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[jrod]

To me, the enemies of liberty aren't the Manchester PD, or the state of NH but the folks in DC.

The enemies of liberty are all those who think it is ok to use "someone else's money" to do or get what they want. DC is a reflection of that;  local and state government is a reflection of that. Enlightenment can happen many ways and many places.

Cathleen

So you are gonna go to small town New Hampshire and tell them that their school house and firehouse and policemen are the products of thievery for generations and they are enemies of liberty? Don't you think you are gonna run into problems telling people this?

Sorry, I happen to think that the more local the government, the better chances the spending isn't wasteful, especially in New Hampshire, when the school board members/general court rep is your neighbor.

Well yes I suppose it is "nicer" to stick a gun in a mans face and demand he pay for
the fire house that is near him rather than say some tanks in Korea. But really not that much nicer, now is it.
 

Look, the situation doesn't conform easily to your philosophy. Reality usually isn't distilled into ideology so easily. Fact is, you have to pick and choose your battles. I'd rather take on bigger injustices than the local schools, firemen or the public transport. But I'm a pragmatist like that. I'd vote for a peaceful "socialist" like Kucinich or Nader over someone like Barr any day of the week.

But, thank you to Error and Dreepa for pointing me towards NHLA.

[gadsdenflag]

First of all, I apologize for speaking incorrectly.  I was making statements off of memory.  I was wrong and I do sincerely apologize.  I still disagree though.  Lauren did not JUST speed and not speak to the officer.  She didn't have a license and a registration.  It is a law.  Whether you agree with it or not, you don't just ignore it.  You go for a seat in the House of Representatives and change it, you lobby people, put signs up, etc.  You don't just ignore it and do whatever you want.  I have never smoked pot.  I think it should be legal...I am not going to smoke it just because I want to though...

The other people were "stranded" on the side of the road on their own accord.  The police officer politely asked them if they had someone that could come down and give them a ride.  They chose to not say anything.  The cop can't just give her car to someone that doesn't own it....  Stop making victims out of people who are making their own bed.

Listen, some of my "facts" were HIGHLY distorted due to me going off of memory of something I watched a while back, but my bottom line stands.  I really think FSP needs to reevaluate their method of dispersing their message.  FSP is coming off as a bunch of gun toting whackos.  I KNOW this isn't the case, but if you ask the majority of the people outside the group, that is what they think.

The only reason I think you guys need to seriously address that is because of the effectiveness of your message.  As I stated in the beginning, I think you guys have some GREAT standpoints, I don't agree with how you put it out there.  I think if you changed strategy a little you would get more people on your side and probably get some good changes in this state.  I don't think that is harsh criticism...I have a tough time getting across what I am trying to say, but I hope this came off as helpful and not attacking....

By this logic Rosa Parks should have moved to the back of the bus, and sought a seat on the city counicl?  Better yet, Franklin and his peers should have hopped the pond and bought their way into the parliament?

LOL

[Pat K]

To me, the enemies of liberty aren't the Manchester PD, or the state of NH but the folks in DC.

The enemies of liberty are all those who think it is ok to use "someone else's money" to do or get what they want. DC is a reflection of that;  local and state government is a reflection of that. Enlightenment can happen many ways and many places.

Cathleen

So you are gonna go to small town New Hampshire and tell them that their school house and firehouse and policemen are the products of thievery for generations and they are enemies of liberty? Don't you think you are gonna run into problems telling people this?

Sorry, I happen to think that the more local the government, the better chances the spending isn't wasteful, especially in New Hampshire, when the school board members/general court rep is your neighbor.

Well yes I suppose it is "nicer" to stick a gun in a mans face and demand he pay for
the fire house that is near him rather than say some tanks in Korea. But really not that much nicer, now is it.
 

Look, the situation doesn't conform easily to your philosophy. Reality usually isn't distilled into ideology so easily. Fact is, you have to pick and choose your battles. I'd rather take on bigger injustices than the local schools, firemen or the public transport. But I'm a pragmatist like that. I'd vote for a peaceful "socialist" like Kucinich or Nader over someone like Barr any day of the week.

But, thank you to Error and Dreepa for pointing me towards NHLA.

Reality is reality it does not have to be distilled into any thing.
The reality is Government is force, nothing more and nothing less,
when this is forgotten bad things happen.

I glad you found out about the NHLA I am for all peaceful means
for rolling back government.

I just don't kid myself about what government is and won't
moderate my tone for those to delicate for the truth.

[margomaps]

So being a firebrand libertarian revolutionary is going to get you out of it? Or do you mean, we have to start revolting with guns and the like?

I might be cynical, but I still believe in the system.

Plenty of FSPers are using the political process to make change, with some success. If that's what appeals to you, there are plenty of ways to get involved.

Very true.  Someone mentioned this earlier, but I think it bears repeating/rephrasing yet again: the FSP is not represented by the opinions of the few visiting these forums.  Some in the FSP are hardcore NAP/anarchist types (arguably over-represented on the forums), some are heavily involved in the various political processes, and many others fall somewhere inbetween.  If the statement of intent appeals to you, you can almost certainly find a like-minded group of FSPers to help you work toward liberty your way and at your pace.

[J’raxis 270145]

"concessions and compromise"

Are what got us to were we are now.

But Chris is right, plenty of different opinions amongst
them their Free Staters.

 

So being a firebrand libertarian revolutionary is going to get you out of it? Or do you mean, we have to start revolting with guns and the like?

I might be cynical, but I still believe in the system.

I believe in using the system to dismantle itself.

Oh, and welcome.

[J’raxis 270145]

Look, the situation doesn't conform easily to your philosophy. Reality usually isn't distilled into ideology so easily. Fact is, you have to pick and choose your battles. I'd rather take on bigger injustices than the local schools, firemen or the public transport.

Indeed, an incrementalist strategy is how we got into the mess we’re in, and it’s the way to get us out. Roll back the worst abuses of government before tackling the things that far too many people accept as good.

All in good time…

[NHArticleTen]

Look, the situation doesn't conform easily to your philosophy. Reality usually isn't distilled into ideology so easily. Fact is, you have to pick and choose your battles. I'd rather take on bigger injustices than the local schools, firemen or the public transport.

Indeed, an incrementalist strategy is how we got into the mess we’re in, and it’s the way to get us out. Roll back the worst abuses of government before tackling the things that far too many people accept as good.

All in good time…

Optimistic thinking at best...
The neighbor who had your compromise yesterday...to "allow" them to walk into your home to "borrow" a cup of sugar "every so often"...
Today walks in and needs that hundred dollar bill in your sock drawer to pay their utility bill...hey it's for the children...you don't mind do you...

Looters DO NOT take "no" for an answer...they just look for another "way"...
When all the "compromisers" are fed up with "compromising"...the looters still "need" their loot and booty...
Then the looters aren't so "compromising" and "nice" anymore...
They then turn to the bureaucrats, jackboots, and mercenaries and the tyranny of the mob-mentality "majority"...to get what they want...

That's pretty much where we are "at" right now...

How's that working for ya...

Still...I support Ron Paul in his continued efforts to awaken the masses(www.campaignforliberty.com)...
After all, his message just might keep your hands out of my pockets...

At least for awhile...

Go figure...




-Rand was right-

[MaineShark]

Here you have a native NHer who agrees with your sentiments coming to offer you advice and you spit in his face.

No, we have some random Internet troll who may or may not live anywhere near NH, who came here to spit in our face.  And who clearly does not agree with our "sentiments," if he thinks that liberty is only for having but never using, that cops should be above the law, and such.

Don't alienate the two groups you need most, people who already live there and people who want to move. Build consensus for change, don't just take a bunch of small feel good actions that win you no support on the community.

Your notion of "consensus" seems to be that we do whatever they say.  That's not consensus.

I guess my point is just that if your devotion to open-carry is making people mad, it might be worth toning down or doing it different, as killetnic noted.

My ethnic background makes some people mad.  Should I pretend I don't have Jewish blood from half my family?

If the point of this project is real change in the name of liberty, then concessions and compromise might have to be made. To me, the enemies of liberty aren't the Manchester PD, or the state of NH but the folks in DC. I'd prefer to be part of something that aims to hit the IRS and the Mil-INDUS complex, not just keeping seatbelt laws off the books and making sure we can carry our guns to county fairs.

The only reason that the government is as big as it is, is because individuals think that guns don't need to be carried and, potentially, used.  George Washington should have gone to the gallows, along with the rest of the Federalist traitors.  But your philosophical predecessors talked some irate farmers out of that notion, and got us in the mess we're in today.  Appeasement is never a workable strategy, in the long term.

Joe

[cathleeninnh]

To me, the enemies of liberty aren't the Manchester PD, or the state of NH but the folks in DC.

The enemies of liberty are all those who think it is ok to use "someone else's money" to do or get what they want. DC is a reflection of that;  local and state government is a reflection of that. Enlightenment can happen many ways and many places.

Cathleen

So you are gonna go to small town New Hampshire and tell them that their school house and firehouse and policemen are the products of thievery for generations and they are enemies of liberty? Don't you think you are gonna run into problems telling people this?

Sorry, I happen to think that the more local the government, the better chances the spending isn't wasteful, especially in New Hampshire, when the school board members/general court rep is your neighbor.

It may be easier to live with a neighbor who doesn't want to pay for the firehouse, but if he never considers force wrong, he will continue to send reps to DC and Concord to do his bidding. You will spin your wheels trying to deal with the big picture while the force of everyone's neighbor keeps feeding the fire.

Cathleen

[jrod]

Well, you guys got your opinions and I got mine. I don't think the "idealism versus pragmatism" debate is going away anytime soon. Perhaps we can discuss at Murphys, which brings me to my next topic...

I just signed up for the "Next 1000" pledge. I'm gonna work some good hours the next few months, maybe get a transfer to the "greater Manchester area" and hopefully be up for the next round of elections.

Do you guys know how long one must be a resident to vote there? And how many porcs have moved in?

[Dreepa]

Well, you guys got your opinions and I got mine. I don't think the "idealism versus pragmatism" debate is going away anytime soon. Perhaps we can discuss at Murphys, which brings me to my next topic...

I just signed up for the "Next 1000" pledge. I'm gonna work some good hours the next few months, maybe get a transfer to the "greater Manchester area" and hopefully be up for the next round of elections.

Do you guys know how long one must be a resident to vote there? And how many porcs have moved in?

To be a resident to vote?  I think it is immediate.
I believe about 300 porcs have moved.  And at least 10-20 more that moved to NH because of the FSP but never joined and then there are the 100s of natives who welcomed us.

[kelteckiller]

Well, you guys got your opinions and I got mine. I don't think the "idealism versus pragmatism" debate is going away anytime soon. Perhaps we can discuss at Murphys, which brings me to my next topic...

I just signed up for the "Next 1000" pledge. I'm gonna work some good hours the next few months, maybe get a transfer to the "greater Manchester area" and hopefully be up for the next round of elections.

Do you guys know how long one must be a resident to vote there? And how many porcs have moved in?

As soon as you can prove TO THE MAN  that you live here i.e. mortgage, electricity bill, rental agreement, you can vote. 

[MaineShark]

As soon as you can prove TO THE MAN  that you live here i.e. mortgage, electricity bill, rental agreement, you can vote.

Not really.  A very large percentage of the voters in our elections are from neighboring states and Canada, crossing the border and voting illegally.

Joe

[jrod]

As some fellow sign wavers told me on primary day "Just go say your last name is smith or wilson and you could probably vote".

I'll take small shenanigan vote fraud over diebold corporate kickback type any day.

[kelteckiller]

As soon as you can prove TO THE MAN  that you live here i.e. mortgage, electricity bill, rental agreement, you can vote.

Not really.  A very large percentage of the voters in our elections are from neighboring states and Canada, crossing the border and voting illegally.

Joe

OK...To vote LEGALLY...that is the process