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Author Topic: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)  (Read 22037 times)

MrsWindyCity

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Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« on: September 26, 2007, 11:06:25 pm »

Hello all,

Over the past few weeks, I have done some research trying to find an appropiate party to vote for. Alas, I discovered that the only political party that truly aligns with my beliefs is the Libertarian party. I was relieved to find that there are same-thinking people out there.

I also discovered this site about the FSP, and I am very interested. To give you all some information, I am 21 and my husband is 25. We have a 15 month old daughter and I am in college working for my bachelor's in finance and my CPA. My husband is more of a manual laborer; he did not complete college and he works as a machine operator in a warehouse. I talked to him about moving to NH; he is pretty passive about such things, and I am not sure he quite understands what I am getting so worked up about. He's very sweet, and quite agreeable, though.

The reason for my post is that we are from IL (near Chicago), so obviously it is pretty diverse. I am black, and my husband is half black and half white. He is concerned that people in a state with 96% or so whites may not be so tolerant of us.  We can pretend that racism and discrimination don't exist, but they sadly still do. On the other hand, we are not the kind of people who cry "racial foul" at the slightest offense or perception thereof.

Basically, I want to know are there cities with more diversity? Does it even matter? Will my husband be able to find work in a warehouse, or in auto mechanics (which he would like to eventually persue)? Please be honest and tell me first hand experiences and your own opinions; I promise not to be offended. I just need info to make an informed decision before I persuade my hubby to make this move with me.

Also, what is the average cost of renting housing vs buying (we'd prefer to live in a larger city)? Thanks for your help in advance.
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aardvark307

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2007, 05:08:21 am »

Obviously I can only speak for myself, but yours truly spent 21 years in the Navy. No one group or gender has a monopoly on either virtue or vice. The battle is too much uphill to worry about irrelevant issues like the color of ones skin. The system is an equal opportunity oppressor.

All I am concerned about is that my neighbor is a decent human being who respects me as much as he/she wants me to respect them.
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MrsWindyCity

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2007, 09:02:25 am »

Well, I am not saying that I won't respect my neighbors, or that they won't respect me. I really just need to know if there are going to be tensions because we may be seen as outsiders. Even with FSP participators; are there any black people? Not that it would make me more comfortable per se, but I wonder if there has been any problems. I want to be able to have more info before I ask my husband to make this move with me, because it is something I really believe in and want to support.

Thanks ;)
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Ron Helwig

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2007, 09:12:40 am »

I have not seen any evidence of racism here. Not to say that there isn't any, but I haven't seen it. Even when joking around with people, it just never seems to come up.

I don't think you'll have problems. I do know of one black FSP'er (Fred), and he is just one of us. Someone told me that RattyDog was black, but I just think she's hot.  ;D

The job market is pretty good out here for labor. Two of my roommates work in factories and they seem to be starving for good help.
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LibertyforLife

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2007, 09:22:10 am »

I don't observe arbitrary lines like the color of a person's skin.

Evil isn't confined to one color or another just as good isn't either. Everyone should be accepted or rejected based on their individuality and not because they belong to one group or another based on anything.
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margomaps

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2007, 09:33:08 am »

I'd be shocked if you experienced anything but a sense of inclusion amongst the vast majority of FSP members.  I suppose there could be a couple bad apples in any group that gets this large, but from what I've seen, as long as you're on board with advancing liberty, you'll fit right in.

As for NH as a whole, I can't say.  As you pointed out, the population is overwhelmingly white.  There are probably many people -- especially in the smaller communities -- who have had almost no exposure to colors and cultures other than their own.  I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find a bit of xenophobia there.

The biggest cities in NH, and the most culturally diverse, are in the southern part of the state.  Manchester in particular seems to come closest to matching the description of what you're looking for.  Plus, it has a good contingent of FSP and native liberty activists already living there.  I'd recommend looking into Manchester, perhaps scoping out the job opportunities for you and your husband, and seeing whether it's the kind of place you might be happy.

Good luck!   :)
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margomaps

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2007, 10:03:16 am »

Oh, and about your housing question...

Generally speaking, housing isn't cheap in NH.  On the other hand, it's cheaper than a lot of other places.  Chicago is such a huge area that I can't begin to guess how NH might compare to it.  In or around Manchester, I'm sure you can find some bargains.  I've found http://www.nneren.com to be a very useful site to browse properties.

Also bear in mind that NH doesn't have a state income tax.  And it doesn't have a general sales tax (there is a sales tax on restaurants and hotels though).  I've found that my cost of living is significantly cheaper than it was around the Baltimore area.  Probably about 25% cheaper overall.
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2007, 11:09:38 am »

Welcome! ;D

The FSP is incredibly inclusive. Here, for example is how we dealt this year with attempts by racist groups to infiltrate one of New Hampshire’s pro-liberty events. As for racism among the general population, I haven’t seen any. There have definitely been no overt acts of racism that I’ve seen, but if you’re worried about more subtle stuff like your neighbors giving you the cold shoulder or refusing to associate with you; it’s hard to notice stuff like that unless you’re on the receiving end of it, and I’m white, so I couldn’t say one way or the other. People in New Hampshire tend to be a bit less friendly than in other areas, anyway (we call it “flinty” here), so don’t jump to conclusions about any gruff attitudes you may encounter.

Manchester is your best bet both for biggest and most diverse city, and I think Manchester is probably the biggest hotbed of freestater activity nowadays, except perhaps Keene. I actually live in an area that is predominantly Hispanic and African (as in recent African immigrants, not African-Americans). Here are some apartment listings to give you an idea of the cost of apartments in Manchester.
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MrsWindyCity

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2007, 11:39:18 am »

Thanks for the responses!

We currently pay 879.00 per month for two bed, two bath 40 miles from Chicago. An apartment, mind you. I have no objections to paying up to 1200/month for renting, as long as there are 2 bedrooms. May be a little more, depending on how the tax decrease will increase our expendable income. Plus, possibly  a pay increase. From what I have been reading, Manchester sounds good to me too.

Forrest:
I completely agree. I am just hoping to find people in the FSP and NH who feel the same way.

Ron:
What type of factories? Like assembly work? Do you know about how much they make?

J'raxis:
Thanks so much. I appreciate your viewpoint. Trust me, I am used to people being "flinty", as you call it (lol), so I promise not to assume they are plotting to hang me  ;)

Thanks for the links, too.


ETA: Oh, yeah baby....we can definitely afford this! Some of these are really nice. We pay 879.00, and I HATE my apartment.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2007, 11:44:02 am by MrsWindyCity »
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2007, 01:16:07 pm »

We currently pay 879.00 per month for two bed, two bath 40 miles from Chicago. An apartment, mind you. I have no objections to paying up to 1200/month for renting, as long as there are 2 bedrooms. May be a little more, depending on how the tax decrease will increase our expendable income. Plus, possibly  a pay increase. From what I have been reading, Manchester sounds good to me too.

You will easily find 2BRs in the Manchester area for $700–800.

ETA: Oh, yeah baby....we can definitely afford this! Some of these are really nice. We pay 879.00, and I HATE my apartment.

You should come over to our other forum where most people hang out. It has a moving/housing board, too. And when you’ve decided on a place and a move-in date, add a link to the calendar over there and people will show up and help out with the move. Stories of other people we’ve helped move in:—

http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=9047.0 (pics)
http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10170.0
http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10962.0
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JasonPSorens

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2007, 01:25:57 pm »

Hey, one of our Board members is mixed-race! I think on balance, the FSP is more diverse than is NH, but some parts of NH are more diverse than others.
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sfultong

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2007, 05:41:14 pm »

What is "mixed-race" anyway?  I don't think many people are really pure of race unless they're really inbred.

I think most white people consider others to be "black" if they aren't white (or asian or hispanic).  So really if you're the least bit brown, you're probably considered black.

And on the subject of racism, well... I think even the well-intentioned have bits of racism in them.  The way I'd break it down is people are good if they try not to go by their instincts in judging others by their appearances, and they're bad if they just go by instinct and are close-minded.

There's a rather disturbing article that my friend sent me recently:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1467-9477.2007.00176.x

But I'm pretty optimistic that, with similar political and social goals, we can all live happily together.
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Keyser Soce

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2007, 07:53:03 pm »

I haven't made the move yet so I can't speak for the folks already there. I do plan on arriving spring of 08 and personally would love to see you there. My personal opinion on racism is that it's an immature propensity to blame others for one's own problems. I've seen whites blame blacks, blacks blame whites, and just about everyone blame the jews. Here in Arizona the big thing is blame all of the problems on the mexicans. Anyone who subscribes to a philosophy of self ownership and individual responsiblility wouldn't blame another person for their problems much less an entire race.
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J’raxis 270145

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2007, 08:28:41 pm »

I haven't made the move yet so I can't speak for the folks already there. I do plan on arriving spring of 08 and personally would love to see you there. My personal opinion on racism is that it's an immature propensity to blame others for one's own problems. I've seen whites blame blacks, blacks blame whites, and just about everyone blame the jews. Here in Arizona the big thing is blame all of the problems on the mexicans. Anyone who subscribes to a philosophy of self ownership and individual responsiblility wouldn't blame another person for their problems much less an entire race.

“Us vs. them” is a natural human trait, but only on the family and clan level. Evolutionarily speaking, it’s actually beneficial, back when human beings were nomadic and different clans were often stepping on each other’s turf in an effort to hunt and forage.

Modern racism is just one of the many ways in which those who wish to control societies have exploited this mistrust of outsiders for their own benefit. That Mexicans are whom people point at in Arizona is no surprise; they’re the most numerous, visible, and convenient “Other” that the white government can point at when it wants to distract people.
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freedomroad

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Re: Can black people come too? (Please read and advise!)
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2007, 10:29:38 pm »

Hello MrsWindyCity,

Historically, New England is known for being tolerant of race, maybe more than any other area of the nation.  I am not saying it is, I don’t know as I have only spent a total of a few months of my life in New England (though I only overheard 1 race related joke during that whole time). 

As for my family, they are mostly from New England (and upstate NY) and the South.  No one in my family from New England is racist (in fact my cousin in Vermont dated a black boy when she was in high school and the family never said anything to her) and yet a great deal of my family from the South is racist.  This, even though, most of my family in the South lives in areas where whites only make up 60%-40% of the population and my family in New England lives in areas that are 85%-95% white.  So, percentage of the population that is of race X is not the best indicator to the presence of racism, in my experience.

I think you will be more than happy in the Free State of New Hampshire.  Nashua and Manchester seem to be quite diverse, as are parts of extreme northern MA (MA/NH border towns), and Boston.  There is a large variety of ethnic restaurants and grocery stores in the areas, also.

To answer another of your questions, in my time with the FSP I have met 3 African-America FSP members at past FSP Porcupine Freedom Festivals and recruit two African-America Friends of the FSP (two of my good friends).
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