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[lastlady]

I know this is off topic for the subject line. But following this thread, is college really all about making money. That certainly is not the reason I went to school, but I suppose this is what most people go for is to get a job and earn money.

But is this the sole purpose of "getting" an education?

It is. Read John Taylor Gatto’s books on the public school systems; he talks about the true purpose of modern colleges in there, too. It’s not about getting “an education” anymore: Universities are “engines of economic growth” and it’s all about producing useful (employable… useable) skilled workers for the system.

Well all I can say for me this is not the case, although I did benefit financially after I graduated, it could be said I would have anyway. I did not go to school to earn more money or "get" a career. I went to study and be in an environment that fostered me to do so. If I had went to school to earn more money or get a career, I wouldn't have decided to work on an opticle printer, or work with 16mm film instead of digital, or work with a number of things that were / are are relics of the past.





 

[rossby]

College is a scam. 

In the past, the peasants were kept in line through lifelong, and hereditary, debt.

That’s not legal anymore. So now the system just convinces most Americans to indebt themselves, at least for a significant portion of their life, by the time they turn eighteen. And of course by the the student loans are paid off, most Americans have a mortgage… or endless credit card payments… or an expensive health crisis… or…

Ever wonder why student loans are one of the only debts—they might even be the only debt—that can’t be vacated by a bankruptcy filing?

Mark Twain has a great quote (or at least it's attributed to him): "I've never let my schooling interfere with my education."

I went to a 4-year college. It was very expensive. Not a day goes by that I don't seriously regret spending the money. My alumni office contacted me this year, asking me to contact some prospective students: tuition started at $45,000 per academic year for 2008. Yikes, eh?

College is sold to unwitting teenagers as something that is necessary to get a good-paying job. Sure college graduates, on average do make more. But you need to factor in the sunk costs of attending school.And it is about making money--but largely for the institutional lenders. It's a very safe investment.

Unfortunately, a bachelor's degree is often legally required to pursue careers you may have interest in (e.g., law, medicine).

Just another note, as I ramble on mindlessly--as I seem to be doing a lot lately--you can get school debt wiped out in bankruptcy. It's just very hard to do.

[Dreepa]

My degree has nothing to do with what I do for a living.
I learned lots in college.... that had nothing to do with my degree.
Some places won't hire without a degree.

Also the 4 out of 5 that are college dropouts.... all went to college.

But back to the topic... yes there are at least 5 houses that I can think of that are 'FSP houses' of many 'singles' living together.
Some move in for a few months and then move out on their own.  Some don't.

[VinceSinclaire]

I love how far off this discussion went
But well, when we move in early oh nine,
we'll definitely be looking. we'll be happy for any help and to help.
dont know where we're moving to yet in NH, but i guess it depends on what all we can find, huh?
^_^

~Trist.

[techforumz]

All right, then with all this talk of whether college is worth it... Is it possible for one to succeed without one? And correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't college more about that paper than about actually learning? I learn more on the internet than at school, WAY more. They don't teach the difference between SDR and DDR SDRAM, the difference between an ARM x86, 6502, x86-64, EM64T, etc... In college they probably do, but is there anything I CAN'T learn online for significantly less? And what about online colleges?

[margomaps]

All right, then with all this talk of whether college is worth it... Is it possible for one to succeed without one? And correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't college more about that paper than about actually learning? I learn more on the internet than at school, WAY more. They don't teach the difference between SDR and DDR SDRAM, the difference between an ARM x86, 6502, x86-64, EM64T, etc... In college they probably do, but is there anything I CAN'T learn online for significantly less? And what about online colleges?

For a specialized technical skill like you're talking about, you might consider a technical/vocational school.  I realize sometimes there's a stigma attached with these types of schools, like they're for the people who "couldn't hack it" in college or something like that.  That could be the case for some people -- I don't know.  But if your goal is to learn a lot of specialized knowledge about computer hardware (and perhaps system administration), maybe look into it.  There are also a variety of technical certifications that could be quite valuable in building a career.  I know Microsoft has a series of courses/certifications that often pop up on people's resumes.  At least do a little research down that avenue before deciding on what to do next.

I personally thought college was a pretty great experience.  I learned some things that would have been pretty difficult to learn on my own.  I had fun in college too.  But was it all worth the cost?  I don't know.  Certainly the degree qualified me for a high paying job that I wouldn't have had otherwise, but who knows what would have happened had I gone down another path?  Maybe I would have gone into business for myself and be better off than I am today?  Sorry, this probably isn't helping you much. 

[techforumz]

All right, then with all this talk of whether college is worth it... Is it possible for one to succeed without one? And correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't college more about that paper than about actually learning? I learn more on the internet than at school, WAY more. They don't teach the difference between SDR and DDR SDRAM, the difference between an ARM x86, 6502, x86-64, EM64T, etc... In college they probably do, but is there anything I CAN'T learn online for significantly less? And what about online colleges?

For a specialized technical skill like you're talking about, you might consider a technical/vocational school.  I realize sometimes there's a stigma attached with these types of schools, like they're for the people who "couldn't hack it" in college or something like that.  That could be the case for some people -- I don't know.  But if your goal is to learn a lot of specialized knowledge about computer hardware (and perhaps system administration), maybe look into it.  There are also a variety of technical certifications that could be quite valuable in building a career.  I know Microsoft has a series of courses/certifications that often pop up on people's resumes.  At least do a little research down that avenue before deciding on what to do next.

I personally thought college was a pretty great experience.  I learned some things that would have been pretty difficult to learn on my own.  I had fun in college too.  But was it all worth the cost?  I don't know.  Certainly the degree qualified me for a high paying job that I wouldn't have had otherwise, but who knows what would have happened had I gone down another path?  Maybe I would have gone into business for myself and be better off than I am today?  Sorry, this probably isn't helping you much. 

Perhaps I'm being entirely impractical, but I would like to start my own business and sell custom PCs, and repair PCs, setup linux networks (yup, I'm a non-M$ guy), etc... The problem is, that licenses are expensive, no? And don't I need to send some special sort of sales tax (in most places.) furthermore, the IRS is currently assaulting those aspiring to start our business, dependent upon others, but decentralized, and besides, couldn't I trade metals, something untaxable AND valuable?!?! But it probably looks good for the business for me to have a degree of some kind.

[margomaps]

Perhaps I'm being entirely impractical, but I would like to start my own business and sell custom PCs, and repair PCs, setup linux networks (yup, I'm a non-M$ guy), etc... The problem is, that licenses are expensive, no? And don't I need to send some special sort of sales tax (in most places.) furthermore, the IRS is currently assaulting those aspiring to start our business, dependent upon others, but decentralized, and besides, couldn't I trade metals, something untaxable AND valuable?!?! But it probably looks good for the business for me to have a degree of some kind.

I'm not sure what kind of license you're talking about.  If you're talking about a "business license" or some such...then no.  Not in NH.  For some businesses, you just need to put a sign in your yard.  Others might have a small license fee, but I do mean small ($100 maybe?).

Sales tax?  Not in NH.

IRS assaulting business owners?  Well, the IRS rules for business deductions and expenses can be complex, I'll grant you that.  But there are vast numbers of small business owners in NH, so it's likely not as hard as it might at first seem.

Trading metals...untaxable?  I assume you mean accepting payment in silver/gold/etc. for your services.  That's taxable.  Though a recent court case in NV (of all places!) involved a business owner paying his employees in silver eagles/gold eagles.  He and his employees only declared their wages as the face value of the coins ($1 and $20, respectively), rather than the market value of the gold content (roughly $15/$800 at the time).  The IRS sued them, but they weren't convicted.  Presumably the IRS is preparing to sue them again.

[techforumz]

Perhaps I'm being entirely impractical, but I would like to start my own business and sell custom PCs, and repair PCs, setup linux networks (yup, I'm a non-M$ guy), etc... The problem is, that licenses are expensive, no? And don't I need to send some special sort of sales tax (in most places.) furthermore, the IRS is currently assaulting those aspiring to start our business, dependent upon others, but decentralized, and besides, couldn't I trade metals, something untaxable AND valuable?!?! But it probably looks good for the business for me to have a degree of some kind.

I'm not sure what kind of license you're talking about.  If you're talking about a "business license" or some such...then no.  Not in NH.  For some businesses, you just need to put a sign in your yard.  Others might have a small license fee, but I do mean small ($100 maybe?).

Sales tax?  Not in NH.

IRS assaulting business owners?  Well, the IRS rules for business deductions and expenses can be complex, I'll grant you that.  But there are vast numbers of small business owners in NH, so it's likely not as hard as it might at first seem.

Trading metals...untaxable?  I assume you mean accepting payment in silver/gold/etc. for your services.  That's taxable.  Though a recent court case in NV (of all places!) involved a business owner paying his employees in silver eagles/gold eagles.  He and his employees only declared their wages as the face value of the coins ($1 and $20, respectively), rather than the market value of the gold content (roughly $15/$800 at the time).  The IRS sued them, but they weren't convicted.  Presumably the IRS is preparing to sue them again.

Okay, metals taxable, got it. What isn't? Milk, eggs, computer junk, what!?!? Business license $100? I though it was in the range of a new car. All the better, no sense griping about what isn't bad... About the IRS thing, do business owners pay more income tax than standard people, and should I consider going "insurrection" ?

[Fishercat]

...Business license $100? I though it was in the range of a new car. All the better, no sense griping about what isn't bad...

Registering a Limited Liability Company with the state is $100 per year.  Some "licenses" are required beyond that for some businesses (see Manicurist protests elsewhere) but not all.   I don't think you need one to do computer repair, but you might want to research it for yourself.

About the IRS thing, do business owners pay more income tax than standard people, and should I consider going "insurrection" ?

(For NH taxes)
Standard people (i.e. employees) pay 0% tax on wage income.   (There is a tax on interest and dividends, over a threshold).
Business owners pay something less than 1% on profit, once it is over a threshold.   Something like $50-60,000 per year?

[MaineShark]

Okay, metals taxable, got it. What isn't? Milk, eggs, computer junk, what!?!?

Theoretically, you are "supposed to" report any income, regardless of the type.  Theoretically...

Business license $100? I though it was in the range of a new car.

No business licenses in NH.  You can pay $50 if you want to register a trade name with the State, which can help you avoid getting sued if someone else comes up with the same name, and decides to fight you about using it (you can prove that you used it first, as far as the State is concerned).

If you don't care about that, you can literally just announce that you are in business.  You don't need anyone's permission.

About the IRS thing, do business owners pay more income tax than standard people, and should I consider going "insurrection" ?

Small-business owners do pay more, percentage-wise.  We also have more deductions available.  For example, what percentage of your house do you use for business-related purposes (everything from office space, to the space taken up by your shelves of technical manuals, to the space you use for storing equipment)?  Do you have coffee or snacks available for customers?  Do you have a sign on your car, advertising your business (then every mile you drive is business-related, as advertising)?  If you have a good tax accountant, you can end up paying nothing at all.

NH does have a business income tax on any profits exceeding $50k, but again, with the deductions available you can typically file and still pay nothing.  Paying no income taxes and also not going to jail is a good combination, in my book.

Joe

[margomaps]

Theoretically, you are "supposed to" report any income, regardless of the type.  Theoretically...

You got that right.  I was pretty surprised/alarmed to read that the IRS taxes bartering based on the market value of the goods exchanging hands.  So, I give you some BBQ in exchange for some work on my heating system, and we're supposed to claim the dollar value of the labor and BBQ as income on our tax forms, respectively.

This is from http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html.

I really don't understand this.  If I just pay you in cash for the labor on the heating system, I can at least understand why the IRS would consider that cash to be "income" for you.  But if I pay you with the equivalent amount of pork ribs, you're supposed to declare the value of the pork ribs as income, AND I'm supposed to declare the value of the labor as income to me?  That's exactly how I read it.  Double-dipping, anyone?  To this day I figure I must be missing something when I read that IRS page.  It can't be as insane as it appears...can it?

[techforumz]

Okay, metals taxable, got it. What isn't? Milk, eggs, computer junk, what!?!?

Theoretically, you are "supposed to" report any income, regardless of the type.  Theoretically...

Business license $100? I though it was in the range of a new car.

No business licenses in NH.  You can pay $50 if you want to register a trade name with the State, which can help you avoid getting sued if someone else comes up with the same name, and decides to fight you about using it (you can prove that you used it first, as far as the State is concerned).

If you don't care about that, you can literally just announce that you are in business.  You don't need anyone's permission.

About the IRS thing, do business owners pay more income tax than standard people, and should I consider going "insurrection" ?

Small-business owners do pay more, percentage-wise.  We also have more deductions available.  For example, what percentage of your house do you use for business-related purposes (everything from office space, to the space taken up by your shelves of technical manuals, to the space you use for storing equipment)?  Do you have coffee or snacks available for customers?  Do you have a sign on your car, advertising your business (then every mile you drive is business-related, as advertising)?  If you have a good tax accountant, you can end up paying nothing at all.

NH does have a business income tax on any profits exceeding $50k, but again, with the deductions available you can typically file and still pay nothing.  Paying no income taxes and also not going to jail is a good combination, in my book.

Joe

Okay, that's good. So, in essence, I could pay no taxes, minus accountant fees. And I wouldn't have to hire a guard to keep my house safe from the IRS. Though I should really put a motion sensor and always-on camera, that way I'd have proof.

And about the BBQ thing... I think it is that insane, to keep people using the worthless monetary system known as dollars.

[JAC]

The real question is: will the American people vote for someone without a college education?  If they will then I don't need to go to college either.   I was always more interested in college for the prestige that goes along with it; I never actually expected to learn any more from a professor than I could just learn by myself.  But don't you think that not attending college could come back to bite you in the ass when it comes down to public opinion?  If you're interested in office, that is.

[John Edward Mercier]

The real question is: will the American people vote for someone without a college education?  If they will then I don't need to go to college either.   I was always more interested in college for the prestige that goes along with it; I never actually expected to learn any more from a professor than I could just learn by myself.  But don't you think that not attending college could come back to bite you in the ass when it comes down to public opinion?  If you're interested in office, that is.

Depends on the office you wish to hold.

Theoretically, you are "supposed to" report any income, regardless of the type.  Theoretically...

You got that right.  I was pretty surprised/alarmed to read that the IRS taxes bartering based on the market value of the goods exchanging hands.  So, I give you some BBQ in exchange for some work on my heating system, and we're supposed to claim the dollar value of the labor and BBQ as income on our tax forms, respectively.

This is from http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc420.html.

I really don't understand this.  If I just pay you in cash for the labor on the heating system, I can at least understand why the IRS would consider that cash to be "income" for you.  But if I pay you with the equivalent amount of pork ribs, you're supposed to declare the value of the pork ribs as income, AND I'm supposed to declare the value of the labor as income to me?  That's exactly how I read it.  Double-dipping, anyone?  To this day I figure I must be missing something when I read that IRS page.  It can't be as insane as it appears...can it?

If Joe is a heating contractor by trade... he would report it as income. You've paid for the labor, and unless it deductible really wouldn't get reported... same as if you used cash. If Joe isn't a heating contractor by trade, then its just a friend helping a friend and sharing a meal.
But as Joe stated, this is theoretical...