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Author Topic: open carry protests  (Read 105871 times)

NHArticleTen

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #225 on: July 03, 2008, 04:44:50 pm »

Also...why are you telling me what I vote for?  I DO think marijuana should be legalized...I DO think there should be LESS government...I DO think what people do in the privacy of their home should be their business....I AM against helmet and seatbelt laws, etc....!!!
Don't try and guess what my standpoints are...

And yet you seem to think that the cops should be able to harass, steal from, and detain by force anyone they feel like, without just cause.

Yeah, really liberty-minded...

Joe

And to think I used to wonder why libertarians or Ron Paul didn't do better in elections. Your rhetoric is humble and convincing.

If you don't stand for something...you'll fall for anything...



Yes and those who give up essential liberty for temporary secruity deserve neither, the power to tax is the power to destroy,  an armed society is a polite society, yes I've heard all the Libertarian go-to-quips before.  I stand for nuance. I stand for slow meaningful change. My only knee jerk reaction is against kneejerk reactions, my only absolute is against absolutes. Like I said, reality is tougher and complicated than using little quotes to preach liberty to the choir. Maybe I'll violate the non-agression principle or whatever along the way, I don't care. I guess I'm a soft libertarian, but that's alright. In 2 months we can talk it over at Murphs.

Your "slow meaningful change" shit will go right out the window once you've been waterboarded a few times after what you thought was a "tail-light out traffic stop" turns into fun at Gitmo...

Reality is most certainly NOT "tougher" and "complicated"...NOT AT ALL...
Everyone...including you...and all the looters, bureaucrats, jackboots, and mercenaries should cease and desist...
No direct or indirect aggression/force/fraud...
None at all...

Come on...wouldn't you just like to work the job of your choice and give eight hours of labor...and actually get your full eight hours worth of pay!?!
Just say no to aggression/force/fraud and the delusions and illusions of the global gulag prison planet military-industrial complex...

Imagine...
The Philosophically Mature Non-Aggression Principle...it's not just for breakfast anymore...





www.campaignforliberty.com

kelteckiller

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #226 on: July 03, 2008, 05:05:03 pm »

And yet you seem to think that the cops should be able to harass, steal from, and detain by force anyone they feel like, without just cause.

Yeah, really liberty-minded...
And to think I used to wonder why libertarians or Ron Paul didn't do better in elections. Your rhetoric is humble and convincing.

Not voting from the rooftops is pretty darn humble of me, actually.  The "powers that be" have certainly earned it, many times over, with their gross crimes against humanity.

The fact that I am willing to let them continue breathing should be pretty "convincing" that libertarians are committed to doing whatever is realistically possible to find a peaceful solution.

Joe

Seconded...

And not only that...
But...
And I only speak for myself and no one else...
Although I sincerely believe that there are many(as in even one percent would be a million) ready right now...and many more "getting there"...

Who sincerely believe(since the government admits to the indefinite detention of...and torture of...and injury of...and murder of..."some" human beings)...
Sincerely believe that ANY encounter with anyone, in costume or not...might very well end in kidnapping, torture, imprisonment, mutilation, murder, etc...

I've stepped up my observations of all facets of the MSM and I have noted a very marked INCREASE in HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS in the "name" of someone's twisted idea of "justice"...these include, but are not limited to, unwarranted searches and seizures, kidnapping, abuse, torture, imprisonment, mutilation, and murder...

For those of us who see this as a very real possibility, given the aggression/force/fraud of the police state and the military-industrial complex...each and every day may very well be our last...

What a way to live...all courtesy of the looters, bureaucrats, jackboots, and mercenaries...

Hey...you're either with US...or you're with the looters, bureaucrats, jackboots, and mercenaries...all of them are...of course...terrorists...directly and/or indirectly...

And...

Have you ever tried...as you walked down the sidewalk...or driven down the street...to scan ALL the rooftops for those costumed riflemen...

Whew...

Ever wondered why it's against the "law" for non-bureaucrats to wear body armor...

Hey, we're just making the streets and sidewalks safer for you and yours...

Hey, it's for the children...right...


This has been a public service announcement brought to you by your local branch of Blackwater International...
We now return you to your regularly scheduled bread and circuses, beer and football, wine coolers and Amerikan Idol...






-you'regoingtogetwhatyoudeserve-



Not saying you are wrong, but where is the RSA against wearing body armor?  I've never heard that one...especially since you can buy it on e-bay...not that that makes it right
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MaineShark

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #227 on: July 03, 2008, 06:15:18 pm »

"you're willing to let them continue breathing"???  That's bold...

Not really.  For example, I've been armed in the presence of Bush.  If I decided it was worth it, I could have killed him.  True, I likely would not have survived, but anyone with the least bit of skill could pull off an assassination, if he was willing to pay the price for it.

I just don't think it's anywhere near that point, yet.

I'm not sure that's true.  All I've seen is that it's illegal to wear body armor while committing a felony.

Watch the "FBI warning" at the beginning of a rented movie.  Displaying a copyrighted video can be a felony.  There are lots of felonies.  I daresay the majority of Americans are unindicted felons, at this point.

Not saying you are wrong, but where is the RSA against wearing body armor?  I've never heard that one...especially since you can buy it on e-bay...not that that makes it right

For the love of chair... http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/indexes/search.html

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

kelteckiller

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #228 on: July 03, 2008, 06:24:01 pm »

"you're willing to let them continue breathing"???  That's bold...

Not really.  For example, I've been armed in the presence of Bush.  If I decided it was worth it, I could have killed him.  True, I likely would not have survived, but anyone with the least bit of skill could pull off an assassination, if he was willing to pay the price for it.

I just don't think it's anywhere near that point, yet.

I'm not sure that's true.  All I've seen is that it's illegal to wear body armor while committing a felony.

Watch the "FBI warning" at the beginning of a rented movie.  Displaying a copyrighted video can be a felony.  There are lots of felonies.  I daresay the majority of Americans are unindicted felons, at this point.

Not saying you are wrong, but where is the RSA against wearing body armor?  I've never heard that one...especially since you can buy it on e-bay...not that that makes it right

For the love of chair... http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/indexes/search.html

Joe

It probably isn't wise to talk about a time that you could have assassinated the president if you wanted to online...Just lettin ya know...

And it's not illegal to wear body armor...it's just an enhanced penalty if using it while committing a felony...so don't copy your DVD's with armor on!
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kelteckiller

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #229 on: July 03, 2008, 06:25:11 pm »

"you're willing to let them continue breathing"???  That's bold...

Not really.  For example, I've been armed in the presence of Bush.  If I decided it was worth it, I could have killed him.  True, I likely would not have survived, but anyone with the least bit of skill could pull off an assassination, if he was willing to pay the price for it.

I just don't think it's anywhere near that point, yet.

I'm not sure that's true.  All I've seen is that it's illegal to wear body armor while committing a felony.

Watch the "FBI warning" at the beginning of a rented movie.  Displaying a copyrighted video can be a felony.  There are lots of felonies.  I daresay the majority of Americans are unindicted felons, at this point.

Not saying you are wrong, but where is the RSA against wearing body armor?  I've never heard that one...especially since you can buy it on e-bay...not that that makes it right

For the love of chair... http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/indexes/search.html

Joe

It probably isn't wise to talk about a time that you could have assassinated the president if you wanted to online...Just lettin ya know...

And it's not illegal to wear body armor...it's just an enhanced penalty if using it while committing a felony...so don't copy your DVD's with armor on!

I've been armed in the presence of Bush too...Not the president of course tho!  :P
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MaineShark

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #230 on: July 03, 2008, 06:33:48 pm »

It probably isn't wise to talk about a time that you could have assassinated the president if you wanted to online...Just lettin ya know...

Why?  The Secret Service agents certainly knew I was armed, and therefore knew that I could have done so.  If they weren't worried, why are you?

And it's not illegal to wear body armor...it's just an enhanced penalty if using it while committing a felony...so don't copy your DVD's with armor on!

No, it's illegal to wear body armor.  Just not all the time.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

kelteckiller

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #231 on: July 03, 2008, 06:49:07 pm »

It probably isn't wise to talk about a time that you could have assassinated the president if you wanted to online...Just lettin ya know...

Why?  The Secret Service agents certainly knew I was armed, and therefore knew that I could have done so.  If they weren't worried, why are you?

And it's not illegal to wear body armor...it's just an enhanced penalty if using it while committing a felony...so don't copy your DVD's with armor on!

No, it's illegal to wear body armor.  Just not all the time.

Joe

Joe,
Please don't ever confuse my statement for me showing concern.  I could careless what you do...I mean that sincerely.  With that being said, one should take responsibility for their own actions...I would think that is a common ground between us.

I would really like to see where you are getting that it is illegal to wear body armor...I really disagree with ya there...I think it is illegal if you are committing a felony...Someone can walk down the street with it on though...
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MaineShark

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #232 on: July 03, 2008, 07:10:32 pm »

With that being said, one should take responsibility for their own actions...I would think that is a common ground between us.

I do take responsibility for my own actions.  I do not take responsibility for your - or anyone else's - irrational reactions.

And no, there is not common ground on that, since you seem to think that cops don't have to take responsibility for their actions.

I would really like to see where you are getting that it is illegal to wear body armor...I really disagree with ya there...I think it is illegal if you are committing a felony...Someone can walk down the street with it on though...

By your repeated requests to "show you the law" here, it's clear that you aren't familiar with the laws in NH.  If you were walking down the street here, how would you know whether or not you were committing a felony of some sort?  Not to mention Federal felonies, and I doubt you're any more familiar with the US Code than you are with the NH RSA's.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

rossby

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #233 on: July 03, 2008, 07:58:57 pm »

With that being said, one should take responsibility for their own actions...I would think that is a common ground between us.

I do take responsibility for my own actions.  I do not take responsibility for your - or anyone else's - irrational reactions.

And no, there is not common ground on that, since you seem to think that cops don't have to take responsibility for their actions.

I would really like to see where you are getting that it is illegal to wear body armor...I really disagree with ya there...I think it is illegal if you are committing a felony...Someone can walk down the street with it on though...

By your repeated requests to "show you the law" here, it's clear that you aren't familiar with the laws in NH.  If you were walking down the street here, how would you know whether or not you were committing a felony of some sort?  Not to mention Federal felonies, and I doubt you're any more familiar with the US Code than you are with the NH RSA's.

Joe

Can someone cite to the law or not? I'd be curious to see it too; whether it's a crime or a sentencing "enhancement".
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MaineShark

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #234 on: July 03, 2008, 08:37:16 pm »

Can someone cite to the law or not? I'd be curious to see it too; whether it's a crime or a sentencing "enhancement".

Um, did you notice where I posted the search link?

You type "body armor" in that, and it pulls up the statute.

It's RSA 650-B for those who are two lazy to click a link, type two words, and click "search."

And yes, it is a separate crime - a class B felony, with the additional provision that the sentence cannot be served concurrently with any other other sentence.

In other words, if you were to video-tape a cop beating up a random pedestrian for the heck of it, and were wearing body armor at the time, you would be facing 14 years in prison.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

sj

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #235 on: July 03, 2008, 08:51:41 pm »

Can someone cite to the law or not? I'd be curious to see it too; whether it's a crime or a sentencing "enhancement".

Um, did you notice where I posted the search link?

You type "body armor" in that, and it pulls up the statute.

It's RSA 650-B for those who are two lazy to click a link, type two words, and click "search."

And yes, it is a separate crime - a class B felony, with the additional provision that the sentence cannot be served concurrently with any other other sentence.

In other words, if you were to video-tape a cop beating up a random pedestrian for the heck of it, and were wearing body armor at the time, you would be facing 14 years in prison.

Joe

That's complete nonsense.  Body armor is completely legal.  Next question.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 08:55:01 pm by sjhipple »
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kelteckiller

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #236 on: July 03, 2008, 10:39:50 pm »

With that being said, one should take responsibility for their own actions...I would think that is a common ground between us.

I do take responsibility for my own actions.  I do not take responsibility for your - or anyone else's - irrational reactions.

And no, there is not common ground on that, since you seem to think that cops don't have to take responsibility for their actions.

I would really like to see where you are getting that it is illegal to wear body armor...I really disagree with ya there...I think it is illegal if you are committing a felony...Someone can walk down the street with it on though...

By your repeated requests to "show you the law" here, it's clear that you aren't familiar with the laws in NH.  If you were walking down the street here, how would you know whether or not you were committing a felony of some sort?  Not to mention Federal felonies, and I doubt you're any more familiar with the US Code than you are with the NH RSA's.

Joe

Can someone cite to the law or not? I'd be curious to see it too; whether it's a crime or a sentencing "enhancement".

I have been saying for a while that it is a sentencing enhancement...I am asking for the law because I can't find something that does NOT exist...THat is why I am saying SHOW ME...it is not my ignorance
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kelteckiller

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #237 on: July 03, 2008, 10:40:49 pm »

Can someone cite to the law or not? I'd be curious to see it too; whether it's a crime or a sentencing "enhancement".

Um, did you notice where I posted the search link?

You type "body armor" in that, and it pulls up the statute.

It's RSA 650-B for those who are two lazy to click a link, type two words, and click "search."

And yes, it is a separate crime - a class B felony, with the additional provision that the sentence cannot be served concurrently with any other other sentence.

In other words, if you were to video-tape a cop beating up a random pedestrian for the heck of it, and were wearing body armor at the time, you would be facing 14 years in prison.

Joe

AMEN!

That's complete nonsense.  Body armor is completely legal.  Next question.
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MaineShark

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #238 on: July 03, 2008, 11:59:48 pm »

In other words, if you were to video-tape a cop beating up a random pedestrian for the heck of it, and were wearing body armor at the time, you would be facing 14 years in prison.
That's complete nonsense.  Body armor is completely legal.  Next question.[/quote]

Um, no, actually it's not.

As I said, if you were to videotape a cop beating up a random pedestrian, you would be committing a class B felony (RSA570-A).  If you were wearing body armor while doing so, you would be subject to a separate class B felony charge, time to be to served consecutively with your time from the 570-A violation (RSA650-B).

For a total time of 14 years, if you got the maximum sentence on each charge.

You don't exactly have to be committing a murder, or even doing anything remotely immoral, to trigger that particular law.

And it is not a sentencing enhancement.  It is a separate statute.  They do not have to be able to convict you of the original felony, to convict you under 650-B.

For example, let's say that you were stopped and searched for some legally-allowable reason, and they found that you were carrying a quantity of "amateur pharmaceuticals," and wearing armor.  Let's further imagine that sometime prior to trial, they corrupt the drug case, and the judge throws it out.  Since the original felonious action (carrying certain drugs) can be proven (pursuant to a lawful search), you can still be charged and convicted under 650-B, even though the original case was thrown out.

A sentencing enhancement just adds a penalty if you are convicted.  For example:
Quote
637:11 Penalties. –
    I. Theft constitutes a class A felony if:
       (a) The value of the property or services exceeds $1,000, or
       (b) The property stolen is a firearm, or
       (c) The actor is armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the theft, except that if the deadly weapon is a firearm, he shall be sentenced in accordance with RSA 651:2, II-g.
    II. Theft constitutes a class B felony if:
       (a) The value of the property or services is more than $500 but not more than $1000, or
       (b) The actor has been twice before convicted of theft of property or services, as a felony or class A misdemeanor, or
       (c) The theft constitutes a violation of RSA 637:5, II(a) or (b), or
       (d) The property or services stolen are from 3 separate business establishments within a 72-hour period.
    III. Theft constitutes a misdemeanor if the value of the property or services does not exceed $500.

Notice that stealing a firearm is a class A felony, due to the nature of the property that was stolen.  That's a sentencing enhancement.  You have to be convicted of the actual theft, for the enhancement to take effect.  The same is not in any way true of 650-B - you can be convicted on that charge, regardless of whether you were convicted of the original felony.

Joe
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"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

kelteckiller

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Re: open carry protests
« Reply #239 on: July 04, 2008, 08:15:20 am »

In other words, if you were to video-tape a cop beating up a random pedestrian for the heck of it, and were wearing body armor at the time, you would be facing 14 years in prison.
That's complete nonsense.  Body armor is completely legal.  Next question.

Um, no, actually it's not.

As I said, if you were to videotape a cop beating up a random pedestrian, you would be committing a class B felony (RSA570-A).  If you were wearing body armor while doing so, you would be subject to a separate class B felony charge, time to be to served consecutively with your time from the 570-A violation (RSA650-B).

For a total time of 14 years, if you got the maximum sentence on each charge.

You don't exactly have to be committing a murder, or even doing anything remotely immoral, to trigger that particular law.

And it is not a sentencing enhancement.  It is a separate statute.  They do not have to be able to convict you of the original felony, to convict you under 650-B.

For example, let's say that you were stopped and searched for some legally-allowable reason, and they found that you were carrying a quantity of "amateur pharmaceuticals," and wearing armor.  Let's further imagine that sometime prior to trial, they corrupt the drug case, and the judge throws it out.  Since the original felonious action (carrying certain drugs) can be proven (pursuant to a lawful search), you can still be charged and convicted under 650-B, even though the original case was thrown out.

A sentencing enhancement just adds a penalty if you are convicted.  For example:
Quote
637:11 Penalties. –
    I. Theft constitutes a class A felony if:
       (a) The value of the property or services exceeds $1,000, or
       (b) The property stolen is a firearm, or
       (c) The actor is armed with a deadly weapon at the time of the theft, except that if the deadly weapon is a firearm, he shall be sentenced in accordance with RSA 651:2, II-g.
    II. Theft constitutes a class B felony if:
       (a) The value of the property or services is more than $500 but not more than $1000, or
       (b) The actor has been twice before convicted of theft of property or services, as a felony or class A misdemeanor, or
       (c) The theft constitutes a violation of RSA 637:5, II(a) or (b), or
       (d) The property or services stolen are from 3 separate business establishments within a 72-hour period.
    III. Theft constitutes a misdemeanor if the value of the property or services does not exceed $500.

Notice that stealing a firearm is a class A felony, due to the nature of the property that was stolen.  That's a sentencing enhancement.  You have to be convicted of the actual theft, for the enhancement to take effect.  The same is not in any way true of 650-B - you can be convicted on that charge, regardless of whether you were convicted of the original felony.

Joe
[/quote]

Holy crap...

OK...It is NOT illegal to JUST wear body armor...say you are petting kittens at a pet store...committing NO crimes and you have body armor on...that is LEGAL...if you are committing a FELONY and wearing BODY ARMOR it is an E N H A N C E D   P E N A L T Y.  The act of actually wearing body armor is not illegal
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