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Author Topic: Lauren Canario snatched by Milford PD  (Read 59520 times)

John Edward Mercier

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Re: Lauren Canario snatched by Milford PD
« Reply #195 on: November 11, 2007, 07:59:18 am »

Lost pensions? Enron didn't have a pension plan...

You really should read more before you put your foot in your mouth:



Thousands of Enron employees and investors lost all their savings, children's college funds, and pensions when Enron collapsed. A lawsuit on the behalf of a group of Enron's shareholders has been filed against Enron executives and directors. This lawsuit accuses twenty-nine of these executives and directors of insider trading and misleading the public.

Because the 401(k) plan is a defined contribution plan, there was no PBGC insurance and employees lost the money they invested in Enron stock. They could only sue those considered a fiduciary for breach of their duty of care based on ERISA Section 404.

The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation is attempting to cover some and possibly all of this.

The Enron scandal in 2001 demonstrated one potential problem with defined contribution plans; the company had strongly encouraged its workers to invest their 401(k) plans in their employer itself, violating primary investment guidelines about diversification. When Enron went bankrupt, many workers lost not just their jobs but also most of the value of their retirement plans.

and you stated that investors should not have limited liability, but bare the full risk. You simply can't have it both ways.

No, what I said was a _proportional_ responsibility.  And that's a two way street, which also involves the ability to oversee said actions done in your name/etc, so this isn't an example of the solution at work, but an example of the problem: they had no recourse, nor recompense for the actions of those who committed this fraud.  If they were hurt fiscally, they should be able to sue those directly responsible for the fraud - and seek damages.

I have read. And understood. The pensions were INVESTORS in Enron, not an Enron pension plan. The employees had stock options... some in their retirement accounts (401k). But all are investors.
Under your supposition the trustees of the pension plan should be sued for a bad investment... but then again a pension plan is a type of corporation and thus would not exist in your utopia. Nor would the PBGC.
The 401k participants had the opportunity to chose their investment. And the individuals that perpetrated the fraud have been punished.

If a private individual, rather than a corporation, commits a fraudulent act costing you... once the courts take all they have... even if you are not made whole... what difference would this make.


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Re: Lauren Canario snatched by Milford PD
« Reply #196 on: November 11, 2007, 08:15:46 am »

Aren't you guys getting a little off-topic?

Hhehe, yes, but at least we haven't devolved into discussing geolibertarianism.  >:D

At it's core you are discussing the same thing - privilege without any obligation to those you exclude.

Ding Ding Ding - Bill Grennon alert! Warning Warning Danger Danger.  Bill, why do you keep changing usernames/aliases?


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Re: Lauren Canario snatched by Milford PD
« Reply #197 on: November 15, 2007, 02:29:03 pm »

Papers Please Citizen

Free Lauren Canario video
New Hampshire Underground activists rally in support to free Lauren Canario from jail after her arrest for driving without papers. Her refusal to speak landed her in solitary confinement for an indefinite period.

Video featuring pumpkin art display... outreach at the Keene Pumpkin Festival.
Free Lauren V protest at the jail... candles, V masks and radicals in the dark.
Interview with Lauren... Why did she do it?

Arrest video

Previous mute encounter with NH State Police, kind of funny his reactions.

Free Lauren Canario website
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