Free State Project Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 ... 26   Go Down

Author Topic: open carry protests  (Read 106078 times)

MaineShark

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5044
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #60 on: June 15, 2008, 08:01:54 pm »

Sure everyone speeds.  It is not necessarily breaking the law though.  As I previously stated, I go above the posted speed limit, but it is a speed I feel is reasonable for the conditions that exist.  It is very subjective...

Nope.  65 is the max.  No speed above that is considered "reasonable and prudent," according to the law.  Anything in excess of 65 is, prima facie "unreasonable," according to the law.  http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xxi/265/265-mrg.htm

As far as it being "unacceptable behavior", I would say that officer that stopped Lauren felt that her speed was not reasonable for the conditions that existed. If it wasn't the case, she should have brought it before a judge to argue her side as to why her speed was reasonable...

Why should she have to do that?  She was minding her own business, when she was attacked by someone.  How does that place any obligation on her?

Joe
Logged
"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

kelteckiller

  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #61 on: June 15, 2008, 08:05:21 pm »

Sure everyone speeds.  It is not necessarily breaking the law though.  As I previously stated, I go above the posted speed limit, but it is a speed I feel is reasonable for the conditions that exist.  It is very subjective...

Nope.  65 is the max.  No speed above that is considered "reasonable and prudent," according to the law.  Anything in excess of 65 is, prima facie "unreasonable," according to the law.  http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xxi/265/265-mrg.htm

As far as it being "unacceptable behavior", I would say that officer that stopped Lauren felt that her speed was not reasonable for the conditions that existed. If it wasn't the case, she should have brought it before a judge to argue her side as to why her speed was reasonable...

Why should she have to do that?  She was minding her own business, when she was attacked by someone.  How does that place any obligation on her?

Joe

First of all, I KNOW 65 IS THE MAX!!!!!

Secondly, I don't know how fast she was going, but the officer thought it wasn't a reasonable speed.  If she thought it was, you bring it before a judge to mediate the issue...That's the system.  If you don't like the system, get a seat in the house and change it.

It's all good...
Logged

John Edward Mercier

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6534
  • Native
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #62 on: June 15, 2008, 08:06:28 pm »

Tolls go to pay for turnpikes. Registration has two parts the first goes to the State... the second to the municipality to help pay for the cost of road maintenance.

Yeah, those few dollars really pay for the roads... ::)

Your life is inherent (not granted from society)... your right to life is not.

Rights are inherent in being human.  No one can "grant" a right.

Joe

Few dollars? Along with the gas tax, its quite a bit.
Rights can not be inherent... if they were they could not be removed without consent. Your life, liberty, property can be taken without your consent.
Freedom of will (conscious) can not be removed without consent.
Logged

MaineShark

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5044
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2008, 08:10:48 pm »

First of all, I KNOW 65 IS THE MAX!!!!!

So, you know that's the max, and you were breaking the law.  Explain yourself.  You said that was unacceptable behavior, when others did it...

Secondly, I don't know how fast she was going, but the officer thought it wasn't a reasonable speed.

So?  I think it's unreasonable when folks drive slower than 65mph on the highway.  Can I threaten them and then drag them off in chains?

If she thought it was, you bring it before a judge to mediate the issue...That's the system.  If you don't like the system, get a seat in the house and change it.

Why?  I didn't agree to that system.  No one said, "sign here if you agree to these rules."  I doubt anyone asked Lauren, either...

Joe
Logged
"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

MaineShark

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5044
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2008, 08:13:06 pm »

Few dollars? Along with the gas tax, its quite a bit.

No adding in the gas tax.  We were talking about registration and license fees, only.

Rights can not be inherent... if they were they could not be removed without consent. Your life, liberty, property can be taken without your consent.

Just because something can be damaged or destroyed, does not mean it does not exist.  I can damage or destroy your car.  Are you going to claim that means your car is imaginary?

Freedom of will (conscious) can not be removed without consent.

Sure, it can.  A few drugs, and a bit of torture and rewards, and you'll say whatever is desired, and believe it, too.  Look up Stockholm Syndrome, for a minor example.

H. sapiens is not a rational animal - he is a rationalizing animal, and his thought processes can easily be modified.

Joe
Logged
"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

kelteckiller

  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2008, 08:15:46 pm »

First of all, I KNOW 65 IS THE MAX!!!!!

So, you know that's the max, and you were breaking the law.  Explain yourself.  You said that was unacceptable behavior, when others did it...

Secondly, I don't know how fast she was going, but the officer thought it wasn't a reasonable speed.

So?  I think it's unreasonable when folks drive slower than 65mph on the highway.  Can I threaten them and then drag them off in chains?

If she thought it was, you bring it before a judge to mediate the issue...That's the system.  If you don't like the system, get a seat in the house and change it.

Why?  I didn't agree to that system.  No one said, "sign here if you agree to these rules."  I doubt anyone asked Lauren, either...

Joe

I never said I was going above 65.  I said I was speeding.  I didn't elaborate on my speed. I thought you would know I was talking of a back road.

As far as driving slower than 65 on the highway, they can go slower than 65, but not slower than 45.  It is not safe.  People would be coming up too quick on someone going 35-40.  That is why there is a minimum speed on the highways...

As far as the court system, like I said before.  Lobby it, run for a seat, change the laws.  I say go for it.  You sound passionate.  Run a campaign and let your voice be heard.  Don't sit behind a computer and tell me.  Tell everyone in the right forum.  I think things are fine, so I will type in here! ;-)
Logged

MaineShark

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5044
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2008, 08:20:29 pm »

I never said I was going above 65.  I said I was speeding.  I didn't elaborate on my speed. I thought you would know I was talking of a back road.

Yeah, I'm sure you've never driven in excess of 65mph on the interstate.  I'll believe that if you buy this oceanfront property that I have for sale in Conway...

As far as driving slower than 65 on the highway, they can go slower than 65, but not slower than 45.  It is not safe.  People would be coming up too quick on someone going 35-40.  That is why there is a minimum speed on the highways...

Nope, I think anything less than 65mph is unreasonable.  Can I drag them off in chains?

As far as the court system, like I said before.  Lobby it, run for a seat, change the laws.  I say go for it.  You sound passionate.  Run a campaign and let your voice be heard.  Don't sit behind a computer and tell me.  Tell everyone in the right forum.  I think things are fine, so I will type in here! ;-)

Why do I care about words on paper?  You're the one who seems to think that words on paper have some sort of magical power.

Joe
Logged
"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

kelteckiller

  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2008, 08:24:26 pm »

I never said I was going above 65.  I said I was speeding.  I didn't elaborate on my speed. I thought you would know I was talking of a back road.

Yeah, I'm sure you've never driven in excess of 65mph on the interstate.  I'll believe that if you buy this oceanfront property that I have for sale in Conway...

As far as driving slower than 65 on the highway, they can go slower than 65, but not slower than 45.  It is not safe.  People would be coming up too quick on someone going 35-40.  That is why there is a minimum speed on the highways...

Nope, I think anything less than 65mph is unreasonable.  Can I drag them off in chains?

As far as the court system, like I said before.  Lobby it, run for a seat, change the laws.  I say go for it.  You sound passionate.  Run a campaign and let your voice be heard.  Don't sit behind a computer and tell me.  Tell everyone in the right forum.  I think things are fine, so I will type in here! ;-)

Why do I care about words on paper?  You're the one who seems to think that words on paper have some sort of magical power.

Joe

The law allows you to drive less than 65...and if the cop thinks it is unreasonable, he will write me a ticket.  If I disagree with the ticket I will go to court.  I won't get arrested because I have a valid license, registration, and inspection.

Also, I never said I don't go above 65.  I speed all the time. If I get stopped and I was speeding, I take responsibility for MY actions.  I chose to speed, I chose to disregard the rules.  If the cop writes me, I deal with it.  I am an adult and take responsibility for my conscious decisions...
Logged

margomaps

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 708
  • I'm a llama!
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2008, 08:28:35 pm »

Also, I never said I don't go above 65.  I speed all the time. If I get stopped and I was speeding, I take responsibility for MY actions.  I chose to speed, I chose to disregard the rules.  If the cop writes me, I deal with it.  I am an adult and take responsibility for my conscious decisions...

Isn't that exactly what you complained about Lauren Canario doing?  She chose to drive without a license and registration, and she dealt with it.  She spent three months in prison for it.  So why again were you complaining about her tactics, when you just affirmed the same basic ethos?
Logged

MaineShark

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5044
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2008, 08:30:22 pm »

The law allows you to drive less than 65...and if the cop thinks it is unreasonable, he will write me a ticket.  If I disagree with the ticket I will go to court.  I won't get arrested because I have a valid license, registration, and inspection.

I didn't ask about a cop.  I want to chain up anyone who behaves unreasonably, in my opinion.  Then drag them away and toss them in a cage.  Are you implying that I'm not allowed to do that, but some other individual or group of individuals is?

Also, I never said I don't go above 65.  I speed all the time. If I get stopped and I was speeding, I take responsibility for MY actions.  I chose to speed, I chose to disregard the rules.  If the cop writes me, I deal with it.  I am an adult and take responsibility for my conscious decisions...

Ah, but you said that breaking the law is never acceptable...

It is a law.  Whether you agree with it or not, you don't just ignore it.  You go for a seat in the House of Representatives and change it, you lobby people, put signs up, etc.  You don't just ignore it and do whatever you want.  I have never smoked pot.  I think it should be legal...I am not going to smoke it just because I want to though...

You "just want to" go faster than 65mph on the highway.  So you do it.  You ignore the law and do what you want.

Joe
Logged
"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

kelteckiller

  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 110
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #70 on: June 15, 2008, 08:32:58 pm »

The law allows you to drive less than 65...and if the cop thinks it is unreasonable, he will write me a ticket.  If I disagree with the ticket I will go to court.  I won't get arrested because I have a valid license, registration, and inspection.

I didn't ask about a cop.  I want to chain up anyone who behaves unreasonably, in my opinion.  Then drag them away and toss them in a cage.  Are you implying that I'm not allowed to do that, but some other individual or group of individuals is?

Also, I never said I don't go above 65.  I speed all the time. If I get stopped and I was speeding, I take responsibility for MY actions.  I chose to speed, I chose to disregard the rules.  If the cop writes me, I deal with it.  I am an adult and take responsibility for my conscious decisions...

Ah, but you said that breaking the law is never acceptable...

It is a law.  Whether you agree with it or not, you don't just ignore it.  You go for a seat in the House of Representatives and change it, you lobby people, put signs up, etc.  You don't just ignore it and do whatever you want.  I have never smoked pot.  I think it should be legal...I am not going to smoke it just because I want to though...

You "just want to" go faster than 65mph on the highway.  So you do it.  You ignore the law and do what you want.

Joe

Never said Never...

Also, I would love for you to drive around and chain whoever you want up.  Seriously, do that!  I would laugh...
Logged

MaineShark

  • FSP Participant
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5044
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #71 on: June 15, 2008, 08:35:46 pm »

Never said Never...
It is a law.  Whether you agree with it or not, you don't just ignore it.  You go for a seat in the House of Representatives and change it, you lobby people, put signs up, etc.  You don't just ignore it and do whatever you want.  I have never smoked pot.  I think it should be legal...I am not going to smoke it just because I want to though...

Looks like you did.  I don't see any "except" in there, so you are saying that it is never acceptable.

Also, I would love for you to drive around and chain whoever you want up.  Seriously, do that!  I would laugh...

Well, you seem to think it's perfectly acceptable behavior, right?

Joe
Logged
"An armed society is a polite society" - this does not mean that we are polite because we fear each other.

We are not civilized because we are armed; we are armed because we are civilized..

John Edward Mercier

  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6534
  • Native
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #72 on: June 15, 2008, 08:50:55 pm »

Few dollars? Along with the gas tax, its quite a bit.

No adding in the gas tax.  We were talking about registration and license fees, only.

Rights can not be inherent... if they were they could not be removed without consent. Your life, liberty, property can be taken without your consent.

Just because something can be damaged or destroyed, does not mean it does not exist.  I can damage or destroy your car.  Are you going to claim that means your car is imaginary?

Freedom of will (conscious) can not be removed without consent.

Sure, it can.  A few drugs, and a bit of torture and rewards, and you'll say whatever is desired, and believe it, too.  Look up Stockholm Syndrome, for a minor example.

H. sapiens is not a rational animal - he is a rationalizing animal, and his thought processes can easily be modified.

Joe
Licensing fees don't go to the highways. Tolls go to the turnpikes... and a portion of registration goes to the Department of Safety - Division of Motor Vehicles with the other portion going to the municipality to offset road maintenance expenses.  Exactly how the municpality expends them is a matter of locality.

Not imaginary... not inherent. The destruction of my car represents the destruction of my labor... and thus a period of my life... but my car is not inherent to my life.

If H.sapiens are irrational... then how can logic be inherent to the human condition?
Logged

rossby

  • Director of Development
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4801
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #73 on: June 15, 2008, 08:57:07 pm »

then how can logic be inherent to the human condition?

Inherent is probably too strong a word there. ;D
Logged

rossby

  • Director of Development
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4801
Re: open carry protests
« Reply #74 on: June 15, 2008, 09:14:24 pm »

Rights are inherent in being human.  No one can "grant" a right.

Joe

People are granted rights all the time. Every time you enter a contract, new rights are created; others may be extinguished.

As I've hounded on many of these threads, you're using a nomenclature that the world-at-large does not use. It would greatly facilitate discussion if you define what you're talking about when you say "right".
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 ... 26   Go Up