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[rossby]

Discussing is when you add things to a conversation.  Even just saying, "hey, I agree with this" is of value.

Your posts here have pretty much been nothing but trolling.

Strange. I had pegged you as the troll.

But if all we can do is resort to ad hominem attacks and fallacious argumentation, I don't think we'll ever go anywhere.

[emphasis added]

Is that a royal "we," there?
[/quote]
Of course not.

[MaineShark]

Strange. I had pegged you as the troll.

Yeah, that's a sensible claim.  The individual who is actually living in NH, who was a "freestater" before Sorens even came up with the notion, and who is actively working for liberty is the troll.  But the individual who just showed up and does nothing but troll threads, who doesn't live here, and who hasn't contributed anything to the cause of liberty... is not.

But if all we can do is resort to ad hominem attacks and fallacious argumentation, I don't think we'll ever go anywhere.

[emphasis added]

Is that a royal "we," there?

Of course not.

Seems to be, since you are clearly referring to your own behavior.

Joe

[JasonPSorens]

They just seem to be absorbed with these Internet debates, while the doers in NH largely have much more... reasonable views.

As opposed to you, who lives where, precisely?

As opposed to non-doers, including, it appears, you. I'm a doer in NY.

[J’raxis 270145]

They just seem to be absorbed with these Internet debates, while the doers in NH largely have much more... reasonable views.

As opposed to you, who lives where, precisely?

As opposed to non-doers, including, it appears, you. I'm a doer in NY.

And we’re all doers actually in New Hampshire.

[Dreepa]

And we’re all doers actually in New Hampshire.

That all word is pretty big.
J you are a doer.... not ALL who moved are doers.

[Dreepa]

I am an 80%... FSchimdt you can move to NH.. I will help you move in.  Concord might be a town  you are looking for.  You can walk and it is still 'rural' enough.

Concord is pretty noisy.  I worked there for a while.  Lots of barking dogs and loud stereos.

Depends on the section of Concord.
Concord still has farms.
Concord has 'suburban area'.
Concord has a mini downtown.
Concord is central to get to most parts of the state.

I like Concord's main street.
I don't live in Concord.

[J’raxis 270145]

And we’re all doers actually in New Hampshire.

That all word is pretty big.
J you are a doer.... not ALL who moved are doers.

True. We’ve had our share of people move and then drop off the face of the earth.

But in context, I was talking about all of the people Jason keeps ragging on (myself, MaineShark, Powerchuter) for spending too much time debating and arguing on the forum.

[MaineShark]

They just seem to be absorbed with these Internet debates, while the doers in NH largely have much more... reasonable views.

As opposed to you, who lives where, precisely?

As opposed to non-doers, including, it appears, you. I'm a doer in NY.

Doing what?  Becoming less libertarian?  Arguing against property rights at every turn?  Arguing that it's okay to aggress against individuals if you "need" to?

"Do" much more, and you'll be a Republican.

Other than writing up an idea that numerous individuals had had before, and getting folks interested in it, what have you actually "done?"  Believe me, I'm glad that the FSP exists, but all it actually did was speed up the inevitable.  Folks are moving to NH for liberty, without ever hearing of the FSP.  They've been doing it for years.  They'll be doing it for years to come.

Personally, aside from actually living liberty here in NH and helping out with such things, I've used writing on various forums as a tool to convert several dozen individuals to the cause of liberty, including some who started out as just about as pro-government as you can get.  I've helped at least a few dozen more already-liberty-minded individuals to further solidify their beliefs (favorite recent quote was "I never knew I was an anti-Federalist!"), a good number of whom have moved here, and several more of whom are planning moves in the next few years.  If I stopped right now, and only the people who are currently here, or seriously talking about moving here actually moved, I think the total comes to about three dozen individuals.

So, other than this anti-property-rights book you keep harping about (hardly a pro-liberty bit of work), what are you actually "doing?"

Joe

[Russell Kanning]

Actually, I’m still one of the people who think we can help move these “almost-there libertarians” in the right direction toward voluntaryism…

We can all try to not hurt other people and instead actually help them ... no matter how pure we are right now.
We can influence anyone with the way we live our lives.

Isn't the bigness of the FSP tent decided by the SOI and mission statement? If people agree with that, then they belong in the FSP.

[Russell Kanning]

Is Jason really doing that much bad stuph to you Joe?

Some of us actually had to move out of our way to come to NH. It is not that easy for some people.

Jason has some time to get here .... wait a minute ... didn't you sign the 1st 1000 pledge Jason? Then I guess we will see you really soon.

[NHArticleTen]

And we’re all doers actually in New Hampshire.

That all word is pretty big.
J you are a doer.... not ALL who moved are doers.

True. We’ve had our share of people move and then drop off the face of the earth.

But in context, I was talking about all of the people Jason keeps ragging on (myself, MaineShark, Powerchuter) for spending too much time debating and arguing on the forum.

"True. We’ve had our share of people move and then drop off the face of the earth."

Does that mean that they are not doing anything!?!

Are some passing judgment on movers who choose to relocate here and "do their own thing"!?!

Isn't "doing our own thing" what this whole "leave everyone else alone thing" is all about...

and...

as far as J, Joe, and Pchuter "debating"...

those three have been present at many more events than the Sorcerer dud...

Personally, I could care less if Harry Potter Jr. goes back to the Dark Side...

We've already shown what we can do sans sorcerer...

Amanda and Jason have had their 15min...

Go figure...

RAD

Enjoy!

[MaineShark]

Is Jason really doing that much bad stuph to you Joe?

If he's going to accuse others of doing nothing, I want to know what standing he has to make such an accusation.

As I said, I'm glad that the FSP started, because it sped up the process of moving liberty-lovers here.  But it was an already-existing process, not something he created.  If he's not simply being a hypocrite, then he had better be able to describe that he's done for liberty...

The fact is, from where I'm sitting, all of the individuals that he is maligning, directly or indirectly, have done more than he has.

Some of us actually had to move out of our way to come to NH. It is not that easy for some people.

Few things worth doing are easy.

Joe

[margomaps]

Isn't the bigness of the FSP tent decided by the SOI and mission statement? If people agree with that, then they belong in the FSP.

Yes, by definition.  But even in the simple words of the SOI, there seems to be significant room for interpretation.  Someone who agrees with the maximum role of government being the protection of "life, liberty, and property", might think that government-managed health care is OK under the SOI.  Because after all, health care involves the protection of life (ignoring for a moment the evidence that government-managed health care does so rather poorly).  If the person sees a conflict in the SOI, he might resolve the conflict by choosing the lesser of two evils.  For example, take "health care is the protection of life" vs "government-managed health care implies disrespect for property via taxation".  Someone could say, "Ok, Medicare is violating the property part of the SOI, but its (supposed) protection of life trumps that; life is more important than property (money)."

I would strongly disagree with that person's viewpoint on the matter, but it certainly seems possible that people will interpret the SOI differently.  Witness the fairly large number of "80%-ers" that pop up on the forums.  And as we know, those on the forums represent a tiny fraction of those not on the forums.

[John Edward Mercier]

Take the time to educate.
Its not like the FSP could stop someone from moving here.

[margomaps]

Take the time to educate.
Its not like the FSP could stop someone from moving here.

Agreed!