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If everyone were rich there would be no need for government assistance. If everyone were rich all children could attend private schools. If everyone were rich, government would become superfluous. Read the free e-book at this site:

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Rearden

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Re:New Hampshire vs. Vermont
« Reply #42 on: April 22, 2003, 12:41:09 pm »

I have spent at least one week skiing in Vermont every year for over a decade, up in the Northeast Kingdom.  The state is exceptionally beautiful, and the people are very friendly.  When I was last there in January, I called the guy who was renting us the condo, and I asked him how we could get in, and he told me to try the knob.  Crime there is so rare that they don't even lock their doors.

Having said that, in talking to the natives, they generally felt very much held hostage by the socialist invaders.  The "Take Back Vermont" movement was very big in the Northeast Kingdom, and indeed the people seemed to be very libertarian in their approach to life.  Very individualistic.  

If all of Vermont were like the Northeast Kingdom, I would be there right now.  Unfortunately Montpelier is controlled by the socialist invaders to the south, and the natives are very unhappy with some recent developments, such as a new statewide planning effort (argh) and ever increasing taxes.  

In January I asked several natives I see every year what they thought of the FSP, and while they said that they wished us luck, and two even said they may join us, they uniformly shook their heads sadly and said that New Hampshire would be the best choice.  Our landlord said that he was even trying to sell his units so he could move to New Hampshire, as regulations and taxes had made profit difficult in Vermont.
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Michelle

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Re:New Hampshire vs. Vermont
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2003, 08:33:23 am »

There is an interesting Vermont vs. New Hampshire discussion going on here:

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=1686
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jgmaynard

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Re:New Hampshire vs. Vermont
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2003, 10:22:03 am »

"gay and lesbian groups tend to be on the big-government end-of-the-spectrum, and Vermont's Civil Union laws have made the state a beacon for these groups"

Actually, GLB groups were supporters of Michelle and my campaigns in 2000 and 01. I fully expect them to be again.
And civil unions? We can do that! The NH voter would go for it, as long as it didn't raise our taxes! lol...

JM

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