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Author Topic: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?  (Read 20924 times)

TheRothbardian

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2008, 09:48:17 am »

It is fantastic to see so many of my generation taking the stand and moving for freedom. Moving to New Hampshire for a lot of people means giving up a whole lot but in the long run we will be gaining immensely.
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MercuryLime

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2008, 11:15:31 am »

believe it or not, there ARE people out there who will befriend you just to take advantage of you(at a minimum) and a rare few that might even do you bodily harm, injury, or death...

I don't want to accept other people's advice on this. The only way I'll ever learn NOT to get taken advantage of is to get some real world experience. Do you really think if I went from eating establishment to eating establishment in a town, offering 1-4 hours of work in exchange for a meal, and sleeping a few hundred feet from the highway, that it would not work? I have a pocket knife for self-defense. I think I can talk my way out of most random violent encounters. And the chance that I'm going to randomly get shot is pretty slim.

I value my life more than anyone else, but I would rather get killed while living a life of my own choosing than live a safe, boring life doing what I'm told.

I'd imagine things would be much better for you all around if you had your parent's blessings.  Are you able and willing to fill us in a little on why you don't think they would approve of you going someplace where you will already have hundreds of wonderful friends(sincere friends, not the users and looters you're probably used to if you went to the public fools indoctrination centers)...

I haven't told them about NH; that would make it easier for police to find me. All I've said is I'm leaving home and traveling the country (going east.) My parents have told me the same thing: wait until I have their blessing. They're main problem is the dangerous aspect of being a underaged hobo, talking to strangers, and trying to make money as I go. They would prefer that I save up some money first and turn 18.

I honestly can't wait that long. My life is pathetically average right now; I live in a great neighborhood at and go to a public school; everything is safe and totally restrictive. I do not enjoy the life I have right now because my parents are so constrictive of me--not allowing me to spend the night at friends' houses without advance notice, forcing me to go to church, refusing to tolerate my morals or ideology (did I mention they're catholic?).

I'm scared of death, scared of offending people and scared of being myself (due to years of negative programming.) I have tried to fight this inner battle from the "safe" county I live in, but the only way my brain will really get that I need to conquer my fears is by putting myself out into the real world.

So I don't have my parents' blessing because they think I'm their responsibility and they don't understand how much this means to me. It's not a matter of miscommunication; they honestly think they know what's best for me and they don't care about what I want.

"Harboring a runaway" is a misdemeanor (from what I understand,) and I don't want to get anybody in trouble with the law. So my current plan is to, well, be a hobo this summer, and after a couple months, decide what to do from there.

Thanks for all the responses!
« Last Edit: April 27, 2008, 11:19:40 am by MercuryLime »
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chimney

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2008, 12:47:39 pm »

How long is it til you're 18? I'm 22 so I do understand what you're going through. Luckily I had more understanding and non-religious parents but they still attempted (well, still attempt) to control me under the guise of caring about me. They honestly do want what's best for you but end up doing more harm than good. View them like socialists and treat them the same way!

I know life is immensely frustrating when you just want to get out and feel horribly trapped but if you can do this legally it will be better for you. I can't legally get into the US at the moment. I could illegally overstay a holiday visa but at any time immigration could come along and kick me out and I'd never be able to enter the US again. Sometimes waiting is best no matter how frustrating. If 18 is the age you can legally leave in your state then get a job (Preferably one where they'll make you work Sundays so you can't go to church!) and save plenty of money. That way you'll be able to get yourself a car and when you turn 18 you can drive to New Hampshire and you'll have a decent amount of cash to pay the rent til you find a job.

Also think what your parents will go through if you just disappear. They won't know whether you're alive or dead and will go through absolute hell. I know from first hand experience what it's like to have someone you love go missing, even for just a few hours. You do not want to put your parents through that, no matter what you may gain from it. It's pure torture.

Of course it's your choice but if you can hang in there til your 18th birthday I'd strongly recommend doing so. That way you can leave legally with or without your parents' blessing, you won't have to worry about the government kidnapping you and taking you back to them, and you won't have the hell you would be putting them through on your conscience like you would if you just went missing.

NHArticleTen

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2008, 04:38:05 pm »

I was in your shoes when I was young.  Interesting...

Do what you want, see you when you get here...


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MercuryLime

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2008, 04:44:47 pm »

Of course it's your choice but if you can hang in there til your 18th birthday I'd strongly recommend doing so. That way you can leave legally with or without your parents' blessing, you won't have to worry about the government kidnapping you and taking you back to them, and you won't have the hell you would be putting them through on your conscience like you would if you just went missing.

Thanks chimney. I have a cell phone, so I will not just be "going missing." I will probably even check my facebook every once in a while. I'm an only child so my parents will take it badly, but I've been desensitizing them to it by talking about it frequently.

I have ten months left until I'm 18. Running away is not a major crime; getting caught would just be a setback. The only reason to wait would be to get my parents' "blessing," which would be nice but I'm not going to let it rule my life.

The questions is: Would traveling throughout America for two months as a hobo be worth the risks? I think so, but I'm still doing research.

I hope you get into the US eventually man!

P.S. I have pretty much decided that once I turn 18 (or get emancipated,) I'll come to New Hampshire. Until then, I'll just travel around.
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NHArticleTen

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2008, 04:48:09 pm »


Also, you should be aware that each post on this forum is monitored by local, state, and federal law enforcement authorities...

I wouldn't be surprised at all if your parents get a visit from someone...

I would expect at the well-informed and experienced age of 17 you'd already know these things...



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J’raxis 270145

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2008, 04:55:15 pm »

If you have a cell phone, you won’t be “going missing” at all, because those can be tracked by law enforcement.
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rossby

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2008, 06:32:22 pm »

Merc,

I don't want to accept other people's advice on this.

I'm not trying to lecture you. This is a friendly forum after all :) And no one here is going to gang up on you or tell you what you absolutely must do. We don't want anything from you, so we have nothing particularly valuable to gain in this. Rather, most of us are either trying to understand your situation or impart some knowledge. Many of us have been in similar situations (and I think you're presenting a few different situations that are being talked about) so we're trying to explain various aspects that you may not have considered--or don't want to consider. The latter being the more dangerous.

Collectively, we have a lot of experience. And many different perspectives on the world. And people rarely seem to agree to much on this forum. So far though, there seems to be a consensus that the hobo-ing part of your plan isn't the best. Personally, I agree. I think it would be prudent to determine what's more important to you: (1) the hobo'ing part, or (2) moving to NH.

The only way I'll ever learn NOT to get taken advantage of is to get some real world experience. Do you really think if I went from eating establishment to eating establishment in a town, offering 1-4 hours of work in exchange for a meal, and sleeping a few hundred feet from the highway, that it would not work? I have a pocket knife for self-defense. I think I can talk my way out of most random violent encounters. And the chance that I'm going to randomly get shot is pretty slim.

I think that this will be harder than you think. First, and generally, it's illegal for business owners to randomly hire people this way. There's federal and state tax paperwork that needs to be filed. They'll need to see proof that you can legally work in the U.S. The employer will probably need to pay into his state's workers comp fund. Employing anyone, ever is an enormous hassle--it is, without a doubt, the most time-consuming, over regulated, over-taxed, and litigous part of owning a business. --Most business owners won't care. Now, I'm not saying rules don't get bent or broken. They do. But you would need to bank on always being able to find some charitible types. Growing up in the midwest myself, folks tend to be a bit kinder. But they're spread over a huge area. And if you get turned away from a few businesses in an area, there's a pretty high chance that someone's going to report a young vagrant in the area and the local sheriff will mosey his way on out to find you. And this only covers food. You'll still need clothes. Something to sleep in. And don't forget about protecting yourself from the weather. A pocketknife as a defensive weapon is more of an annoyance than a serious threat. The main physical threat is that you will be hungry and you will do/believe things you might otherwise not do/believe for food. Not to mention that hitchhiking and trespassing on private property are crimes... well, I'm really beating a dead horse on this one.  Just... do the math.

I think it would be wise if you decided what is more important to you: hobo'ing or moving to NH. If the latter is more important, you probably need to sit down and make a plan. In a previous post you said you didn't know what the next few months would bring. Part of self-ownership is that you get to decide what the next few months bring. If you're really intent on moving out there, I'd expect that you'd be looking for places to stay, places you can work for money, saving some cash, talking to people out there/building a support network, and just getting your stuff organized. So you have to make some sacrifices--living in an environment you don't like. It's a short-term cost for a long-term gain. Even then, what are your plans when you get to New Hampshire?

I haven't told them about NH; that would make it easier for police to find me. All I've said is I'm leaving home and traveling the country (going east.) My parents have told me the same thing: wait until I have their blessing. They're main problem is the dangerous aspect of being a underaged hobo, talking to strangers, and trying to make money as I go. They would prefer that I save up some money first and turn 18.

Since you haven't explained to them completely what you want, I think it's a exceptionally reasonable (and fair) response for them to think they know what's best for you--if only because they think you're demonstrating that you don't know what's best. Stand in the shoes' of some hypothetical parents for a moment, and try to imagine how they might feel without complete information. After all, the State of Kansas says they're responsible for your safety and well-being. But if you've got your heart set on moving, there's nothing anyone can realistically do to stop you. So take the time to explain these things while you can.

I honestly can't wait that long. My life is pathetically average right now; I live in a great neighborhood at and go to a public school; everything is safe and totally restrictive. I do not enjoy the life I have right now because my parents are so constrictive of me--not allowing me to spend the night at friends' houses without advance notice, forcing me to go to church, refusing to tolerate my morals or ideology (did I mention they're catholic?).

I don't want to write a long thing on "proper parenting". But some of these things your parents can't actually stop you, unless they physically restrain you. I'm not saying, "Don't obey your parents." Just that, if you can't go to a friends' without giving notice, and you really wanted to, who's to stop you? More likely, you have some fear of the resulting punishment. In reality, is this requirement so unreasonable? It's courtesy to let family know where you are in case they need to get ahold of you. Your parents probably wouldn't fly to Italy for a weekend without letting you know they'd be gone and how to get ahold of them.

The religion one--in the grand scheme of things--is much easier. Fundamentally, unless they've got a gun to your head, they can't make you go. And even then... ... Anyway, they can give you hell; mock you; create a big stink; try to guilt trip you. If they go so far as to physically harm or compel you, that's a separate issue for the law to deal with. Regardless, you'll be an adult soon: you need to decide how important this issue is to you.

I haven't told them about NH[.]

...

It's not a matter of miscommunication[.]

These are your own words--and I agree. It's not a matter of miscommunication: it's NON-communication. You may wish to start with communication first. Even if you think it won't be effective. But this hitting the road business just doesn't sound responsible, healthy, or productive to your long term goals.
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rossby

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2008, 06:35:23 pm »

Well you don't have to make it out like an earth shattering event...
I'm actually a wonderful chap...

I know you are ;D
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NJLiberty

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2008, 06:48:31 pm »

I have ten months left until I'm 18. Running away is not a major crime; getting caught would just be a setback. The only reason to wait would be to get my parents' "blessing," which would be nice but I'm not going to let it rule my life.

I understand completely what you are going through. I considered doing the same thing when I was your age,  but I would advise you to wait for several reasons. The main reason to wait is that it sounds like you are woefully unprepared for this journey. The time when you could wander from town to town doing odd jobs for food is long since gone. If you are going to strike out on your own you need to have enough money to at least get you where you want to be, and then have enough money to get set up there. Your parents aside, you would be better served by biding your time, getting a job and saving up enough money to make the trip. Ten months is a very short time in a man's life. If the situation at home and locally isn't liberty friendly, then spend the time reading and learning, and spend time learning from the folks here and on the other forums.

The long and the short of it is that you don't want to start your independent life looking over your shoulder all day long wondering if today is the day you are found and sent back home. The others on here are right as far as your phone being able to be traced, your picture and description being shot across the country, and the internet being monitored. If I were you I would wait. I did and I am glad I did. I still got what I wanted, just a little later than I wanted.

George

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MercuryLime

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2008, 09:57:49 pm »

I am really amazed at the amount of understanding / positive feedback I am getting. I'm very relieved. :)

The point I am trying to make is that all my life, people have been telling me what I can and can't do. A lot of people on this forum have told me that it's nearly impossible to travel city-to-city and work for food. Maybe that's true... But that's something I'm not willing to accept until I experience it myself. I don't think the federal government has intruded into our lives so much that one can't trade a simple meal for a few hours of odd jobs. I'll have about $100 in case of emergencies. If I was a store owner, I wouldn't report a polite stranger to the sheriff if he was honestly offering labor for a meal. I've looked up how to deal with the police so even if I get questioned, I'll be honest about my name and I'll refuse to answer any question about my age.

I plan on doing a test run here in my current city and surrounding cities (combined population of about 300,000.) If things don't work out, I'll come up with another plan.

As for making money: this fall, I plan to create some web applications and to make money through dealing with advertisers. My long range plan is to get a career in journalism and to produce videos on the side.

I think it would be prudent to determine what's more important to you: (1) the hobo'ing part, or (2) moving to NH.

Ultimately, NH is more important, but they aren't mutually exclusive. At the worst, hobo'ing for two months would set me back two months of saving to move.

It's not a matter of miscommunication: it's NON-communication. You may wish to start with communication first. Even if you think it won't be effective. But this hitting the road business just doesn't sound responsible, healthy, or productive to your long term goals.

Hey, my parents and I are actually pretty close, differences in beliefs aside. Just because I don't mention the state I plan on living in eventually doesn't mean I'm not communicating with them. My parents probably have a better idea of what I'm doing than anyone else, because (to their horror) I talk about it constantly.

The reason I want to do this hobo thing is to prove to myself once and for all that I have what it takes to survive without the charity of others.

Additionally, I am a pretty shy guy. Although I have come a long way in the past few years, I still have trouble starting conversations with strangers, yelling or singing or dancing in public, and feeling comfortable with myself in a group. I totally obsess about social skills but I have been stuck for the past few months because I just can't get myself to take action. Becoming a hobo forces me out of my comfort zone, which is a major goal of mine.

B.D. Ross, your posts have helped me gain a better since of perspective on this. Thanks.
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chimney

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2008, 04:24:56 am »

Obviously it's going to depend on your parents' personalities but have you considered telling them you're abandoning the hoboing idea and will be moving to NH the day after your 18th birthday? I reckon that will remove most of the fear they'll have because if I was a parent and my kid said they were going to be a vagrant for 2 months it would certainly bother me. If, on the other hand, they told me they were moving to another state in 10 months and wanted to enjoy the remaining time we had together I'd want to spend as much time with them as possible doing fun stuff. You could even get them to come with you to check out rooms to rent and possible jobs before you move, and with a proper job in your town in Kansas they could see your savings building up and know you'd be able to support yourself when you get to NH.

NHArticleTen

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2008, 07:38:37 am »

I am really amazed at the amount of understanding / positive feedback I am getting. I'm very relieved. :)

The point I am trying to make is that all my life,

And the point that we're trying to make is that "all YOUR life" is...17 years...
And the point that we're trying to make is that, quantitatively, just the folks responding to you have hundreds of years of first and second-hand experience...
Also, you should understand that many more young people READ these forums...how do you think we would react if we knew you were female?
How would you feel if you were in our shoes?  If you were female?  If you were us, knowing you were a female?
Then consider that, in these trying times we live in, there are many(including some priests...and sheriffs, go figure) that abuse and rape men and women...

Quote
The reason I want to do this hobo thing is to prove to myself once and for all that I have what it takes to survive without the charity of others.

"Survive without the charity of others"??
Perhaps it's not directly "charity" but you ARE going to be asking people to bend some "rules" and break some others...
You are asking people whom you don't know...and they don't know you...to bend and break "laws"...
The authorities routinely try to entrap people with all sorts of schemes...they try to trap prostitutes, "johns", underage cigarette sales, underage alcohol sales, drug buyers, drug sellers, "illegal" immigrants, employers who hire "illegals", employers hiring children, employers hiring "day laborers", etc.

So you ARE asking...or INTEND to ask quite a few strangers to trust that you are not "johnny law"...that you are not a petty thief...that you are not a serial killer...

YOU have a very naive world-view and this is what we DO know...and you THINK you know otherwise...

Our intention is NOT to control you or your existence...just to give you the facts and the realities that you're going to have to face, someday, whether you like it or not...

Have you been in contact with the other FSP members in your area?
I'd be very surprised if there were none...you might find that there are quite a few...

One more thing, young gentleman, I have five daughters the youngest two being your age...so...
I understand YOUR situation because I have actually lived it...
I also understand your PARENTS situation because I have lived that too...

A friend of mine has a website that lists some good books, movies, and materials for freedom lovers everywhere...check it out...

Here's some links, the pages are long and he's included so much information it's overwhelming for sure...

http://www.losthorizons.com/homeschool/reading_recommendations.htm

Near the bottom of the Newsletter page is a movie list...

http://www.losthorizons.com/Newsletter.htm


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rossby

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2008, 10:20:03 am »

Chimney's last quote summarizes what I was trying to say--without being long and rambling.

Quote
The reason I want to do this hobo thing is to prove to myself once and for all that I have what it takes to survive without the charity of others.

We're born into this world completely helpless. And we do require charity from others to survive at least until adolesence--and even then, most people aren't equipped, mentally or physically, to survive without other people. Even into adulthood, most people don't know how to survive on their own. You really can't get away from it: humans are largely social creatures--because it enhances their ability to survive.

If you mean survival in the social sense of the word--independence from other people--you can do that whenever you want. It's just a matter of you deciding what you need to stand for. If you mean survival in the hunter-gatherer sense, you'd probably do much better off to learn some basic survival skills: plant identification, etc.

Other than that, I think I've said everything important that needs to be said. Probably more than once. So, be smart. And good luck regardless :)
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NHArticleTen

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Re: 17 and ready to move -- but can I legally?
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2008, 07:14:51 am »


Ok Mr. Hobo across amerika...

Do your thing but stay away from the smiley face gang...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352960,00.html



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